Is anyone watching the new episode of Leah Remini’s Scientology show? I couldn’t help but think that the L Ron Hubbard books of policies reminds me of this:
*An open discussion post*
Is anyone watching the new episode of Leah Remini’s Scientology show?
I don’t have cable, so I haven’t been able to watch.
That list of John Piper books? ugh. Some stuff I won’t be reading: “Volume 8: A Sweet and Bitter Providence, Think, Bloodlines, Five Points, & Does God Desire All To Be Saved?” and whatever thoughts he has about Esther and Ruth. Stay Away, John!
I just watched the Keepers last week, though. I can’t get that out of my head at the moment.
The episode was a discussion panel with Remini and Mike Rinder with several other journalists and dissidents. It was a little bit more of the same, but still very interesting.
They said the way Scientologists treats their critics is all contained in the “policies”. Apparently, years worth of Hubbard’s writings were assembled in a multi volume set and included the policies. Which sounds like that release from Piper. The policies included that, and then things as minute as how L Ron Hubbard wanted you to wash windows.
I absolutely agree it’s like neo-Calvinism. A few posts ago, Dee said the appeal of Calvinism is that it isn’t legalistic, and for neo-Calvinism, that’s baloney. It just exchanged no drinking and dancing to a far weirder form where you’re supposed to perceive unenlightened states of mind from your fellow church members and then to fix them. See: Thom Rainer saying you’re not a “fully functioning member of the body of Christ” if you’re not in a small group.
See: Thom Rainer saying you’re not a “fully functioning member of the body of Christ” if you’re not in a small group.
In early 2009, I was involved in the replant of a Southern Baptist church, and I had been one of the most enthusiastic participants.
As we approached the official launch of the new church, it felt like things were starting to get more rigid (on the part of the church leaders). Others besides my husband and I were getting the same vibe, so a Q&A session was held. During that meeting someone asked “What will happen if I join the church plant and decide not to participate in a community group?”
One of the leaders responded: “Well, they would be put under church discipline.”
That was the LAST STRAW! So grateful we walked away.
As we approached the official launch of the new church, it felt like things were starting to get more rigid (on the part of the church leaders). Others besides my husband and I were getting the same vibe, so a Q&A session was held. During that meeting someone asked “What will happen if I join the church plant and decide not to participate in a community group?”
One of the leaders responded: “Well, they would be put under church discipline.”
That was the LAST STRAW! So grateful we walked away.
I am glad that you and your husband walked away, Deb.
I have gone back to the people who were harmed at my ex-NeoCalvinist/9Marxists/John MacArthur-ite gulag (Grace Bible Fellowship of Silicon Valley) and apologized to them for being forced out or excommunicated and shunned, lied about before everyone on trumped up charges.
It broke my heart. I couldn’t sleep. It weighed on my conscience. Jesus said that we would know His disciples by our Love, not our excommunications, shunnings, and lying.
Former church members said that I was the ONLY person who came to them to apologize. That no one else has done that.
I started to notice that according to the Thom Rainers of the world, the worst things you can ever do as a Christian all have to do with leaving and tithing. Give me a break. Also, see: Kevin DeYoung’s “plodders” article.
I am glad that you and your husband walked away, Deb.
Not only did we walk away, Dee and I started this blog within weeks. It definitely was an impetus for me.
@ Velour:
For clarification, did you feel you needed to apologize because as a church member you didn’t speak up about what was being done to dissenters at your former church?
The summer and fall before the re-launch of the church, we had formed community groups, which met every other week, and I joyfully participated, attending almost every time.
The problem I had was the mandatory requirement. Talk about legalism!
Velour wrote:
I am glad that you and your husband walked away, Deb.
Not only did we walk away, Dee and I started this blog within weeks. It definitely was an impetus for me.
@ Velour:
For clarification, did you feel you needed to apologize because as a church member you didn’t speak up about what was being done to dissenters at your former church?
Yes, Deb. I apologized for being silent.
It was very confusing what happened at my ex-church. The pastors/elders would malign some sweet Christian before all of us and tell us to never have contact with them again. We had been in sweet fellowship with them prior to being ordered to stay after Sunday church services. We only heard the pastors/elders’ side of the story. And there was a real disconnect from what we knew — from what I knew — about these church members.
Then I saw the same abusive pattern repeat itself, and I knew that the problem was the pastors/elders and NOT the church members.
1
Rest and relax, Dee and Deb.
Thanks for all you do.
drstevej wrote:
Faster than a Cheetah!
*An open discussion post*
Is anyone watching the new episode of Leah Remini’s Scientology show? I couldn’t help but think that the L Ron Hubbard books of policies reminds me of this:
https://www.christianbook.com/the-collected-works-john-piper-volumes/john-piper/9781433546273/pd/546273
Stan wrote:
I have!
Wonderful. Reminds me of how the NeoCalvinists operate.
Stan wrote:
I don’t have cable, so I haven’t been able to watch.
That list of John Piper books? ugh. Some stuff I won’t be reading: “Volume 8: A Sweet and Bitter Providence, Think, Bloodlines, Five Points, & Does God Desire All To Be Saved?” and whatever thoughts he has about Esther and Ruth. Stay Away, John!
I just watched the Keepers last week, though. I can’t get that out of my head at the moment.
The episode was a discussion panel with Remini and Mike Rinder with several other journalists and dissidents. It was a little bit more of the same, but still very interesting.
They said the way Scientologists treats their critics is all contained in the “policies”. Apparently, years worth of Hubbard’s writings were assembled in a multi volume set and included the policies. Which sounds like that release from Piper. The policies included that, and then things as minute as how L Ron Hubbard wanted you to wash windows.
I absolutely agree it’s like neo-Calvinism. A few posts ago, Dee said the appeal of Calvinism is that it isn’t legalistic, and for neo-Calvinism, that’s baloney. It just exchanged no drinking and dancing to a far weirder form where you’re supposed to perceive unenlightened states of mind from your fellow church members and then to fix them. See: Thom Rainer saying you’re not a “fully functioning member of the body of Christ” if you’re not in a small group.
http://thomrainer.com/2015/07/i-will-nine-traits-of-the-outwardly-focused-christian-rainer-on-leadership-142/
And also: Redemption™ Groups = auditing.
Stan wrote:
In early 2009, I was involved in the replant of a Southern Baptist church, and I had been one of the most enthusiastic participants.
As we approached the official launch of the new church, it felt like things were starting to get more rigid (on the part of the church leaders). Others besides my husband and I were getting the same vibe, so a Q&A session was held. During that meeting someone asked “What will happen if I join the church plant and decide not to participate in a community group?”
One of the leaders responded: “Well, they would be put under church discipline.”
That was the LAST STRAW! So grateful we walked away.
Deb wrote:
Bananas!
Deb wrote:
I am glad that you and your husband walked away, Deb.
I have gone back to the people who were harmed at my ex-NeoCalvinist/9Marxists/John MacArthur-ite gulag (Grace Bible Fellowship of Silicon Valley) and apologized to them for being forced out or excommunicated and shunned, lied about before everyone on trumped up charges.
It broke my heart. I couldn’t sleep. It weighed on my conscience. Jesus said that we would know His disciples by our Love, not our excommunications, shunnings, and lying.
Former church members said that I was the ONLY person who came to them to apologize. That no one else has done that.
I am so glad that I did. I can sleep now.
@ Deb:
I started to notice that according to the Thom Rainers of the world, the worst things you can ever do as a Christian all have to do with leaving and tithing. Give me a break. Also, see: Kevin DeYoung’s “plodders” article.
Velour wrote:
Not only did we walk away, Dee and I started this blog within weeks. It definitely was an impetus for me.
@ Velour:
For clarification, did you feel you needed to apologize because as a church member you didn’t speak up about what was being done to dissenters at your former church?
@ Deb:
Addendum to my comment:
The summer and fall before the re-launch of the church, we had formed community groups, which met every other week, and I joyfully participated, attending almost every time.
The problem I had was the mandatory requirement. Talk about legalism!
Day off? There’s no Day off in blogging…..
In my best Tmo Hanks League of Their Own voice…..
Deb wrote:
Wonderful!
Deb wrote:
Yes, Deb. I apologized for being silent.
It was very confusing what happened at my ex-church. The pastors/elders would malign some sweet Christian before all of us and tell us to never have contact with them again. We had been in sweet fellowship with them prior to being ordered to stay after Sunday church services. We only heard the pastors/elders’ side of the story. And there was a real disconnect from what we knew — from what I knew — about these church members.
Then I saw the same abusive pattern repeat itself, and I knew that the problem was the pastors/elders and NOT the church members.
Deb wrote:
HA! Makes me think of Snow (president of PANEM) and his ‘mandatory viewing’ of propaganda videos…