"Alcohol is necessary for a man so that he can have a good opinion of himself, undisturbed be the facts." Finley Peter Dunne link
Yes, the Deebs are gluttons for punishment. Dee decided to revisit the Perry Noble kerfuffle when Perry chose to go on a public Facebook rant. It is directed at the leadership of his former church after they decided to let the world know that Noble has no business speaking in the pulpit. Strangely enough, although I am no fan of NewSpring and the nonsense that goes on over there, I believe they got this one right. I know that Dr James Duncan will agree with me when I say that that church has been a mess for a long time. But, Noble drew people and bucks, so he got the green light for his antics. However, it got so bad that even the money wasn't worth putting up with him.
A 2016 TWW analysis of the Perry Noble alcohol mess
Please read this post that I wrote in 2016 Perry Noble’s Problems Are Just Beginning: An Analysis. It is informative in a number of ways. I provided some background for determining whether someone has an alcohol problem. I also included my background in understanding alcohol treatment and introduced those in my family who were alcoholics.
I presented a number of longstanding problems at NewSpring that TWW had covered in previous years. Here are a few examples.
1. The worst case of church abuse that I have ever heard about was at NewSpring Church.
If you have never read Holy Rage at the Spring on the Pajama Pages by Dr. James Duncan, you cannot begin to understand how outrageous the leadership acted. To this day, I cannot look at Perry Noble's face and not feel sick to my stomach. How could anyone attending the church read this and not realize that something was very wrong at NewSpring?
Here is a synopsis by Tom Rich.
"One interesting twist in this story that I'll leave you with, and that you'll see: the anonymity in this case was NOT the blogger, but a man on the church's side, an employee of the church, who went after the blogger anonymously to teach him a lesson to try to get him fired by sending a phony resignation letter to his employer, to paint the blogger as pervert, a homosexual, his kid as a cross dresser, and to make him fear for his family's life by actual threats against him…all in the name of God to punish the blogger for the audacity in criticizing a mega church pastor."
3. The infamous jackass statement.
The controversial comments were made at a 2009 conference called Unleash, an annual leadership event conducted by Noble's church, NewSpring.
During his session, Noble told pastors that "the person that always screams I want to go deeper" is "the jackass in the church."
"I tell people, you're only as deep as the last person you served," the megachurch pastor stated then. "Deep? Most Christians, John Maxwell said it, are educated way beyond their level of obedience anyway.
Do the pastors and church leaders at NewSpring actually believe this is Scriptural teaching of the tithe as presented in the New Testament?
5. The Ten Commandments debacle
This one even hit the secular news media.
"Instead of Ten Commandments that you have to keep if you're going to be a follower of Jesus, they're actually 10 promises that you can receive when you say yes to Jesus," Noble said.
He then proceeded to rephrase each of the commandments as a promise. The first commandment, "You shall have no other gods before me," became, "You do not have to live in constant disappointment anymore."
6. You suck as a human being if you don't like the music.
I learned of Perry Noble from Tom Rich of FBC Jax Watchdog. Here is a link to an illuminating post on Noble titled Perry Noble to NewSpring Members Who Don't Like the Music: "You Officially Suck as a Human Being."
7. The bizarre Perry Noble tweetathon
By the time this incident happened, the church leaders should have realized they had entered Crazyville. In NewSpring megachurch pastor Perry Noble taunts his twitter followers over South Carolina football, a smart observer compiled a record of Noble's strange behavior on Twitter. If you go to the link, you can marvel along with everyone else who observed this in real time.
It quickly devolves into a Proverbs-verse-citing dick-swinging contest with planks and specks being invoked and Perry calling people idiots, then ends with him saying how great church will be the next day.
Does Perry Noble actually acknowledge that he is an alcoholic?
I need the help of our readers on this one. I have read many articles on Perry Noble and his misuse of alcohol. I have been unable to find any personal admission that he recognizes that he is an alcoholic or, in more simple terms that many alcoholics I have known prefer to use, "a drunk." Does anyone know of any post in which he utilizes specific terminology that he understand that he is an alocholic?
He slid into over use of alcohol…in his opinion? Is he saying others might disagree with him? He tends to use language like this.
“In my opinion, the bible (sic) does not prohibit the use of alcohol, but it does prohibit drunkenness and intoxication,” Noble wrote to his congregation of 18 years. “I never had a problem drinking alcohol socially, but in the past year or so I have allowed myself to slide into, in my opinion, the overuse of alcohol.
In fact, he has appeared to blame his alcoholism on stress. From our 2016 post.
1. Noble places the blame for his drinking on stress.
"However, in my obsession to do everything possible to reach 100,000 and beyond – it has come at a personal cost in my own life and created a strain on my marriage. "
One of the first steps in dealing with alcoholism is to admit one is an alcoholic and not to place the blame on any outside situation. There are many people in the world who live a stressful life. Look at Dr Ben Carson's life as a pediatric neurosurgeon, performing novel brain surgeries. Look at police, soldiers, and families with disabled children. Shouldn't they all be alcohol abusers? Are all pastors of growing megachurches alcohol abusers?
Please read the whole post for an overview of our concerns on how he has discussed his problem with alcohol.
Fast forward a year-July 2017. So, how are things going?
NewSpring Church recently declared that Perry Noble is still not fit to be in the pulpit.
On July 24,2017, the Christian Post posted Perry Noble Still Biblically Unfit to Preach, NewSpring Leaders Say. Apparently Noble had been accepting preaching engagements in churches such as Steven "Palace" Furtick's Elevation Church. His NewSpring fan club wanted to know why he couldn't come and speak at their church.
"We have been asked why Perry can preach at other churches but not at NewSpring. We cannot speak for other churches and how they make decisions. For us, Perry currently does not meet the biblical qualifications of a pastor, teacher, shepherd," NewSpring Teaching Pastor Clayton King told the megachurch in what was described as a family meeting last Friday.
Pay attention to this part of NewSpring's statement. I have highlighted a few items.
"Some have questioned our decision to remove Perry especially in light of his return to preaching and speaking. He's been vocal about how he feels, that we didn't reach out to him in the days following his release. We understand how that has caused some to question whether we offered forgiveness and grace to our friend. The leaders on this stage have completely forgiven Perry," he said to applause.
King said since Noble's firing, he and others from the church have been reaching out to Noble but said their efforts have been repeatedly rejected.
"The truth is many people did reach out and we desired to spend time with him. In most instances, he declined. I have personally reached out to Perry consistently for 13 months and he has declined to meet with me," he said.
Let me get this straight. Perry Noble chose to drink himself into hot water, losing his church and his family, and now he is mad at the church for not doing enough to reach out to him? He allegedly spent 30 days in an Arizona treatment program and now has a counselor. Does this sound like a man who is seeking forgiveness and making amends to those he hurt, a key aspect in the Alcoholics Anonymous 12 Step Program?
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Perry Noble went into an all out rant on Facebook apparently incensed by the statement of NewSpring leaders.
So much for amends. Boy, howdy, is he mad! This was posted on his public Facebook page. It is important to understand that alcoholics lie and everything that he says should be questioned. (The audio keeps cutting out in the embed so if you have problems, just click on the link above link.)
Observations on the rant
- Why does he refuse to meet with Clayton King, the senior pastor of NewSpring? Dos this sound like a guy who is attempting to make amends and make restitution? Perry has some secrets.
- He claims that the leadership of NewSpring is not being honest yet we are supposed to believe the he is being honest with all of his *facts.* Why should we?
- This sounds like it is all about the bucks. Noble says his "livelihood " is being threatened. By this he appears to mean that the leadership is threatening his ability to speak at other churches. Uh oh-sound a bit legal to me…My suggestion to Perry is this. Do what another pastor did who is a far better theologian and preacher than you. He sinned, rather seriously. Stepped down and went to work at Home Depot for a few years. He didn't look at his preaching as his ability to make big bucks.
- Perry is sooooo hurt by what the church said. He needs to get over himself and understand that he is the one who did the hurting. He has a long way to go before he can pull the *poor me* card.
- He claims they are questioning his repentance. I listened very carefully to this video rant. I am questioning his contrition myself.
- He is so excited abut the ministry opportunities being presented to him. Why do I think he sees $$$ signs? Oh yeah, here is a link to his new enterprise The Growth Company. He is going to be helping churches to grow…Seriously?
- Was anyone else a little weirded out that he had dates and times for when he met with people over the last year?
- Oh yeah- and he claims "The best is yet to come." So, his time at NewSpring, prior to his alcoholic binge, was not his best? Is he saying he never gave his best in the ministry? I am so sick and tired of this ridiculous Christian meme that I may ban it at TWW.
- He is upset that his motives for ministry were called into question. Why? Noble is a sinner (as are we all). As one of my former pastors, one of the good guys, said, "Even on my best days my motives are mixed." Give it up, Noble. We are questoning your motives.
- Noble says that he never met the qualifications for leadership at any one time while he served as a pastor. So why is he upset when people question his motives?
- Did something seem off about Noble's affect during this rant?
Is there more going on with Noble than just the drinking? For sure!
The Independent posted NewSpring Church founder returns to pulpit, in Charlotte on 2/5/17. Look at this statement by NewSpring leader Shane Duffy. There were *other* worrisome issues. Even Noble's wife agreed with the decision to fire him over all of these issues, not just the alcohol.
When NewSpring officials announced Noble's removal on July 10, Executive Pastor Shane Duffey said Noble "had made unfortunate choices and decisions that have caused much concern" among board members, who had confronted Noble more than about his use of alcohol."
He also said Noble's wife, Lucretia, was "100 percent behind this decision" to fire Noble.
In a statement read by Duffey, Noble said that he had "allowed myself to slide into an overuse of alcohol" and that the job had "created a strain" on his marriage.
It appears that Noble planned to return to the ministry rather soon after his treatment ended, about 6 weeks or so after leaving NewSpring.
After his ouster from NewSpring Church in Anderson, S.C. – one of the biggest churches in the country – he spent 30 days in an Arizona treatment center and worked with a psychologist and ordained pastor on plans to return to ministry, according to the (Anderson) Independent Mail.
I have a question. Why did Perry Noble travel all the way to Arizona for alcohol treatment? Doesn't South Carolina have good treatment centers? What are those other problems? For example, could Perry Noble have a serious anger problem? Could he be abusive in other ways?
TWW is concerned for Noble's wife, Lucretia, and their daughter.
According to Noble's rant, he has been sober for almost one year, if he is telling the truth. His wife and daughter chose not to live with him over a year ago but I am not sure he understands that he is the one who chose to leave his wife and daughter.
Let's look at this public exchange on his Facebook page.
A commenter said something that ended up being rather profound. I wonder if he knew that when he left it.
Perry Noble, not one known for deep introspection which may be part of his problem, jumped down his throat.
Think about it. The moment that Perry Noble picked up the bottle and engaged in other unnamed *issues,* he chose to leave his wife and daughter. His wife may have stopped living in the same home with him but Perry was the one who left the marriage. None of us can imagine the hell that his wife and daughter endured in that home.
Let's look at my now 88 year old mother whose father was an alcoholic. She is still suffering long term effects due to his actions. He eventually stopped drinking when she became an adult. Even so, she has life long PTSD due to his actions when drinking. This is from my 2016 post.
My mother's father was an alcoholic until he became sober for the last few years of his life. He was drunk as my mother and siblings were growing up. He never beat them. However, he would be angry when he returned home drunk and would throw chairs and dishes around the house. My mother and her siblings would squeeze into a tiny closet for hours. My mom said it was suffocating.
Long term effects on the family:
My mother is prone to panic attacks when she is in small spaces and large crowds, even now at the age of 87.
Noble's wife apparently has not returned to the home in the 11 months since he allegedly became sober. Once again, from Perry Noble Still Biblically Unfit to Preach, NewSpring Leaders Say:
(ed. The lead pastor) He further noted that Noble's wife, Lucretia, desires to be reconciled with her husband but that is also yet to happen.
"Many of us have walked with Lucretia over the past year and she is 100 percent committed to Perry, their marriage and desires reconciliation," King said.
I think that there are good reasons that Noble's wife, along with their daughter, has not returned to the now supposedly sober Noble. I do not believe that Lucretia should be coerced into returning home because "It is the Biblical thing to do." Instead the wellbeing of both Noble's wife and daughter should be of paramount importance. They have endured enough.
One thing is certain. There is much more that is unknown this story and, in my opinion, Noble needs to stay out of the pulpit. That rant sealed the deal for me.