"Alcohol is necessary for a man so that he can have a good opinion of himself, undisturbed be the facts." Finley Peter Dunne link
Yes, the Deebs are gluttons for punishment. Dee decided to revisit the Perry Noble kerfuffle when Perry chose to go on a public Facebook rant. It is directed at the leadership of his former church after they decided to let the world know that Noble has no business speaking in the pulpit. Strangely enough, although I am no fan of NewSpring and the nonsense that goes on over there, I believe they got this one right. I know that Dr James Duncan will agree with me when I say that that church has been a mess for a long time. But, Noble drew people and bucks, so he got the green light for his antics. However, it got so bad that even the money wasn't worth putting up with him.
A 2016 TWW analysis of the Perry Noble alcohol mess
Please read this post that I wrote in 2016 Perry Noble’s Problems Are Just Beginning: An Analysis. It is informative in a number of ways. I provided some background for determining whether someone has an alcohol problem. I also included my background in understanding alcohol treatment and introduced those in my family who were alcoholics.
I presented a number of longstanding problems at NewSpring that TWW had covered in previous years. Here are a few examples.
1. The worst case of church abuse that I have ever heard about was at NewSpring Church.
If you have never read Holy Rage at the Spring on the Pajama Pages by Dr. James Duncan, you cannot begin to understand how outrageous the leadership acted. To this day, I cannot look at Perry Noble's face and not feel sick to my stomach. How could anyone attending the church read this and not realize that something was very wrong at NewSpring?
Here is a synopsis by Tom Rich.
"One interesting twist in this story that I'll leave you with, and that you'll see: the anonymity in this case was NOT the blogger, but a man on the church's side, an employee of the church, who went after the blogger anonymously to teach him a lesson to try to get him fired by sending a phony resignation letter to his employer, to paint the blogger as pervert, a homosexual, his kid as a cross dresser, and to make him fear for his family's life by actual threats against him…all in the name of God to punish the blogger for the audacity in criticizing a mega church pastor."
3. The infamous jackass statement.
The controversial comments were made at a 2009 conference called Unleash, an annual leadership event conducted by Noble's church, NewSpring.
During his session, Noble told pastors that "the person that always screams I want to go deeper" is "the jackass in the church."
"I tell people, you're only as deep as the last person you served," the megachurch pastor stated then. "Deep? Most Christians, John Maxwell said it, are educated way beyond their level of obedience anyway.
4. Perry Noble's NewSpring Church Promises to Refund Tithe If You Don't Get Blessing in 90 Days
Do the pastors and church leaders at NewSpring actually believe this is Scriptural teaching of the tithe as presented in the New Testament?
5. The Ten Commandments debacle
This one even hit the secular news media.
"Instead of Ten Commandments that you have to keep if you're going to be a follower of Jesus, they're actually 10 promises that you can receive when you say yes to Jesus," Noble said.
He then proceeded to rephrase each of the commandments as a promise. The first commandment, "You shall have no other gods before me," became, "You do not have to live in constant disappointment anymore."
6. You suck as a human being if you don't like the music.
I learned of Perry Noble from Tom Rich of FBC Jax Watchdog. Here is a link to an illuminating post on Noble titled Perry Noble to NewSpring Members Who Don't Like the Music: "You Officially Suck as a Human Being."
7. The bizarre Perry Noble tweetathon
By the time this incident happened, the church leaders should have realized they had entered Crazyville. In NewSpring megachurch pastor Perry Noble taunts his twitter followers over South Carolina football, a smart observer compiled a record of Noble's strange behavior on Twitter. If you go to the link, you can marvel along with everyone else who observed this in real time.
It quickly devolves into a Proverbs-verse-citing dick-swinging contest with planks and specks being invoked and Perry calling people idiots, then ends with him saying how great church will be the next day.
Does Perry Noble actually acknowledge that he is an alcoholic?
I need the help of our readers on this one. I have read many articles on Perry Noble and his misuse of alcohol. I have been unable to find any personal admission that he recognizes that he is an alcoholic or, in more simple terms that many alcoholics I have known prefer to use, "a drunk." Does anyone know of any post in which he utilizes specific terminology that he understand that he is an alocholic?
He slid into over use of alcohol…in his opinion? Is he saying others might disagree with him? He tends to use language like this.
“In my opinion, the bible (sic) does not prohibit the use of alcohol, but it does prohibit drunkenness and intoxication,” Noble wrote to his congregation of 18 years. “I never had a problem drinking alcohol socially, but in the past year or so I have allowed myself to slide into, in my opinion, the overuse of alcohol.
In fact, he has appeared to blame his alcoholism on stress. From our 2016 post.
1. Noble places the blame for his drinking on stress.
"However, in my obsession to do everything possible to reach 100,000 and beyond – it has come at a personal cost in my own life and created a strain on my marriage. "
One of the first steps in dealing with alcoholism is to admit one is an alcoholic and not to place the blame on any outside situation. There are many people in the world who live a stressful life. Look at Dr Ben Carson's life as a pediatric neurosurgeon, performing novel brain surgeries. Look at police, soldiers, and families with disabled children. Shouldn't they all be alcohol abusers? Are all pastors of growing megachurches alcohol abusers?
Please read the whole post for an overview of our concerns on how he has discussed his problem with alcohol.
Fast forward a year-July 2017. So, how are things going?
NewSpring Church recently declared that Perry Noble is still not fit to be in the pulpit.
On July 24,2017, the Christian Post posted Perry Noble Still Biblically Unfit to Preach, NewSpring Leaders Say. Apparently Noble had been accepting preaching engagements in churches such as Steven "Palace" Furtick's Elevation Church. His NewSpring fan club wanted to know why he couldn't come and speak at their church.
"We have been asked why Perry can preach at other churches but not at NewSpring. We cannot speak for other churches and how they make decisions. For us, Perry currently does not meet the biblical qualifications of a pastor, teacher, shepherd," NewSpring Teaching Pastor Clayton King told the megachurch in what was described as a family meeting last Friday.
Pay attention to this part of NewSpring's statement. I have highlighted a few items.
"Some have questioned our decision to remove Perry especially in light of his return to preaching and speaking. He's been vocal about how he feels, that we didn't reach out to him in the days following his release. We understand how that has caused some to question whether we offered forgiveness and grace to our friend. The leaders on this stage have completely forgiven Perry," he said to applause.
King said since Noble's firing, he and others from the church have been reaching out to Noble but said their efforts have been repeatedly rejected.
"The truth is many people did reach out and we desired to spend time with him. In most instances, he declined. I have personally reached out to Perry consistently for 13 months and he has declined to meet with me," he said.
Let me get this straight. Perry Noble chose to drink himself into hot water, losing his church and his family, and now he is mad at the church for not doing enough to reach out to him? He allegedly spent 30 days in an Arizona treatment program and now has a counselor. Does this sound like a man who is seeking forgiveness and making amends to those he hurt, a key aspect in the Alcoholics Anonymous 12 Step Program?
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Perry Noble went into an all out rant on Facebook apparently incensed by the statement of NewSpring leaders.
So much for amends. Boy, howdy, is he mad! This was posted on his public Facebook page. It is important to understand that alcoholics lie and everything that he says should be questioned. (The audio keeps cutting out in the embed so if you have problems, just click on the link above link.)
Observations on the rant
- Why does he refuse to meet with Clayton King, the senior pastor of NewSpring? Dos this sound like a guy who is attempting to make amends and make restitution? Perry has some secrets.
- He claims that the leadership of NewSpring is not being honest yet we are supposed to believe the he is being honest with all of his *facts.* Why should we?
- This sounds like it is all about the bucks. Noble says his "livelihood " is being threatened. By this he appears to mean that the leadership is threatening his ability to speak at other churches. Uh oh-sound a bit legal to me…My suggestion to Perry is this. Do what another pastor did who is a far better theologian and preacher than you. He sinned, rather seriously. Stepped down and went to work at Home Depot for a few years. He didn't look at his preaching as his ability to make big bucks.
- Perry is sooooo hurt by what the church said. He needs to get over himself and understand that he is the one who did the hurting. He has a long way to go before he can pull the *poor me* card.
- He claims they are questioning his repentance. I listened very carefully to this video rant. I am questioning his contrition myself.
- He is so excited abut the ministry opportunities being presented to him. Why do I think he sees $$$ signs? Oh yeah, here is a link to his new enterprise The Growth Company. He is going to be helping churches to grow…Seriously?
- Was anyone else a little weirded out that he had dates and times for when he met with people over the last year?
- Oh yeah- and he claims "The best is yet to come." So, his time at NewSpring, prior to his alcoholic binge, was not his best? Is he saying he never gave his best in the ministry? I am so sick and tired of this ridiculous Christian meme that I may ban it at TWW.
- He is upset that his motives for ministry were called into question. Why? Noble is a sinner (as are we all). As one of my former pastors, one of the good guys, said, "Even on my best days my motives are mixed." Give it up, Noble. We are questoning your motives.
- Noble says that he never met the qualifications for leadership at any one time while he served as a pastor. So why is he upset when people question his motives?
- Did something seem off about Noble's affect during this rant?
Is there more going on with Noble than just the drinking? For sure!
The Independent posted NewSpring Church founder returns to pulpit, in Charlotte on 2/5/17. Look at this statement by NewSpring leader Shane Duffy. There were *other* worrisome issues. Even Noble's wife agreed with the decision to fire him over all of these issues, not just the alcohol.
When NewSpring officials announced Noble's removal on July 10, Executive Pastor Shane Duffey said Noble "had made unfortunate choices and decisions that have caused much concern" among board members, who had confronted Noble more than about his use of alcohol."
He also said Noble's wife, Lucretia, was "100 percent behind this decision" to fire Noble.
In a statement read by Duffey, Noble said that he had "allowed myself to slide into an overuse of alcohol" and that the job had "created a strain" on his marriage.
It appears that Noble planned to return to the ministry rather soon after his treatment ended, about 6 weeks or so after leaving NewSpring.
After his ouster from NewSpring Church in Anderson, S.C. – one of the biggest churches in the country – he spent 30 days in an Arizona treatment center and worked with a psychologist and ordained pastor on plans to return to ministry, according to the (Anderson) Independent Mail.
I have a question. Why did Perry Noble travel all the way to Arizona for alcohol treatment? Doesn't South Carolina have good treatment centers? What are those other problems? For example, could Perry Noble have a serious anger problem? Could he be abusive in other ways?
TWW is concerned for Noble's wife, Lucretia, and their daughter.
According to Noble's rant, he has been sober for almost one year, if he is telling the truth. His wife and daughter chose not to live with him over a year ago but I am not sure he understands that he is the one who chose to leave his wife and daughter.
Let's look at this public exchange on his Facebook page.
A commenter said something that ended up being rather profound. I wonder if he knew that when he left it.
Perry Noble, not one known for deep introspection which may be part of his problem, jumped down his throat.
Think about it. The moment that Perry Noble picked up the bottle and engaged in other unnamed *issues,* he chose to leave his wife and daughter. His wife may have stopped living in the same home with him but Perry was the one who left the marriage. None of us can imagine the hell that his wife and daughter endured in that home.
Let's look at my now 88 year old mother whose father was an alcoholic. She is still suffering long term effects due to his actions. He eventually stopped drinking when she became an adult. Even so, she has life long PTSD due to his actions when drinking. This is from my 2016 post.
My mother's father was an alcoholic until he became sober for the last few years of his life. He was drunk as my mother and siblings were growing up. He never beat them. However, he would be angry when he returned home drunk and would throw chairs and dishes around the house. My mother and her siblings would squeeze into a tiny closet for hours. My mom said it was suffocating.
Long term effects on the family:
My mother is prone to panic attacks when she is in small spaces and large crowds, even now at the age of 87.
Noble's wife apparently has not returned to the home in the 11 months since he allegedly became sober. Once again, from Perry Noble Still Biblically Unfit to Preach, NewSpring Leaders Say:
(ed. The lead pastor) He further noted that Noble's wife, Lucretia, desires to be reconciled with her husband but that is also yet to happen.
"Many of us have walked with Lucretia over the past year and she is 100 percent committed to Perry, their marriage and desires reconciliation," King said.
I think that there are good reasons that Noble's wife, along with their daughter, has not returned to the now supposedly sober Noble. I do not believe that Lucretia should be coerced into returning home because "It is the Biblical thing to do." Instead the wellbeing of both Noble's wife and daughter should be of paramount importance. They have endured enough.
One thing is certain. There is much more that is unknown this story and, in my opinion, Noble needs to stay out of the pulpit. That rant sealed the deal for me.
first
I have NEVER seen Noble call himself an alcoholic. He drank because he’s an alcoholic. Until he admits that, it ain’t over. He will drink again…
“If you have never read Holy Rage at the Spring on the Pajama Pages by Dr. James Duncan, you cannot begin to understand how outrageous the leadership acted. To this day, I cannot look at Perry Noble’s face and not feel sick to my stomach. How could anyone attending the church read this and not realize that something was very wrong at NewSpring? ”
I cannot stress enough how important it is to read what the “little boys” running New Spring did to the Duncan Family. And I will go out on a limb and say variations of this sort of targeting are happening in many churches because these little boys don’t really have much to do all day at church “work”. Some of us have seen it played out with Driscoll, JD Hall and others.
The thing about Dr. Duncan is he documented all of it (which wasn’t easy) for others to follow the tragic and evil trajectory. That, in and of itself was quite the feat. I am very grateful.
His story is a glaring example of what happens when little boy men with arrested development have too much time and money due to ” church work”.
@ brian:
You, sir, are the Superman of posting!
Lydia wrote:
The world reads a few of these stories in the news and shuts the door to serious consideration of Christ and who can blame them. And critics of this site think what is posted here gives Christ a black eye.
Thersites wrote:
Is this a criticism of this site for posting this or a criticism of those who perpetrate evil in the name of Christ and who want everyone to shut up about what they do? Am trying to figure that out.
At least he didn’t call himself “Pastor P.” But it sounds like Perry still sees his old job as part of his identity. Preaching is his only livelihood. It always worries me when someone in ministry starts using their title as their new first name.
He needs to get a real job, out of the spotlight, and find out who Perry is. He’s not a Pastor anymore. [And that’s where the anger comes from. He’s afraid that the gig is up, and he might have to face real life as a non-celebrity — just like the rest of us schlubs.]
The churches who are asking him to speak are acting as enablers, keeping his Pastor identity alive, and preventing him from facing his real demons.
There’s lots of stuff he can’t say because he signed an agreement when he got fired in exchange for a little severance pay. How much, I wonder. Not my business, but should be the business of the pew sitters who donated it.
Speaking of business, did something make it impossible for him to get a job in the business world like the pewpeons gotta get?
“I have a question. Why did Perry Noble travel all the way to Arizona for alcohol treatment? “
Uhmmmmm……. Quick South of the border runs for cheap tequila?
He said he’s lost 30 pounds since he left NewSpring because he quit drinking ……. 30 pounds ……. How can he not be an alcoholic?
GSD [Getting Stuff Done] wrote:
… the RJP. (the Real Job People – work-a-day world, 8-5, then easy chair with boots on the coffee table, cold beer watching the news, meatloaf in the oven, mow the yard after dinner, put the kiddies in bed, and all that stuff).
@ Thersites:
In my experience, there are two kinds of people when it comes to mega churches. Those that despise them and think people who attend are mind numbed idiots and those who love, love, love mega churches. The bigger the better.
Both kinds may or may not be believers. 🙂
I discovered this long ago. I have no statistical analysis to share. Based upon informal and sometimes vitriolic man on street convos. (Wink)
“thirteen months to reach out to him” this is why these people do not live in the pew sitter’s world. An honest reflection I use to actually keep track of how much time I personally wasted leaderships time. Things I included on that list based on rebukes I had received.
1. Asking for prayer.
2. Answering questions at a bible study.
3. Responding to direct questions asked me by leadership. (meaning I took to long to answer or offer some type of clarification etc.) When I would just say you are correct I am sorry or just feel like trash that was what was actually being sought after.
4. Showing, sharing, seeking comfort of any kind, especially grief or asking how to raise a kid when I became an insta dad at 21. Then being accused I was not leading my nephew to Christ fast enough.
5. Making excuses why I had trouble reading things because I was dyslectic.
6. Sharing any positive things about what I saw God do. I was bragging.
7. Sharing any negative things, Im whining
8. Not having a quiet time and when I started to not sharing it right, then sharing too much.
9. Letting any family issues get in the way of helping the church.
10. Not agreeing with leadership when they kick out mentally ill folks after telling the mentally ill folks to stop taking their meds because they are healed by Jesus after repenting of being Schizophrenic.
11. any discussion concerning evolution, age of the earth etc.
12. This is a small list.
You know before I became an evangelical I really had this rather rich interaction with God as I understood Him. It took church and many decades for me to learn to loath all aspects of my humanity and to understand just how deeply God loathes all of us with such a singular eternal passion. Then I spend one hour with the folks I work with and all the above just melts away and I seek the quiet grace of God’s love in every breath, Sunbeam, raindrop, and smile.
Back when I was an evangelical it was made clear that such emotionalistic nonsense is disgusting and should be repudiated. So when I say I left church for self-preservation this is what I meant. Not all churches are like this, actually, most churches are not like this and I know that.
The insight that he left his wife & kids is a profound one. We always said of our Dad that he chose alcohol over us, that he may have physically left when my Mum divorced him but actually he’d been gone for years before that.
(Pastor) P is an angry man. His eyes look wild.
Aside from that, he needs to do what every other person does when fired….take stock of why it occurred, and find new employment. It’s not realistic to think previous employer is under some sort of obligation to financially support you, until you find another job.
Wonder why he left his family. Was it just over his boozing it up, or is there more to the story? I hope his wife is resolved to keep him out of family home.
Anyway, his FB video speaks for itself, lots of bitterness, anger, unresolved issues, looming around in his head. Doesn’t appear to be an emotionally mature individual.
I’m glad the church is distancing themselves from him. Maybe we’re about to see a change in the way churches deal with unrepentant staff… (We can only hope and pray!!!) In any case, considering what happened with Perry’s wife and daughter, I hope and pray to God it was ONLY his drunkenness that caused them strife. (When I read about him attacking the sexuality of the blogger and said blogger’s child, it made me wonder if Perry’s having issues with own sexuality, on top of all the manipulation and verbal abuse). Whatever the case, I hope that his wife and daughter stay away from that man and that God intervenes to keep it that way.
From the OP:
My suggestion to Perry is this. Do what another pastor did who is a far better theologian and preacher than you. He sinned, rather seriously. Stepped down and…
At this point, Dee, I thought you were going to write “started a new church in Arizona.”
Please forgive me for thinking that you had lost your mind.
It appears that Perry committed adultery, loving his alcohol more than his wife and daughter! I believe that unless he returns to counseling and gets into a 12 step program like AA, he will continue to behave erratically. Churches should stop enabling him! And, if he does not get this straightened out, and perhaps get on psychiatric medication, his wife should consider making the break permanent, for the sake of their daughter.
dee wrote:
brian does win a lot of first places here… I think we should be told. 😉
The best is yet to come.
brian wrote:
Brian
It breaks my heart to hear how you were treated in the name of God, but your testimony of God’s love is a great start to my day. The thing I miss most about gathering with fellow believers is sharing burdens and hearing stories about how God’s presence pulled them through. Although you may be correct that many of the reasons you left don’t apply to most churches, it does seem to me that real fellowship and real experience with God are not welcome at most places we call church. Max said something in a prior post about requiring church leaders to have a real experience with Christ as a qualification for leadership. I think most haven’t had this experience or have subjected it to the tyrrany of theology and doctrine. It is a beautiful thing when we bear each other’s burdens and share God’s love. Thank you for sharing your experience this morning.
There was a time when I met with a small group of guys on Tuesday morning at 6 for prayer and Bible study loosely led by the pastor. Although it was held at a time that conflicted somewhat with spending time with my daughter while getting her ready for school, I made that sacrifice as well as an extra hour of sleep because I sometimes experienced the beauty of sharing each other’s burdens and God’s love. I loved that pastor and still do, but it broke my heart that he often seemed to be at war with whatever God was doing in that group an the larger assembly. He was no tyrrant as most people understand the term, but his theological musings and debates often were a the bottleneck to anything the Spirit was doing. As his desire for adminstrative oversight increased, the work of the Spirit seemed to decrease in the Assembly.
Thank you for sharing!
He might be dry, but he’s not sober. There was no humility in his speech. He’s playing the victim, which is what we alcoholics do until we actually fully surrender the fact that we are, indeed, alcoholics whose lives are unmanageable. Sounds like even with all his post New Spring speaking engagements (one of which was a conference my church hosts), he has no clue that his life is still unmanageable. And that is probably due to the fact that he has been placed back on a stage too soon enabling him to continue to live in the denial that he alone through his drinking and the insane behavior that goes along with alcoholism brought on his problems.
Wow, what a bunch of hypocrites!
I just read through all of these comments and all I can say is that none of you have the right to judge Perry or anyone else for that matter. There is SO much speculation in your statements. You should all stop and consider your own motivations. Jesus said for those who are without sin to cast the first stone. Who among you has that right?
I read the article the other day about how he was never qualified and yet it was an insult to other churches who had him back to say he wasn’t qualified now! *facepalm*
I was hoping you’d do a post on this.
AL. CO. HOL.
i.e. “Ain’t drunks fun?”
Watching that video totally made my skin crawl. I don’t know if it was the wild, out-of-control-looking eyes, or the way he kept trying to “stick to the script” and plaster on a fake smile every now and again. Either way, after listening to his churlish and childish finger-pointing rant, at best he is a little, petty, immature man clawing desperately to regain control of “his” church. At worst, he is possessed by the demonic forces of darkness. There was absolutely nothing he said that would lead me to believe that he is truthful, broken, contrite or repentant. He is vain, vindictive, hateful and angry. I sensed a great darkness in my spirit while I was watching that video. All of my internal sensors were going off. It was truly disturbing! I pray that his family is safe and stays as far away from him as possible. He needs help that mere men cannot provide. Ephesians 6:12-13 instantly comes to mind!
The fact that I’m even writing this about someone who is supposed to be a pastor and “man of God” is also greatly troubling to me. I earnestly hope this is NOT what the church is becoming…
Noble, Piper, Trump…
Is there something about Twitter that brings out Teh CRAZY in people?
And alcohol fueling doubles Teh Crazy.
Lea wrote:
Two words: RUMMY LOGIC.
Mae wrote:
He looks a little like actor Steve Zahn if he were in a mugshot.
@ brian:
I know where you’ve been. I’ve had so many bad church experiences, my “church” now involves reading sections of the Bible (by myself!) at home, reading Christian blogs, and commenting on those blogs.
On that note, may I suggest a few numbers to add to your list (in case the church you went to didn’t teach you that God despises all humanity enough!):
1) Reporting abuse is gossip
2) Questioning pastor’s finances and how much of it is being paid by the church is being “disruptive” and you will be severely reprimanded for it
3) Questioning the actions and words of those in leadership means you are divisive
4) Answering questions in Sunday School (when no one else is talking or knows the answer) makes you a “know-it-all” and “pushy”
5) Refusing to “know your place” will result in you being ostracized
6) Jesus only died for those who are rich or those with connections/important jobs, the rest of you are scum who will burn in hell for all eternity
Todd Wilhelm wrote:
You will be banned, I tell you, banned!!!!!
Beakerj wrote:
What an insightful comment. I am so sorry for the pain your family endured.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
Large and totally voluntary love offerings are involved…
@ Brad Hoover:
Sadly, Brad, your comment is indicative of the type of theology that you have ingested and typical of the fanboyz culture.
You have not given one concrete example of your concerns. Instead, you throw out Bible verses without even indicating how they apply to the situation in hand.
I know this is hard for your to accept but Perry Noble has many, many problems and he has hurt many people with his play fast and mean mouth and that was before alcohol entered the scene.(Although I am not sure when alcohol entered . He said a year ago but who knows. Alcoholics lie.)
Why don’t you demonstrate how you have carefully considered what was said in this post, the comments and the post from 2016? Then, attempt to write something coherent instead of mimicking Noble’s meme laden rant.
I bet if you took the time, you could do it. The “I don’t like what you are saying so you a mean and awful” doesn’t play around here.
Brad Hoover wrote:
Finally. A commenter I can look down on agreeably. The rest of you should take note.
You’re all rubbish.
Up yours,
Roger Bombast
@ dee:
I think Bombast may be misplaced here. Brian may be a Poe… although drawing attention to the joke kind of spoils it, because when you’re Poe-ing, you can’t come out of character.
Pingback: Perry Noble Has Inflated Sense of His Own Relevance | 1st Feline Battalion
@ Roger Bombast:
Having fits of giggles in North Carolina.
@ dee:
Having lots of rain in central Scotland.
Though, to be fair, it’s brightening up a bit the noo. In fact, my son may go out and mow the lawn in a minute.
newspring church is nothing but a business masquerading as a church.
I was injured on the job and was waiting on workers comp and was about to be kicked of my apt and they refused to do anything to help me.
It was horrendous. they made me give them a dossier with character references and my history which I did. I had been a minister for 20 years and had great character references.
from what I know they didnt’ call on any of my references and a church that had millions in the bank from the perishioners decided that they had no funds to help me.
I will never forget it. the church isn’t about people, it is about trying to get as many people in a building as they can with a huge emphasis on GIVING.
I didnt’ see anyone in that church with an anointing, they dont’ even know what that is.
right on their website it states that if you speak in tongues during a service they will escort you to the door, what does that tell you?
Also, if you want to know Jesus, you have to leave the sanctuary and go to a back room somewhere, they don’t allow people to come to Christ in the sanctuary.
Their focus is on making a comfortable environment for the sinner and the lost.
The last place a sinner should feel comfortable is in the church.
No Anointing of the so called pastors, no gifts of the Spirit in operation, and a complete failure to understand and convey the word of God in proper context.
This is the only church I have ever went to that no one carried a bible!
May God have mercy on the souls of them that are in ministry there He has not called.
If there is no anointing then you are in the wrong place.
I came there because I was invited and heard perry say that smokind and drinking is ok from the pulpit, it was horrendous.
Mae wrote:
There is something very unusual about the guy when you look in his eyes. He opens them so widely, like he’s shocked or surprised, something weird there, highly unusual. Otherwise, he looks like an average middle aged guy, maybe a little goofy, like someone who played a whole lot of Dungeons and Dragons back when it wasn’t cool, but generally, normal paunchy middle age fellow. But those eyes, there is something very different there and it leaps out, maybe even some physiological condition, something. Don’t know enough to say what it is, but it does look very odd.
@ Brad Hoover:
The Bible also says we should look out for wolves amoung the sheep… and look about for false teachers. Perry Noble has said enough that is public record that disqualifies him from being a leader. That has nothing to do with forgiveness. The NT teaches that leaders need to have high standards..
Brad Hoover wrote:
I’m confused… Are you saying that Perry had an affair? The context on your Biblical reference would seem to indicate adultery.
Burwell wrote:
*Of
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
Coastal North Carolina is sunny and warm today!
” It is important to understand that alcoholics lie.” I am not sticking up for Perry but I am sticking up for myself as an alcoholic and would completely disagree with this statement. Alcoholics are quitters.
I’ve never been a Newspring fan, simply because I embrace a more traditional view, on how to reach Christ. With that said, who is the person qualifying this article. To say that Perry Knoble is not as “theological, or spiritual ” as someone, is not our call, or others to make. The last I checked, Jesus qualifies the unqualified. It worked out pretty good for some fishermen that we read about! ( some only read it on Sundays, but that’s another story) My point in all of this, is this. You really don’t understand, and from the thread of this article, cannot be subjective ( only bullet points from the author seem credible) that all sin and fall short of the glory of GOD, not someone’s biased opinion. I believe in Jesus’s most focused on sermons, LOVE, FORGIVENESS, and REPENTANCE. Why don’t you ( people who are sounding like a bunch of Pharisees) focus on what is really important, the preaching of GOD’S WORD. There will be time on judgement day to see how all of us have lived , and see how are mistakes may have driven people away from God. I could care less about how many degrees of Theology you may have, or what your RESUME may say about you. I’m gonna focus on what God has to say about me. No levels of Christianity needed folks, just keep your eyes on Jesus Christ, and you will be ok.
Brad Hoover wrote:
There may be some truth to what you say, but I’m not sure that it’s offered in brotherly love. I’m as likely as the next person to post from wrong motive so I try to give people a pass if I don’t see an opportunity to reach an understanding that leaves me and the other person closer to God. High profile clergy really have no accountability to the people they aspire to lead. Forums like this are often the only place people have to vent their frustrations to other believers. What is your perspective on Perry Noble?
Perry’s glasses don’t help. They make his eyes look bigger and crazier. He should use contacts for videos.
It’s not judging… It’s image management.
I agree with brian, about everything really, but especially that “…these people do not live in the pew sitter’s world.” Spending some time working a regular job would help Perry in several ways. But once someone has found their identity on stage, it takes massive humility to go back to the pews, even temporarily.
An Attorney wrote:
But that wouldn’t be Godly Wifely Submission.
“Stay Sweet…”
Root 66 wrote:
No need to ring in The Demon Haunted World.
Egotistical Jerk plus Serious Sauce Hound goes a long way without supernatural assist.
Not just a drunk, not just a Dry Drunk, but a MEAN DRUNK.
Burwell wrote:
Yeah… thanks for that, Burwell!
I went out for run earlier on, and got soaked – still fun, though!
P.S. I hope the phrase “I got soaked” isn’t a euphemism for something unpleasant over on the left. It’s not in Scotland, I promise.
@ Law Prof:
Was beginning to think I was imagining things. The strange eyes were the first thing that jumped out at me when seeing the photos and watching FB video.
Maybe it is physiological, or he should wear contacts, I don’t know. Still, they looked strange to me.
Law Prof wrote:
I don’t know which he meant.
Personally, I like what Anne Lamott said: “If people wanted you to write warmly about them, they should have behaved better.”
I don’t see things as a reflection on Christ, although I get if people who were scarred in these types of churches do. They are a reflection on specific people, specific churches, etc. We are what we repeatedly do. If these churches repeatedly do bad things, they are not good places and absolutely should be exposed. Bad teachers, false teachers, wolves in sheep’s clothing? These are biblical. Paul wasn’t pulling his punches and neither should we.
@ Lea:
Based on the general tenor of Thersites’ comments over the last wee while, I’d say it was a comment on people who criticise Deebs. I don’t think Thersites believes TWW brings the Church into disrepute.
Nancy2 (aka Kevlar) wrote:
Seriously??
Straight outta parks and rec!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY6OV1yyGHE
GSD [Getting Stuff Done] wrote:
Is this a case of, the glasses half full?
@ Nick Bulbeck:
You’re probably right. Sometimes it’s hard to keep people straight.
@ Brad Hoover:
Well Bless your heart, Brad.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Can’t have that now, can we? Nope, she must continue to trust God/husband and do whatever he says due to his indisputable celestial insight. We can see that God rewards such submission through such shining examples as Sapphira… Yeah…No, wait, hang on… Uh… I…Um…Y’know…
*runs away*
dee wrote:
Dee –
Likely just another hit and run, probably waste of time to address. Whenever a cult hero is taken to task for being, well, a cult hero, with all the extreme narcissism, abusiveness, twisting of the truth and hypocrisy that implies, you’re going to get a few of the true believers showing up, who almost invariably are one stop specials, throwing a tight little wad of hate, then gone for good. They almost always say the same things, their understanding of the Bible is almost always superficial, they almost never come with any of the kindness of Jesus. They are so very predictable, and so very lacking in self reflection. One has to think this is a talking point given to them and they just spit it out without thought, out of pure emotion.
If Jesus truly did mean that no one who sinned could ever judge anyone for anything, then the cultists are hypocrites to come here to criticize. Paul was a hypocrite to call out the superapostles, the man sleeping with his mother in law, the churches he criticized for selfishness, drunkenness, lack of love and faith–as was virtually everyone who wrote any part of the Bible. That doctrine of the cults is self devouring. But of course, idolatry always is.
GSD [Getting Stuff Done] wrote:
My personal belief is he looks crazy because he literally is crazy. But I am not a psychiatrist and have not had him under my care. That said, one can read and watch what he says, how he treats the Bible, how he treats others, at least based on what he has expressed in public, one can observe his demeanor and the fruits of what he does, one can pay attention and come to the conclusion that whether the man in mentally ill or not, he has been extraordinarily destructive of those closest to him while simultaneously thinking he had some right to mount a stage each week and tell tens of thousands how they ought to live their lives. That is high hypocrisy of the worst sort.
Mae wrote:
What was the strangeness?
A “Predator’s Stare” like Charles Manson or David Miscavage?
Unfocused Intensity?
Stone Cold Psycho?
(And those Hipster BCD glasses of his sure don’t help.)
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
I don’t know what it is, but the guy looks like he’s not well. Not like Manson or anything, like a psycho, but there’s something highly unusual there. Maybe the alcoholism affects some people in the eyes that way, or maybe some disease, or perhaps he just has very unusual eyes. But when I look at Noble and Furtick, there’s something really odd and disturbing about their expressions, like something’s seriously amiss.
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
That about covers it! Unfocused intensity fits. Don’t know what that indicates though.If I came across him in person, the eyes would make me very uncomfortable.
I noticed in the video (yes the eyes) but also he is wearing his wedding ring on the right hand. In the USA the traditional finger is on the left and while there are several reasons for this but this has also taken on some other meanings as a signal of relationship status or availability. I am too old to keep up with all of this but the really “cool kids” are always finding new ways to communicate. Just wondering……..
John Gilreath wrote:
There is more. There is something called WISDOM. There is much you don’t address in your comment so there is not much more I can say to you.
Secondly, I believe you care about Noble/NewSpring a bit more than you claim. Your writing gives it away.
David J wrote:
So, you are claiming that you never lied as a drinking alcoholic? You never made up excuses for your behavior? If so, you are a first.
David wrote:
I did not catch that. Good pickup.
John Gilreath wrote:
John – Of course Jesus qualifies the unqualified, no one is suggesting otherwise. But if those fishermen had been saying and doing the things Mr. Noble had been saying and doing, and engaging in such behavior after claiming to have made a commitment to Christ, then people would be right to question their commitment and their faith and certainly their right to lead anyone.
One other thing: Your writing is disjointed and confused, it does not read like the product of a sound mind–you need to get away from whomever is influencing you and run towards that Jesus you mentioned.
Law Prof wrote:
People who drop by tend to be either repetitive and vague (Brad) or write like this…a whole lot of words to say the same things which is basically that we can’t talk about what is reality because we are supposed to just forgive and forget, and I supposed accept anybody in the pulpit, no matter how awful they are acting.
[Unless, of course, they are a woman. That’s the worst thing you can be.]
I have to say, Perry Nobles defense of self was very illogical. Everything he says is basically backed up by an opposite thing (I’m mad so and so won’t talk to me, also I’ve been ignoring so and so for reasons…???)
For those who are interested, you can listen to and see Perry Noble speak at the Mission City Church in Largo, Fl Perry talks about his failings, drinking, etc. Click on the second video.
By the way, the pastor of the church Dustin LaChance volunteers his time; he takes no salary. He has his own business.
http://missioncitychurch.com/watch/
Ken G wrote:
It’s good that Perry spoke of his failings, but that doesn’t take away from what he said in the video. It’s good that Dustin is a volunteer, but that doesn’t mean he made a wise choice bringing a person like Noble in to speak. It fact, inviting such a person in is a sign that he’s very much on the wrong track and has no business leading anyone in any way.
Off topic, do any of you recall seeing a typed list or graphic a few months ago, something like “If This Happens In Your Church, Run Away”, and one of points was if the church talked about membership like it is a marriage? I’d appreciate a link if you can recall seeing it.
About the ring… He might be using the selfie cam to do this video, which often mirrors the image. I didn’t see anything in the image that would be definitive, like a book cover. But I did notice that he wears his watch on the same hand as the wedding ring, and that’s usually the left hand. He also uses that hand a lot, so he might be a lefty.
And the eyes are a bit manic. The glasses just magnify the effect. I really don’t understand how thousands of people could have been drawn in by this fellow. All I see are red flags.
Just wanted to make a point, my sharing here is extremely hard and I do not share that much in comparison to others. My experience in the evangelical community started back in the mid 70’s and spans to around mid to late 2000’s. It involved many different churches but 4 churches in particular. One main reason for the many churches is because I was the ride to and from church for folks who could not drive over about 25 years. I do not post specific names for one simple reason, my recollections are somewhat emotional and I do not have perfect total recall and admit some of what I say is based on only my remembrance which is filtered through a great deal of pain. I have been told it helps, which is the primary reason I post anything.
I did raise a child when my sister was unable to, that decision was made at 19 in my mother’s room standing next to the brown drawer mirror set when she asked me to help. She needed an answer quickly due to issues I prefer not to go into. That decision was hard but I never wavered not once, that’s my nephew’s view, mine is that I failed him like everyone else (another gift from the faith) though I am getting better with those repeat tapes. One of the first posts here was to ask the leaders of this board to post in this framework.
I have reconciled with every person I can think of over the past six or so years. This is a very hard and time-consuming process but I believe it is one that is paramount to actually living out the Christian religion. It is not my desire to play games or joke around in most ways, I do like the posting first “game” that is a good ice breaker. I can understand if people think I may be a bit trollish and maybe I am in some of my rhetoric but no more than most of us.
I just wanted to add this. thank you.
meh…
Another nutty “church” and another nutty “pastor”.
The sheer amount of money involved…galling.
Read the “pajama pages”, that this “church” is still a going concern…again galling.
There is a reason we’re leaving Christianity in droves.
John Gilreath wrote:
Hurrah! Another clear-thinking commenter who’s decided to focus most on the right sermons. If you Wartburgian Pharisees would only bother to capitalise like Mr Gilreath here, you might be less rubbish. Though why he bothers reading this tripe is beyond me.
You’re all rubbish.
Up Yours,
Roger Bombast
GSD [Getting Stuff Done] wrote:
Is it the source of his power?
Law Prof wrote:
Bah. It certainly sounds like he minds to me. And how do you know whether his writing is joined up? The comment was typed, not handwritten.
You’re all rubbish.
Up Yours,
Roger Bombast
dee wrote:
… not throwing pearls to swine. – Jesus, Matthew 7:6
… not like a dog going after its own vomit. Proverbs 26:11, 2 Peter 2:22.
Etc., The Book of Proverbs, The Book of James, the warnings of Jesus about the religious leaders of His time.
Law Prof wrote:
We do get one or two parodists here. There were some semi-regulars who used to follow articles on Steven Furtive and post this type of comment, that was actually meant to ape the kind of groupies these men attract. It’s quite possible that mssrs. Hoover and Gilreath (who may be the same person, with or without a separate IP or email) aren’t for real.
I’m in two minds about whether it’s a good idea, but TBH, even I sometimes feel like letting off a bit of steam sometimes.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
Bah.
Why do I even bother coming? I believe I’ve pointed out that you’re all rubbish.
Up Yours,
Roger Bombast
I know that “diagnosing” someone based on a video can lead to all kinds of misinformation. With that in mind-I wonder if Noble has ever had a psychiatric evaluation? Years ago, I use to do psychological and cognitive testing. I saw a wide cross section of mental illness. I also know many people with mental health issues self medicate with drugs and alcohol.
Noble’s behavior and and thought patterns seem somewhat erratic. I bring this up not to demean the man, but if his problems stem from mental health issues he will probably continue his destructive ways unless he gets psychiatric help. One thing I noticed was his lack of insight. It appears he doesn’t quite connect his actions to the consequences that naturally follow.
If he continues to project his own issues onto others, and refuses (or is unable) to reflect on his personal “demons”, his patterns of behavior will probably continue. God bless his wife and daughter.
I have been an owner at Newspring since the early days in 2001. I am appalled that Linkedin allows this slander. I normally choose to remain silent, but this junk keeps showing up in my news feed. The references about “tithing” and any pressure to tithe are false. I do not have time to address the number of false statements in these posts and the authors of them do not deserve that level of thoughtfulness. For the reference about Perry’s alcoholism – you should practice Ecclesiastes 4 and 5 and listen rather than waste your words. In his letter and personal video to our church Perry talks very specifically about his dependency on alcohol and how it all began. I follow the gospel and I am continually amazed at the people that invest an obsessive amount of time to tear down successful pastors like Perry. The words of Christ alone warn us not to put our faith in man. Man disappoint. Me – you – all of us. There will never be a shortage of people ready to attack any growing church, but what’s interesting to me is the hypocrisy of those that use the opportunity to use a person’s mistakes to grow their own social media. Anything that shows up in my feed such as this contains elements of slander and I am going to report it as such. And one thing I do know is this – in 20 years our church will still be going strong and your blog will be gone and your name will be unknown. Yet, the name of Jesus Christ is eternal and will go on through the body of every person that proclaims the gospel – and frankly that has nothing to do with the church name or the buildings or even the leadership model.
brian wrote:
And they say we never talk about anything uplifting here.
I’ve not met the folks you work with, but I figure there are some true pastors among them.
I mainly referring to the people that are my students. They often give me encouragement even when they don’t realize it. That of course also goes with a staff that works with them. This has been one of the highest Honors that I have had in my life and one of the Great Looks out a grace of God. Especially at the Developmental Center where there was so much horrible stories that could be told even in places like that light wood shine out and Hope. In the Evangelical Institution that’s practiced by most churches in America this was not sought and often conflicted a day-to-day application. What I learned from it is that life is very messy no matter how many specifics and doctrinal understandings we have it will always be messy. What we do with that mess often is the beauty then I call the quiet grace of God.
@ Law Prof:
It’s probably stupid of me, but my first thought in reading the comment was that it was PN himself, having googled his own name and coming up with this article, and so he had to shame everyone who said anything remotely negative.
But that’s just my impression. No way of testing it.
@ brian:
Bless you, Brian. I’m not sure that particular commenter was referring to you; I suspect he/she mixed up the names “Brian” and “Brad” and was referring to the drive-by commenter.
John Gilreath wrote:
Likewise, John. I don’t you’ll get far here with out of context chastisement as some folks here have had to endure such harassment from fuzzy clarvoyants. Even though lack of education is sometimes mentioned as a shortcoming here, I dont think most people are raising it as a primary issue. Personally, I believe a seminary education taken too seriously does more harm than good. Perry Noble is not some straw man erected by the blog hosts to bolster people’s own sense of spiritual well being. He is a real person who has caused real damage while being called pastor. Those who have been harmed by Mr. Noble, will see this as a refuge of discernment. Regarding Mr. Noble’s role as pastir, I’ll quote Mellencamp from memory; “Calling it your job ole hoss shore don’t make it right, but if you want me to I’ll say a prayer for your soul tonight.”
Ann wrote:
True.
And, on the other hand:
“God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.” 1 John 1:5-10 NASB
The “Light” factor, or lack of it (the dark factor) is a red flag.
@ Brad Hoover:
Perry exposed himself on a public platform – ranting like a wild man. If he doesn’t want a response he should not post rants on FB . . .
Keri wrote:
I have no idea what you are talking about. What *Linked In.* Why are you talking about that here at this blog?
As for slander, you do know that it is the deliberate of telling of lies. Since you are accusing some Linked In Acct of deliberate telling of lies, you have a moral obligation to spell out how you know someone is deliberately lying.
Gotta love the lingo of being an *owner* at NewSpring. Wasn’t that something Noble dreamed u at one time to show you were really part of the church?
Keri wrote:
Of course you don’t *have the time.* When we post something in our post, we have links so it is up to you to prove them false but I bet you don’t “have the time.*. This reminds me of someone else who posted here recently.
Keri wrote:
And, of course, you believe him since you are an *owner* and know he is telling the truth.
Keri wrote:
How do you define successful?
Sadly, you have not addressed any of the painful situations that have involved Perry Noble like the inexcusable abuse of Dr James Duncan. If you are some sort of owner, then you are responsible for what happened to this man.
Keri wrote:
How do you define a *growing* church? How do you know that we don’t attend a *growing church?*
Keri wrote:
What Noble did was not a *mistake.* It was a sin. He has no business being in the pulpit at this point. Hopefully since you *know the gospel* you understand the difference. Noble actively chose to drink and drive his family away. That is a sin, not an accident.
Keri wrote:
Bless your heart. I would recommend that you figure out what the legal definition of slander is. We don’t slander at this blog. We tell what we believe to be true. But go ahead, and *report it* and make sure you understand what is Linked In. I am sure they are waiting with bated breath for your report on whatever….
Good night- what nonsense. Read the full comment, folks
How many of you know members at NewSpring call themselves owners? Bless their little hearts. If they own it, then they are responsible for the mess. http://www.pajamapages.com/newspring-attacked-my-family-but-im-the-jackass/
Brad Hoover wrote:
Uh oh, another person who doesn’t get the judgement deal in Scripture.
Brad, I know that you have not been well taught in how to view Scripture so let’s get you started.
There are different types of judgement.
1. There is eternal judgment. That is the the solo purview of our lord.
2. Then there is judgement regarding right and wrong. This is the purview of all believers. For example, I bet you know that adultery is a sin. So, if your pastor s involved in adultery, shouldn’t you say something along the lines of “Gee, the Bible says that is wrong.” Or would you sit around , allowing him to continue in his adultery and say “Gee, I can’t judge if adultery is wrong?”
Let’s see…if you teen son came home and you found out he had used drugs at a party, would you say “Gee that’s OK-I am not supposed to judge you or your actions.”
3. Then there are laws in this country. They define what you can and cannot do. So, if you were to drive 80mph in a 40 mph zone and got picked up by a trooper would you say ” You should not judge me for my actions because God does not want you to judge others?”
Do you get my drift?
Keri wrote:
Funny, you talk about slander and yet you bring up not a single example of it. Waiting for the citation of slander. But of course, you won’t provide it, because you almost certainly don’t have the guts to be anything more than a hit and run cult poster. So typical, so tiresome.
Keri wrote:
An ‘owner’?? Is this a thing?
Keri wrote:
Perry Noble is neither noble nor a pastor. “Itchy Ears”
scott hendrixson wrote:
“Owner”?
How about just simply firing him? Sure sounds easier to me!k
@ scott hendrixson:
Yep- a Perry Noble thing.
Lea wrote:
It is a deep theological meme that PerryNoble dreamed up and the fancily bought it.
Law Prof wrote:
Yep- she is going to report us to Linked In! I am trembling…. Linked In?????
Brad Hoover wrote:
John Gilreath wrote:
Keri wrote:
Are you folks just pranking this blog because your old gag of calling strangers and asking if their “refrigerator is running” no longer works? At least add some imagination, shhesh.
It is interesting how stories about the big names brings out the characters.
dee wrote:
I’m bettin’ no. These are the same kinds of reformed fundagelical folks who will sit a three year old girl across from her molester, tell her that she’s a sinner too, and then demand that she ‘forgive’ him.
Bridget wrote:
Seems so reasonable to me. Don’t want flak, don’t post wild rants.
Lea wrote:
Odd position. Not a congregant, nor an attendee, not a member, but an,”owner” ? That’s a new term.
Jack wrote:
It’s almost numbing these type of churches, are becoming the norm. I haven’t left Christianity, but am having a hard time defending the antics of too many churches.
Only solution for me, is to keep my eyes solely on Jesus.
I think I remember Noble once saying took medication for depression. Please correct me if I am wrong. If he was drinking alcohol which taking meds for depression that is a bad combination. It might explain a lot of his past behavior.
Mae wrote:
Maybe it implies regular payments, er, tithes. Sort of like “renting a pew”.
GMFS
We’ve had a good assortment of possible Poe’s on this thread – I must admit, I was starting to miss them!
I’m not certain who Keri, John and Brad are – they may be the same person ‘aving a larf *, they may be Mr Noble or an assistant ghost-writing for him, they may be Poe-ists parodying the classic preacher groupie. They may actually be loyal to Mr Noble. Either way, the phrase “successful pastor” is telling.
For one thing, there’s no such thing as a “pastor” in the new testament. There’s a greek word meaning shepherd, but it means simply that: it’s an everyday term, not a religious code-word. “Pastor” is a jargon term, derived from the Latin and not generally applied outside of church life. There certainly is no sense whatever of a shepherd (or any other job-title) being the CEO or, perhaps, VP of a corporation, or a person at or near the apex of a pyramid.
Among professing churches, there are certainly numerous successful entrepreneurs and motivational speakers. It’s a well-established business model, and works well in many different senses; it attracts followers who enjoy following “Jesus” and “the Gospel”, or “the Bible”, in the same way that any other commercial meme attracts followers and can create a religious devotion. Once on the inside, it will naturally claim its success is due to “God” and that its critics are of “satan”.
I forget who first commented that wolves in sheep’s clothing don’t look like wolves; they look like sheep.
* Imagine the phrase “having a laugh” as spoken by Jason Statham. But NOT as spoken by Dick van Dyke, cor bloymey.
Keri wrote:
Really? So, your name is on the property deed? If you decide to leave, can you sell your share of the church?
Mae wrote:
If this was a’one off’ then we could say it’s an anomaly. But it’s not. This happens in every single evangelical church I’ve ever attended, seen on TV or heard about, in my city, country and around the world.
And other faiths shouldn’t be smug either. The mainline churches have their whack jobs too. Friends of ours attended a Catholic service where everyone had to pray to this Mary statue with the threat there would another 911 event if they didn’t. It seems like all churches are descending into some form of madness. I’ve got to ask, if there is a God, where is he? It’s like “Elvis has left the building”
@ Jack:
I am sorry this has been your experience. It’s true far too many churches, para church organizations, have become cult like, in one form or another. Seems like outright wackiness, or authoritarianism, sexual abuse, is running rampant.
I am 66 years old, and hopefully in my last church. So far, it has not succumbed to the above environments. Still, I am wary, keeping my eyes wide open, to any subtle changes.
We meet with couples outside of our church for prayer and fellowship. If need be, we could rely on that for church.
@ Keri:
Perfect example of the cult of personality and group think that comes from those types of churches. It’s chilling.
“Noble drew people and bucks, so he got the green light for his antics.” (Dee)
There are a lot of young men in American pulpits for that reason. Their ministries have nothing to do with the call of God on their lives to preach the Gospel.
We might as well give Noble the green light again since it appears that the 21st century pew in many place want preachers they can identify with it, who will not exhort them to holy living. If Noble is not available, they will just prop someone else up. Preachers like Noble would have no stage if it weren’t for an audience willing to finance them.
Keri wrote:
Perhaps. But, for now – in this season – watchblogs like TWW have come into the Kingdom for such a time as this. The American church is in a mess! Watchmen can’t remain silent – they must sound the alarm to warn. He who has ears to hear will hear what the Spirit is saying to the church – through whatever vessel God uses.
Lydia wrote:
Chilling, indeed!
Lydia, I continue to be amazed by followers who stick with pulpit celebrities to the bitter end. They push the margins to deliberately present a wayward pastor as a great person who should be admired and loved by the church at large. It’s a religious veneration of a man that approaches worship of the preacher rather than Christ! It really gets alarming when group think jumps on board to rally support behind cult personalities who have no place in the pulpit. Those who know Noble best – leadership at his former church – are right to warn others.
Nancy2 (aka Kevlar) wrote:
I was thinking maybe they have stock. Did we miss the IPO?
scott hendrixson wrote:
Those who buy a lie, own it.
Mae wrote:
And this is what needs to happen. There will be no changes in Christianity unless it comes from free thinking congregants. People of faith who also are not afraid to challenge. But that’s hard to do if the local mega has become so cult like that it’s members will actually commit criminal acts in “defense” of the pastor and the church. I honestly don’t know if I’d have the courage to challenge a church like the blog owner of the “pajama pages” did. Everything changes when they come after your family.
On a smaller scale, our local mini mega has been known to cause family discord. This usually happens when one person in the marriage no longer wishes to attend that church.
Right now most churches don’t really contribute much to our society. There are exceptions, like the Salvation Army and some of the missions in our city but they’re usually pretty cash strapped.
Meanwhile at my wife’s church, the pastor has a house in the most expensive part of the city, he drives a really nice convertible and his kids all go to private school. Nice gig. No wonder so many feel the “call”.
By the way, Perry Noble looks like a deranged muppet.
@ Jack:
All very discouraging to read. Sorry
you and your wife don’t agree on these matters. I am sure that is hard to live in.
We can’t all have blogs, or fight a specific church, as in what pajama games, has done. I do believe God helps us to do something that will contribute to these churches demise. Prayer is a mighty weapon.
Keri wrote:
Whoa…I have been on some serious meds with strong [ahem] effects that some unreliabe people say are cognitive. But I had no idea that Newspring had owners and that TWW had been acquired by LinkedIn. No one tells me anything.
Mae wrote:
The neat thing is after a while one realizes that most often church and Jesus have little correlation.
@ Max:
Just remember, when you warn personally, you become the enemy. And “accuser of the brotheren”.
Gram3 wrote:
My guess is they have a big shitck on “stakeholders” that people buy into.
Regarding seminary, some go to seminary to learn how to be more effective pastors because they love Jesus and love people. Some others go to seminary to learn how to more effectively play the role of pastor and make career connections. Imagine that.
Max wrote:
Uff da.
Oy vey.
Gram3 wrote:
Gram, I am also reading and writing under the influence of strong medications. ( Have Shingles/PHN)
I thought perhaps this poster was under the influence of delusion. 🙂
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
GAFH! (Good afternoon from heaven)
I’ve wondered whether my ner-do-well nephew Bill Rogers were one of those.
Speaking of Mr Furtive— when Mr Noble was fired he said, “”I realize that I cannot continue to do effective ministry if this issue in my personal life is not adequately addressed. I plan to immediately seek spiritual guidance of some amazing men of God in my life.”
I’m guessing Mr Furtive was one of those, and Mr Furtive spiritually guided Mr Noble to get back up in the saddle and onto the stage as soon as humanly possible.
Mr N also said, “However in my obsession to do everything possible to reach 100,000 and beyond, it has come at a personal cost to my own life and created a strain on my marriage.”
I reached millions more than Mr N ever will. The difference is that I was not obsessed with “growth” in my audience numbers. I tried to give them growth in the mind and in the heart. I think you living folks should take Mr N at his word in this statement. He said it when he was under the great stress of getting sacked, and undoubtedly regets having said it. He has shown this regret by calling his new business “Growth”.
Max wrote:
What do the leaders say to those who don’t buy the lie? They say; “those who smelt it, dealt it”. I repurposed that statement for polite company.
Keri wrote:
And the Holy One’s loyal attack dogs surface.
Fair Game Law LRH now in effect.
Jack wrote:
He’s always looked like that.
Before the “unpleasantness”, every propaganda picture of him in the pulpit looked like he was straining on the can with massive constipation.
Max wrote:
“Approaches”?
Max wrote:
I think that’s exactly what it often is: worship, idolatry. Generally, a lover of Jesus is not as hostile, as unthinking, as reflexively dee wrote:
That is strange. When you mention some shortcoming of one of these places, you end up reading some extraordinary things in response from the members who check in. There’s such confusion and frantic thrashing that goes on in their heads.
Many of them apparently cannot think clearly at all, sadly unhinged. Some are a little better and at least can compose their thoughts, but often they’re very shallow and have not been well considered, such as the absurd claims that no one can judge the right or wrong of their leader’s behavior, people like Chris whom you’re debating currently on Twitter, then when cornered they usually follow up with something like “But can’t you just forgive him, isn’t that in your Bible?” This is silly, because if we can’t judge what is right and wrong in the first place, how can we know what to forgive?
I have a friend who told the story of visiting some mud hut country and seeing an old piece of wood propped up in a village on some kind of pedestal. He’s insatiably curious, so he gave it a shake. Some old fellow then came charging out of a hut screaming things in the native tongue, just thrashing wildly. My friend was then told by someone that he’d touched the town’s idol. When you just report the things that people like Furtick, Driscoll and Noble do, that’s just the sort of reaction you get from too many followers. It’s idolatry that causes many of them to be so irrational.
@ Fred Rogers:
Thank you for being our neighbor, Mr. Rogers. Meanwhile Mr. Furtive is dealing with serious threats to his ministry from the Babylon Bee.
Max wrote:
It’s nothing more than another Reality Show, and follows Reality Show laws and axioms.
Just this one has a Christian(TM) coat of paint.
Kim Kardashian, Honey Boo-Boo, Duck Dynasty, Driscoll, Mahaney, Noble — no difference whatsoever. All Nuts-and-Sluts Reality Programming.
Gram3 wrote:
(As of Now) Ees Party Line.
And Jihad has been called against Blasphemy of their REAL Gawd in the Reality Show pulpit.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
As in “to come near to” … personality-driven churches often put the preacher above the subject of the preaching – which should be Christ. If someone goes to church to be entertained, rather than to worship, the gathering is ruled by stage performers rather than the God of the universe.
dee wrote:
I feel sorry for anyone raised in this church. If after everything that’s happened, you decide to join then on your head so be it. “owner”? Try and assert your “ownership” and see what happens.
dee wrote:
I can just see the LinkedIn guys scratching their heads at the accusations of BLASPHEMY! BLASPHEMY! BLASPHEMY! from the Faithful.
Max wrote:
And the rules of Reality Show Stardom are in effect.
Mae wrote:
“Wishy-Washy Fanatic” as in the old Peanuts strip?
CHARLIE BROWN: What do you want to be when you grow up, Linus?
LINUS: A Fanatic.
CHARLIE BROWN: Uhhhh… Have you decided what you want to be fanatical about?
LINUS: No… I guess I’ll just be a Wishy-Washy Fanatic.
Mae wrote:
We agree where it counts. We’ve never signed (and will never sign) membership contracts. A move highly recommended by TWW.
Max wrote:
Exactly
Jack wrote:
Trads gone off the deep end.
When Catholics go off the deep end, it’s usually some form of Marian Weirdness.
Makes you wish St Mary (AKA The Blessed Virgin) would actually appear to these wannabe Prophets and Visionaries and slap some sense into them.
“Insanity is Part of These Times! YOU MUST LEARN TO EMBRACE THE MADNESS!”
— Ambassador Londo Mollari, Babylon-5
Law Prof wrote:
Your story is a great illustration. Kind of puts it all out there in living color.
@ scott hendrixson:
Lol!!! Gotta check that out.
Max wrote:
People want someone they can see and touch – a real human being.
I’ve always looked at it like the church is a brick wall. As bricks we are cemented together via the Holy Spirit, AND the same cement, the Holy Spirit, keeps us healthfully apart with proper boundaries. The Holy Spirit bonds and filters our unity at all times, or at least, He should, if we let Him.
Keri wrote:
Newspring is in sum and substance a corporation.
It is run like many large corporations with a celebrity CEO.
It is largely a profit-making machine designed to enrich the leaders.
It is run with the goal of gaining market share (i.e., Perry’s expressed desire to hit 100,000).
It provides a regular service of motivational speaking, offbeat (sometimes unintentional) comedy, and hip, upbeat musical entertainment.
Therefore, perhaps at some point, early on (Kari mentioned 2001), they referred to members essentially as shareholders. Kari is possibly referring to an earlier, more open and honest iteration of Newspring.
Lydia wrote:
I prefer to think of this way … If you don’t warn, you become a friend of the enemy.
JYJames wrote:
That’s a great analogy, the way it’s supposed to work. So often it’s like a brick wall that stands between Jesus’ followers and Himself.
scott hendrixson wrote:
His fan club actually believed a Babylon Bee post which said Furtick was teaming up with Osteen and moving to Texas. Good night!
This is very typical P. Noble bullying. When all else fails, get larger and louder to prove your point is valid. It was pretty much a weekly occurrence at NS (I watched regularly for quite a while until my wife heard him and set me straight…haha).
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
ROFL!!!
To NewSpring Owners
So, are your names on the church property deeds?
Did you all get together to decide the salaries for Perry Noble and the rest of the employees?
If not, why not?
Do you actually believer this nonsense?
@ Law Prof:
As a brick on the wall, if I don’t keep the Holy Spirit between me and God’s beloved ones I connect with, I get in trouble. Every time.
Connection (the Holy Spirit) with boundaries (the Holy Spirit). That’s what works for me.
scott hendrixson wrote:
You’re welcome. Tell us more about Mr Furtive’s troubles. I only come out when he’s mentioned. I know if I were really me, I’d be more concerned when a sparrow falls, as our heavenly Father is.
@ Fred Rogers:
Could you please help me, Mr Rogers?
I cannot stop laughing thinking about one of the owners of NewSpring calling Linked In to report TWW for slander. It is becoming unseemly.
Jack wrote:
Smart move!!!
Jack wrote:
That is it! He really does!
@ Dee:
I am not convinced Texas is big enough for both egos, anyway.
Law Prof wrote:
If indeed we are talking about God’s Beloveds, the real Christians, the Remnant, as @ Max: would say, IMHO, we sometimes get connected or too close without the Holy Spirit guiding us as the ultimate authority in our interactions. I know I’ve done that. Often, it’s ignorance or immaturity or enthusiasm or attraction (celebrity), but we fall in hook, line, and sinker, and then have to recover our way out and grow closer to God and a bit more reserved with the people around us.
TWW and the comment people here have really helped me in this regard, by the grace of God, and thanks to Him. Tim Fall’s site, as well as the Jesus Creed site are also very helpful.
We can jump in and connect and keep our own integrity intact. God bless you all.
Dee wrote:
“PASTOR SAYS IT,
I BELIEVE IT,
THAT SETTLES IT!”
Lydia wrote:
If not the Known Universe.
Law Prof wrote:
How does that differ from a weekly Reality Show?
Dee wrote:
HaHa!
But really, that would not surprise me at all, if he thought it would benefit him. I don’t think most of these people have real convictions beyond becoming rich and famous.
That pic at the top when I enter this thread…
He just looks so… STUPID.
Or it’s the classic “I’m With Stupid” gesture.
Or just “Lookit MEEEEEE! I made a Selfie!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o24NLEthWQM
@ Lydia:
But there is money still to be had!
JYJames wrote:
Good words! No cement and the wall crumbles. Too many churches these days are like homes with only a brick front and vinyl siding on the sides/back. The Body of Christ ends up representing 25% of the structure at best (cemented by the Holy Spirit), while the rest of the church members are unregenerate in many places. Everybody that goes to church ain’t the Church.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
I think you’ve nailed the point. That’s what it is.
JYJames wrote:
Much of the church today is built with “untempered mortar” (Ezekiel 13:10-12 KJV).
Imma start a church and you all can be owners too for three easy starting payments of $99,995!*
*Your three payments of $99,995 gives you the ability to call yourself an owner of ishy church. Owner in no way constitutes any privilege of monetary return or actual input on the church in any way. Your payments must be completed with the signing of a covenant where you sign all personal rights away to ishy to eternity, including the right to determine your job, how you spend further money, and whether or not you wear shoes. You may not leave ishy church without permission of ishy and any attempt to contact law enforcement or legal help will result in years of ishy and her followers following you and trolling everything you do on the internet.
Max wrote:
“Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:
“Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it.
“Lo, when the wall is fallen, shall it not be said unto you, Where is the daubing wherewith ye have daubed it?”
Guessing that hail with stormy winds are coming which the fake cannot withstand. Pruning.
If, indeed, the fake is built with money and not the Spirit of God, sheer economics will evaporate what is spiritually weak. God help us, by His Spirit, to stand in that day.
Jack wrote:
It is good to read that you and wife agree on what matters.
We have never, and will never, sign a membership contract either. Many years ago we attended a marriage seminar weekend. On the last day they wanted everyone to sign a covenant to do everything , to uphold our marriage,that had been presented that weekend. We refused….even back then we were very leery of signed covenants.
Dee wrote:
Very seriously, the LinkedIn is just a mistake. The slander is nothing. The “owners” thing is just a gimmick. These are just sheeple. The main culprits are those who keep putting Mr N back onstage– because he’s an addict and they keep pouring him another.
And maybe the new management at the old church. They refused to give details when they they fired Mr N. They paid him to keep quiet. So the sheeple feel perplexed and betrayed. “Pastor P had problems. We all do. He got help. Why can’t we have him Baaack? We believe it’s OK to be imperfect. Where’s the love??”
Mae wrote:
Which seems to be the Biblical way to go: Matthew 5:34, James 5:12, for example.
The Bible can be so practical at times.
Dee wrote:
The Elevators should know that story couldn’t be true. Elevation Church would have obviously demanded at least 3 future draft picks from Lakewood plus a minister to be named later in exchange for Furtick.
I thought that Elevation would have designated Furtick as a Franchise Preacher to keep him there.
First off, quite a bit of the statements you made here are false. Second of all, let’s just pretend they’re true. So you’re saying that you were going to Newspring despite all of these issues you supposedly saw? Why were you attending if it was truly what you decribed here. Sounds to me like the story about your hardship was likely false too. Maybe that’s why Newspring didn’t give to you. I’ve known a number of people who were helped there. As a matter of fact, I’ve never heard of anyone who didn’t receive help until you. You didn’t get what you wanted, so you’re out for blood. Shameful.
Lydia wrote:
It’s great to see you back here. I was mostly kidding in my comment. Not about the meds and probably not about the cognition, either. 🙂
Jack wrote:
Hey! I’m offended by that! Most Muppets are far more thoughtful and balanced than Pastor P seems. Except for Animal, of course.
I do wonder what Perry is really like. Most celebrities and performers are very different off-stage.
Lydia wrote:
This profound truth needs to be plastered on billboards across the United States. Or at least down here where Noble and Furtick rule.
@ JYJames:
Well Said!
JYJames wrote:
Yes. A covenant is serious business. We felt signing it was a reckless move.
Law Prof wrote:
You know what they used to call the immediate predecessors of Reality Shows?
(i.e. the Jerry Springer Show types)?
“NUTS AND SLUTS”.
Perry Noble is a man who most certainly does not live up to his last name.
The look on his face during his rant is one of crazed anger – sadly it’s a look that I’m all too accustomed to.
GSD wrote:
You just gave me a flashback to The Muppet Show. One of those Muppet Show scenes that had to have been the inspiration for Meet the Feebles :
ANIMAL: ME WANT THAT WOMAN!
DR TEETH: What did you do to the last one we gave you, Animal?
ANIMAL: (BURP!)
Amanda wrote:
Prove it. We prove what we write so you need to do the same. Running around with your fingers in your ears screaming “lies, lies, lies” is silly and convinces no one.
Amanda wrote:
You must be addressing someone. Who is it?
Amanda wrote:
Well, if you haven’t heard of it happening, it must not have ever happened because you would know, right? You must know everything that happens there.
Max wrote:
IRL, even those houses are normally wood-framed.
The front is called “brick veneer”.
Amanda wrote:
Who let the Newspring attack dogs out?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkuu0Lwb5EM
Hope Pastor P has a lot of doggie treats ready…
Dee wrote:
“There’s a sucker born every minute.”
— P.T.Barnum, 19th-Century showman
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
The spice must flow…
Amanda wrote:
Apparently you’re referring to Child of God’s testimony above on Tuesday, 11:45 EST. How in the world can you know if his personal testimony about Newspring is false? Do you know this person (even though they posted anonymously)? Were you part of the group that decided to turn down his request? What about his story makes you think his hardship story was false? How is it that you have the right to judge a situation that you don’t know anything about? How in the world can you judge anything he’s said or done to be “shameful”?
I hope you answer, but if you’re like virtually ever mega defender I’ve ever seen, you won’t, you’ll end your time here with that spiteful little spewing of hate and not have the courage to return.
@ Amanda:
Well. I am familiar with the typical benevolence programs of several Megas and they are a propaganda shame. Unless you are a staffer overseeing the program (and get to see a real budget–which is doubtful) you probably believe whatever the really cool stage personas and their minions tell you.
Call Newspring and tell them you are coming by, as a member, to pick up a detailed yearly budget with line items for every department. Let me know how it goes. (Wink)
@ Gram3:
Sorry to hear you need strong meds! But great to hear from you. You sound quite sharp to me! (But that’s not saying much, either)
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
It would be nice to hear people be specific and detailed for a change…
I don’t find this generic ‘shame, shame, shame’ stuff terribly convincing.
@ Steve:
On a quick road trip now and we spent a large part of it literally listing the ways church and Jesus don’t correlate. Historically and now. It’s an interesting and eye opening exercise. Better than “I spy”, anyway.
I contend that each generation would be wise to seek Jesus outside the traditional accouterments. Jesus has gone from a church/state institution complete with magistrates to a commercial brand with a light show and fog machines.
Fred Rogers wrote:
Mr Rogers! So nice to hear from you again.
@ Amanda:
Words of wisdom from another proper drive-by. It’s a shame you don’t all take notice. Everyone who whines about Perry Global is just a bitter whiner trying to be spiteful. What a contrast with Mr Perry’s own gracious and humble entreaties to the jackarses who don’t like his music.
You officially suck as human beings. And you’re all rubbish.
Up Yours,
Roger Bombast
Steve wrote:
We could all use a dose of just reading the gospels. Jesus is found there.
Lydia wrote:
The casino look.
Gram3 wrote:
ROTFLOL
Lydia wrote:
That’s the truth.
JYJames wrote:
And a hootchy-kootchy praise and worship team, gyrating in tight pants to the beat of loud drums and whiny guitars, with lyrics repeating the same 7 words 11 times.
Max wrote:
Good to remember.
Hey Amanda…. is that “quite a bit” or “”quite a few” of the statements that are made here are false”?
I am about as “elder rule” as anyone that would read or post here, and I have no clue how anyone could defend this Pastor P guy. I am so tired of Christians defending and covering up sin by playing the “who are you to judge” card. You people at mega-churches want to be like a big business?? Then suck it up when your CEO blows it and gets fired. That bozo cannot get a real job so he needs to find willing accomplices to find more gullible sheep.
Good job on the blog guys…. I like reading here. This one got me fired up.
Geez… if you are an “owner”, try to sell some of your shares. I think the bottom may drop out if if has not already. More business jargon. Sad.
@ Gram3:
Someone cut and paste to this website and forgot to customize it…lol.
What galls me the most is the fact that PN revels in being “unqualified”. In my opinion, that sums up the whole situation – he’s unqualified, Biblically and otherwise, knows it, and doesn’t care.
Gram3 wrote:
I wonder whether this comment has been copy/pasted from elsewhere, and the reference to LinkedIn simply hasn’t been edited to reflect its new destination. Though I also wonder what LinkedIn has to do with this kerfuffle between Noble and Newspring.
Amanda wrote:
*sigh* Which ones, exactly?
Keri wrote:
You know this for a fact, Keri? How exactly?
Furthermore, if this blog is ever gone for good, I’m sure that the Deebs will celebrate. For it will mean that their job is done, and abusive churches and preachers are no more. And even when the Wartburg Watch is gone, it will not be forgotten. Those of us who know of its dedication to the wounded and abused will remember it.
Serving Kids In Japan wrote:
Very sad, what Keri thinks counts for failure: “Your name will be unknown.” How can anyone call themselves a Christian and have that attitude? Who cares if their name is known? What does that matter to the Lord? I’d just as soon be absolutely a nothing in the world’s eyes and love Jesus as to be known 20 years from now. Have gotten to the point where I wonder if these people even care about Jesus at all, if He even matters a tiny bit to them. They sure don’t think very much for what He said–except for a few verses in John 8 and Matthew 7 that turn right on their heads.
Max wrote:
Or 11 words 7 times!
Burwell wrote:
Most importantly, he is not spiritually qualified, and definitely weak in the humility area, but strong in the “humility” area (real vs. a part of the act)!
@ Law Prof:
Amen.
Lydia wrote:
Or as Bobby Jamieson put it in his 9Marks “Pastors, Don’t Let Your People Resign Into Thin Air” article, “The troubler of First Baptist Smallville”.
That was a very comprehensive rundown of Perry Noble. One thing missing (off the top of my head) was Noble’s emphatic defense of playing AC/DC’s “Highway to Hell” on Easter Sunday… at the first Elephant Room, he insisted that his decision to use that song was “spirit-led” and NOT simply to “piss off the congregation” (his words). Months later, at a pastors’ conference, he admitted… “So I asked myself, what would really piss off the congregation? Playing Highway to Hell on Easter!”
Law Prof wrote:
I regret not replying to Child of God, allowing the only response to be Amanda’s accusations. This is first-hand testimony to serious deficiencies very likely unchanged since Perry’s departure. I’m thinking of a slogan (not a very good one) “You can KICK the megapastor out of the megachurch, but you can’t TAKE the megapastor out of the megachurch.”
oops, also wanted to add that at the beginning of Noble’s “10 Commandments are actually promises” Christmas Eve message he claimed that God Himself told him to give that message. That is level-1 blasphemy right there… on par with Mark Driscoll’s “Jesus made mistakes” claim (which resulted in him being booted and Mars Hill imploding mere months after that message)
@ Keri:
“– in 20 years our church will still be going strong …”
You mean like Mars Hill in Seattle? Look, it’s hard to be part of a church that goes through these types of things. Perry would do well to not post his dirty laundry on facebook, and it’s not important to protect him from these things. I find it funny that he’s posting a rant on facebook while others have posted their share of issues on public sites, blogs, and profiles and have been either forced to submission and discipline, or publicly rebuked.
@ WillysJeepMan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os2zwB47upI
@ Jeffrey J . Chalmers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WtoO03ICS0
An Attorney wrote:
When “contemporary church” hit the American scene, my dear father thought he would go check one out to see what made them tick. He was welcomed with coffee and donuts in the foyer and escorted to a folding chair in the sanctuary – he thought that was odd. Instead of hymn books, they projected the 7-11 lyrics on the wall. I called him that night to see what he thought about his visit there. I’ll never forget his response “The coffee was OK, but the singing was off the wall!”
He also counseled me when I was a young man venturing out on my own “Son, if you ever get on a bus and find that it’s going the wrong way, get off at the first stop.” That little bit of wisdom has protected me at various points on my long journey, especially in church!
I’m an old fuddy-duddy sort of guy. But, I’ve never had a problem with form as long as there is some substance to it.
Law Prof wrote:
Right??
Hello, pride.
WillysJeepMan wrote:
Sign of maturity right there!
WillysJeepMan wrote:
One Word: GIMMICK.
“See How Clever/Outrageous I AM?”
Or just more Alcoholic Logic.
Max wrote:
Actually, “hootchy-kootchy” is somewhat archaic (unless you’re Pat Robertson).
I’d have used “T&A” or “Tight Pants Jiggle” — break out the dance poles!
JYJames wrote:
Or a wanna-be Rave look.
Alcohol abuse brings out a lot of bad character traits in the drinker; however, it obscures many problems as well. Many alcoholics use alcohol to self medicate mental illness/emotional distress; with sobriety, these untreated problems will begin to manifest. Perry Noble looks unhinged in that video. I suspect that sobriety is just one baby step toward mental and emotional wellness for him. He still has a long, long way to go.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
That’s because I’m archaic, HUG.
Max wrote:
I remember the, “hootchy- kootchy”, girl well. She was always on Merv Griffin’s show in the 70’s. She was a one act wonder!
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
My teenagers would use “twerking”.
I came here for a few rants from the Perry Noble faithful, and I was NOT disappointed!
Read the comments on the Facebook post (with the video) to see some amazing mental gymnastics and twisting of scripture.
It’s somewhat funny, but it’s mostly sad and disturbing.
It makes me think of how many in churches are fine with or seek out authoritarian leaders. That urge goes beyond the church walls unfortunately.
OutsideLookingIn wrote:
Yes– I read probably too many of the Facebook comments….. Even mild and constructive criticism was met with strong and strange rebuke from fans. Then I compounded my problems by reading Steven Furtick’s FB correction of a satiric piece no normal person would believe. When a commenter asked Steven (no reply by him, of course) about his paycheck or mansion, fans attacked with every kind of excuse and ad hominem possible.
@dee any updates on Pete Wilson? Similar stories that came out around the same time, and I’m curious
Law Prof wrote:
That’ll work.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
Thanks, sorry I was unclear. Over the years I have seen many come here and blame the Deebs and commenters here for publicizing bad behavior when if anyone should do it it should be the fellow believers first.
I loathe those who wish to engage in information management, those who try to hide facts lest someone come to something other than the “proper” conclusion.
OutsideLookingIn wrote:
There are a couple in the comments section of this article, as well. They claim to be against the way NewSpring handled this situation, but all I’m hearing is, “Poor, poor Perry!!”
@ Serving Kids In Japan:
Whoops! Forgot the link:
http://churchleaders.com/news/307243-newspring-church-answers-question-hasnt-perry-noble-invited-back-speak.html?utm_content=buffer414f5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
David J wrote:
I agree. They are quitters.
OutsideLookingIn wrote:
When one reads the Bible without the Holy Spirit as teacher, mental gymnastics and twisting of Scripture can be expected. Many in the American church attend a weekly meeting to hear a man interpret the Scriptures for them, rather than reading it themselves daily and praying that the Holy Spirit would reveal Truth to them. It’s the dilemma of living in a quick-fix, fast-food society. “Tell me what I need to know, so I don’t have to study it myself!”
Serving Kids In Japan wrote:
Invoke Mutant Superpower of Induce Guilt/Pity Me Pity Me Pity Me.
AKA “Shine the Stupid Ray on My faithful.”
Isn’t the most common trait of a Sociopath the ability to turn the tables, play the Poor Innocent Victim, and Induce Pity for Poor Poor Pitiful Me?
Anon A wrote:
I am as well. I did find updates from Pete himself, though. CrossPoint has a new head pastor for whom Pete wishes all the best. And he’s taking a bit of a sabbatical from social media:
“To be the friend I think I’m called to be, I need a few less distractions.
Bottom line: God is doing some really cool things in my life right now and I want to make sure I don’t miss it. I’m convinced more than ever before that God is not through with me, but I honestly, for the life of me, can’t figure out what is next in this chapter. So I need to quiet the noise. I’ve got to get this next chapter right and hear from Him clearly.”
I have a guess what that next chapter might be, but only someone with inside info could confirm it.
@ Dave A A:
Crosspoint’s new pastor seems really great. Don’t know much about him outside of a few messages I’ve seen. Not Pete-like AT ALL, and seems to be truly humble. Megachurches need more leaders like that.
Who knows what that next chapter for Pete will be. I’d imagine there’s something young and blonde involved.
I tend to avoid people who smile like that.
Dew wrote:
There’s just something about a nearly 50 year old preacher acting like a goober that bothers me, too.
Anon A wrote:
Just hypothetically, if my imaginary friend had thousands of adoring fans who believed in him, and believed it’s OK not to be OK, it would be a piece of cake for him to remarry after a divorce. (or even just go public with a new young blonde) The next chapter could just write itself and the fans would love my friend’s new wife or girlfriend.
If, however, my friend had already been sleeping with his future Mrs while he was her boss, still married and still a tired out, overworked pastor, the fans might not appreciate the happy news. Therefore, my friend might want to distance himself a bit from the fans until the next chapter has been written. Just hypothetically, if my friend existed, which he doesn’t.
BOMBSHELL
https://businessfilings.sc.gov/BusinessFiling/Entity/Profile/a4998dd8-5a76-474b-9f01-f28fa5e508cb
So Perry Noble has filed to start a new business called Second Chance Church? What could possibly go wrong?