These two quotes about survivors remind me of Michael, Brooks and Kenny.
From ― Jeanne McElvaney, Healing Insights: Effects of Abuse for Adults Abused as Children link
“You can recognize survivors of abuse by their courage. When silence is so very inviting, they step forward and share their truth so others know they aren't alone.”
"Survivors of abuse show us the strength of their personal spirit every time they smile.”
Highpoint Collierville taken by a reader who said "Highpoint Collierville is surrounded by upscale neighborhoods…the kind with perfectly manicured lawns and white fences (the kind that looks like they belong on a horse farm). " (Thank you for your help.)
*Trigger Warning* Graphic yet necessary details.
Things are rapidly moving along as the truth begins to travel throughout Memphis and elsewhere.
Here are a few things I can tell you at this moment. Keep these guys in your prayers. Some good things are happening due to the courage of these men. Amy and I cannot wait to share them with you.
1. Chris Carwile, the alleged molester, has been placed on leave from his job with the city of Memphis.
This is important. His job involved a reading program at the Memphis Public Library and he might have had access to children. He has been in this job for a number of years. We applaud the Memphis Library for their wise decision.
2. Chris Carwile appears to be removing his pictures and access to his social media.
For example, Chris was involved with the Nerd 901 website for some time. He was one of the four people who ran the blog. His picture and bio were removed sometime in the last two days.
3. On October 30, 2015, Michael sent a letter to Scott to confront him over his handling of their abuse.
Here is the entire letter. This letter is well worth the read. Some of it will seem familiar from Wednesday's post. Do you want to see how child sex abuse victims live with the memory of their trauma? Here is is, spelled out by one brave man.
October 23, 2015
Dr. Scott Payne
Lead Pastor
The Church at Schilling Farms 1035 Winchester Blvd Collierville, TN 38017
Dear Scott:
I want to begin this letter with best wishes for you and your family. As you know, I have remained close with Alli over the years, and so I want to be clear that the contents of this letter are not intended to be an affront to you or your family. I do sincerely hope that you, Billie, Amanda, Jason, Alli and your extended family are well.
I need to get something off my chest, and I hope you’ll hear me out. I want to tell you a story. You already know the Cliff’s Notes version of it, but now I want to fill in the details and share with you my observations as a grown man nearly two decades later. I want you to read every word, as uncomfortable as it may be, and, in the end, I want you to help me right a wrong.
When I joined Immanuel Baptist Church the youth group was growing rapidly, with buzz about the contemporary youth outreach programs spreading like wildfire through Germantown, Collierville, and other Memphis suburbs. As you know, Nolan Bobbitt was the youth pastor at the time. During my sophomore year of high school, a college student named Chris Carwile began attending IBC. Nolan eventually hired him as an associate youth pastor — or intern, depending on whom you ask. He headed up drama programs for worship services, among other things.
After my sophomore year, I participated in an exclusive program Nolan devised called “Students Entering an Awesome Life of Service” — S.E.A.L.S., a reference to the highly trained Navy SEALs. Chris was my mentor in S.E.A.L.S.; meaning we would get together to go through “homework assignments,” analyze chapters and books of the Bible, pray, and so forth.
One night, we had a sleepover at Chris’s parents house on Dee Road (where he lived at the time). We discussed Romans Chapter 1, I believe, in the rather dingy living room at the back of his house. His dad drank Milwaukee’s Best beer, and there was lots of it in the fridge. After we finished with Romans we watched TV for a bit.
When it was bedtime Chris explained that I would have to sleep in the bed with him because his mother worried that “oils” from my skin would damage the carpet if I slept on the floor. For some reason he mentioned that she would be up early in the morning to vacuum. (Apparently Mama Carwile really loved her carpet.) Anyway, I thought nothing of it. Why would I?
One of the first things I noticed about the bedroom was that Chris had heavy blankets over his windows. He said it was to keep the light out because he liked to sleep in. I’m not a morning person, either, so I completely understood. We went to bed and I eventually dozed off. I woke up sometime after 2 a.m.., which is not unusual for me. I think I’m a pretty a heavy sleeper, but I often wake up in the middle of the night. Upon waking I quickly realized that Chris had his hand wrapped tightly around my erect penis over my boxers.
I thought there had been some mistake. He was clearly asleep and had accidentally grabbed onto something he shouldn't’t have. I’ve woken up hugging a pillow before. Maybe this was just a coincidence along those lines. It was the most rational explanation my adolescent mind could conjure up in my groggy, confused state. So I tried to pry his hand off. He had short, fat, somewhat rough fingers. I remember that detail for some reason. His hand didn’t budge, so I rolled over thinking that by doing so, it would cause him to release. He did. But in doing so, I pulled his body closer to mine. I can still feel his hot breath on the back of my neck as I laid there trying to pretend everything was OK, that what had just happened was all a big misunderstanding, and that it was safe to go back to sleep.
I eventually passed out again after tossing and turning a bit (for safe measure). It turns out that was a mistake. I woke back up around 4 a.m.. to find Chris’s hands on me again. I froze, pretending to be asleep while I formulated a strategy for getting out of this jam. I had an idea: I would just roll over onto my stomach! You see, I was still convinced that he was asleep and that this was just a bizarre sleep behavior — like sleepwalking or sleep talking, just with hands. It didn’t work. His hands moved, finding their way into my underwear, between my buttocks. I pretended to groggily wake up. Good, that stopped him. After a few minutes of emphatic tossing and turning I got up and went to the bathroom. I wanted to get away so I could gather my thoughts (and pee). Certain I couldn’t escape, I took a gamble that by “waking up” I had fended off further groping, and that there still was a chance it was unintentional. I thought I had done enough.
I was wrong. After returning to the dungeon-like room, I fell back to sleep. Upon waking, I saw that there were flecks of light around the edges of the blankets covering the windows. The sun was rising. It was probably 6 a.m.. His hands were on me again, but this time it was much worse.
He had placed my left hand on his hard penis. In my slumber, Chris managed to pull my boxers down enough to completely access my private parts. He had clearly been masturbating my penis for some time, as I ejaculated within moments of coming to — making a mess all over the covers, my T-shirt, my body. I lay there, frozen in place and time: my eyes sealed shut, my body limp, my mind racing. He got up and went to the restroom. I don’t know if he got up to masturbate, turned on by his conquest, just to clean himself off, or to pee. Who knows, and who cares? He never cleaned me off, I do know that much. Doing so would have woken me up (officially). It would have been a confession to his crime.
A couple years later, I would learn that similar incidents occurred to other young boys in our youth group, ranging from ages 13–17. We found out about each other by happenstance. None of us had told anyone else, including our parents and church leaders like you. What happened next has haunted me almost as much as that dark summer night in East Memphis.
We talked to our parents separately to decide what to do. We, the abused, all decided the same thing: we wanted Chris out of the church, but we didn’t want to press charges and we certainly didn’t want anyone to find out who didn’t need to know.
I never asked the others outright why they made that choice, I only know the one, very specific reason I did. I have known since I was roughly 11 years old that I was “different.” Specifically, that I was attracted to other boys and not girls. I didn’t know there was a name for it at that age, but I ultimately learned the terminology (homosexual, gay, etc.) thanks to a Focus on the Family video series featuring the anti-gay hate group’s founder Dr. James Dobson. Bill Sorrell, the youth pastor at my previous church, Audubon Park Baptist Church, had made us watch the whole series one summer during Wednesday evening services when I was in middle school. In other words, I learned that being gay was wrong because the Christian church had taught me so.
Fast-forward to that night at Chris’s house: I thought I had brought the violation onto myself — that it was God’s punishment for being gay, that He was screaming at me, “Is this really what you want?” I was embarrassed. After learning that homosexuality was a sin at APBC, I prayed innumerable times that God would fix me. I was fearful that if anyone found out what happened with Chris that I would be bullied and harassed — that I would be outed to my family, my friends, and my church. I hated myself.
There were other reasons, too. I was not an outgoing kid. I was terrified of confrontation. I worried that I would have to stand in front of Chris, my parents, church leaders, and answer for my accusations. I didn’t want the attention. I worried about retribution. I couldn’t prove anything. I didn’t have evidence. If I brought my claim forward and failed to incriminate my attacker, my peers and/or the public would ostracize me. No teen wants that. I had already struggled with the events of that night for years, and I didn’t think there was anything we could do except to keep Chris from attending church services and programs. That was relief in and of itself, so that was sufficient for me.
I regret that choice I made. I regret that I was a coward and let my abuser have his way with me — both in his bedroom and in my mind. Odds are he has abused other minors since then. Perhaps some were members of IBC, or perhaps members of other congregations. According to Darkness to Light, serial child molesters may average as many as 400 victims in their lifetime. Consider also that research has found three-out-of-four adolescents who were sexually abused were victimized by someone they knew. I know of at least five teens that were molested by Chris during a single year at IBC. How many others have been violated since then? That question terrifies me. I feel a keen sense of responsibility to any potential victims out there.
I have been called a faggot, among other names, since I can remember. But it’s not those verbal wounds from bullies that stuck with me; it’s the silence of my allies. I suffered from depression and anxiety for years after I was molested. When I was 19 I wrote a “will” giving away my belongings to friends and family. I hadn’t planned to take any action. Nonetheless, in the dozen or so handwritten pages was coded language about how I had ineffectively prayed God would change me, how the sexual abuse had traumatized me, and how I couldn’t go on dealing with the ramifications of both. I moved on, but I quit going to church by the time I was 22 or 23. I ran.
Shortly after I came out of the closet as gay when I was 25, an opportunity arose to move to Nashville. I seized it. I ran again. I hoped to avoid coming out to extended family, old friends, people from Immanuel (then Life Church, now The Church). It was an exciting time, but it didn’t last. The depression and anxiety I had been running from finally caught up to me. That illness led me to rock bottom. The scars on my wrists today are a living testament to the long- term effects trauma can have on a young person, particularly when criminals are protected rather than prosecuted by institutions like the church whose purpose is to shelter the innocent.
You may be wondering why I’m bringing all of this up now. Well, this is actually the most important part of this whole story. I was recently catching up with an old friend who happens to have been one of Chris’s victims. We somehow got on the subject of how we handled the situation, our regrets, and how the paths our lives have taken are linked to those events. He told me that in a meeting with you, you confirmed that Chris had confessed to his sins, if you will.
You explained that Chris discounted some of the victims, saying he molested some of us “more” than to others. But then my friend said something alarming. He told me that you said it was different for me because I wanted it to happen. That, essentially, because of the way I am, I brought it on myself.
I don’t want to believe you said that, but I also know this person to be one of the most honest and upstanding humans I have ever known. You and Nolan, on the other hand, swept the whole ordeal under the rug at the church. So, who am I to believe? I am writing this letter because, though I hadn’t thought about that period of my life in a very long time, hearing those words filled me with rage … and remorse. Not only do I regret not holding Chris accountable for the criminal that he is, but I regret not holding my church — you and Nolan in particular — accountable what happened on your watch to the children under your care.
I want to give you an opportunity to answer to this very serious accusation. You and I have never once had a conversation about what occurred at IBC those many years ago, so I can’t speak to what is or is not in your heart. But I am asking you to share that with me now. Did you ever say to anyone that I wanted to be molested by Chris Carwile? Did you ever say anything that could have been misconstrued as such? What did you say about Chris and his victims? Do you regret not fulfilling your legal and moral duty as a pastoral leader and CEO of one of God’s churches? What say you? I’m listening. Earnestly. I want to know so that I can make the best decision going forward.
I am no longer a coward. I refuse to keep running. Having all of this come roaring back into my psyche has empowered me and given me a sense of purpose. I must help in some way to right the wrong. I must finally stand up for myself as well as the countless, unnamed victims of Chris’s abuse. (For all victims of sexual abuse, really.) Too often the church has been a haven for molestation, rape, and other forms of exploitation. Historically, the church has closed ranks in times like these. It has protected the institution first and foremost before protecting the vulnerable. Though I expressed my regret above, it’s time to move forward and take bold action to ensure that Chris is never allowed near young boys ever again. I want to give you a chance to answer directly to me for the words you supposedly uttered about me and for the way you chose to handle our situation before I decide what additional actions to take. I’m listening.
Sincerely, Michael Hansen
P.S. Chris’s mother did vacuum the entire house some time after the assault reached its climax, for what it’s worth.
4. Kenny Stubblefield (one of the victims) met with Lead Pastor, Chris Conlee of Highpoint, on November 24, 2015.
Kenny had discovered that Highpoint had announced a *merger* with Scott Payne's church on November 22,2015. Kenny wanted to warn him of the issues surrounding Payne's response to their reports of sexual abuse. He wanted to be sure that Highpoint would not allow Scott on the pastoral staff .
Chris allegedly knew about the contents of Michael's letter to Scott at this meeting. Also present at this meeting was Scott Willard, Kenny's old Sunday School teacher who was aware of the abuse. Conlee allegedly told Kenny that Scott would never be a pastor but this was not conveyed to the church until after the *merger* was complete, around December 28, 2015.
Highpoint told Shilling Farms church members that Scott would be an associate pastor in the newly merged organization.,
5. This consolidation with Highpoint had been discussed as being a merger, even written that way in some of the documents.
During their meeting, they talked about the merger. Yesterday, we had a reader from Highpoint deny that this was ever a merger. Funny thing about that. Please note the word *merger.*
6. Kenny relates what he was told in a conversation with Chris Conlee regarding the abuse .
Chris told Kenny that he wanted Kenny to get healing. Kenny, frustrated, said he was dealing with his healing but he wanted Chris to understand that the victims wanted mediation with Scott. This was not to be.
Later, Chris allegedly told Kenny the following, not necessarily in this order:
- Sometimes its better not to tell the truth because the truth can hurt people.
- Your version of the truth may not be the same as Scott's version of the truth.
- Yet both can be the truth.
Chris went on to explain his *theology.* He allegedly said that the book of John is different than the synoptic gospels but all 4 tell the truth from differing perspective.
This is fractured theology. None of the Gospel accounts say one thing like "Jesus healed the leper" and the other "Jesus didn't heal the lepers." At this time, Scott was denying the abuse. So it either happened or it didn't. Both cannot be right. Time to go back to seminary, boys.
Highpoint Church releases a statement and the victims respond.
HIGHPOINT CHURCH OFFICIAL STATEMENT
Recently, social media communications surfaced regarding the relationship of Highpoint Church with The Church at Schilling Farms (formerly Immanuel Baptist Church). The allegations are of a serious nature involving past sexual abuse. These events did not occur at Highpoint Church, nor were any Highpoint leaders or partners involved. The alleged sexual abuse happened over 18 years ago — before Highpoint Church even existed.
Highpoint first explored a merger with The Church at Schilling Farms in October 2014. Highpoint leadership, along with the Elders at The Church at Schilling Farms, agreed to a merger in the Fall of 2015. After these discussions, both Highpoint leadership and the Elders at The Church at Schilling Farms became aware of accusations of past sexual abuse and inappropriate conduct toward minors by a former intern at Immanuel Baptist Church.
Upon learning of that news, we immediately took action in three ways: we attempted to provide pastoral guidance to the individuals involved; we sought wise, legal counsel from our attorney; and we redefined our future relationship with The Church at Schilling Farms. One aspect of redefining this relationship was the decision that the Pastor of The Church at Schilling Farms would not serve on staff at Highpoint Church.
Due to the serious nature of this situation, the leadership at Highpoint Church, in agreement with the leadership at The Church at Schilling Farms, decided to restructure the relationship between the two churches from a merger to a lease agreement for the facility at 1035 E. Winchester Blvd. We confidently moved forward with this lease agreement because of our commitment to minister to the Collierville community knowing true reconciliation and resolution could only occur between the parties involved.
Highpoint Church has always been committed to providing healing to the hurting, and circumstances like these only reinforce our commitment.
Please join us as we pray for all those involved. Thank you.
Short Response from Victims
It leaves a lot to be desired. A whole lot. Not only is it inaccurate in saying that they provided pastoral guidance (we had a phone call with Chris Conlee regarding mediation, and did not get counseling), but it is further evidence of the fact that they did what they could to make sure this story never came to light and harm their institutional power.
By renegotiating the merger with The Church at Schilling Farms and not hiring Scott Payne, all they did was avoid potential liability. That did nothing for us as victims seeking answers and justice. Why didn't they expose what had happened? Why did they lie and say "nothing sinister is going on" … from the pulpit of all places.
I'm reminded of the King quote, "justice delayed is justice denied." All Highpoint has done by their actions since they learned of our abuse is help to delay justice.
Where is the former pastor Scott Payne?
He did not return my phone call but he is apparently under some stress as evidenced by his Facebook.
However, Brooks and others had this to say about Scott's comment.
Jeremy Wright, current pastor of Cherokee Baptist Church, gets it!
As you may remember, Chris Carwile left Immanuel Baptist Church and went on to be a youth worker at Cherokee Baptist Church. That church was allegedly not informed of the reports of sexual abuse. Today, I almost started to cry when I saw that this pastor tagged Amy and me on Twitter. We need more pastors like Jeremy Wright!
Much, much to talk about this weekend and more to come on Monday. Your comments will be read by the victims and your insights and thoughts are welcome.
The following song is dedicated to all those who have survived abused with special thanks to Michael, Brooks, and Kenny who are the overcoming ones in this story. Thank you for allowing Amy and me into your lives. We are privileged to tell your stories.
1st
sure is a week of disturbing things.
Thank you Deebs (Dee and Deb) for these brave, transparent stories. Thanks to Amy at Watchkeep too for posting about them.
And most of all, thank you to the brave survivors.
We need to really get it together in our churches, so many of them are unsafe for children.
“The scars on my wrists today are a living testament to the long- term effects trauma can have on a young person, particularly when criminals are protected rather than prosecuted by institutions like the church whose purpose is to shelter the innocent.”
powerful statement!
@ drstevej:
Impressive reflexes, dude!
ok, i’m a puddle — that is just the sweetest, most touching song…
“Chris told Kenny that he wanted Kenny to get healing. Kenny, frustrated, said he was dealing with his healing but he wanted Chris to understand that the victims wanted mediation with Scott. This was not to be.”
+++++++++++++
Chris, it’s as if you said, “Let them eat cake.”
elastigirl wrote:
Chris does not get it at all! He does not understand the additional harm he has done to these three men and to others who may have been harmed by the abuser because a church hid the truth.
Well, that letter ripped me up, thinking of a young man trapped in that ugly situation, not knowing how to respond, how to escape. The predator was obviously well prepared and knew exactly what he planned to do. He was well practiced.
The pastor’s responses in this situation seem like those of someone who is expecting a major attack. Is it possible he is battening down the hatches because there is still something more to the story? Were there other victims? This isn’t an accusation, I’m just trying to make sense out of his (to me) overreaction.
Jeremy Wright, on the other hand, is a light in a dark place.
I think that the word “counsel” lends itself quite well to misunderstanding. It can mean seeing a therapist, getting advice from a friend, a meeting or phone call where someone tells you what to do, or just a few well meaning words given by someone. It’s really open to interpretation. I think we’ve seen other situations where victims were said to have received “counseling” but it was just a talk with the pastor (where he pressured them to keep things quiet).
I thought the idea that people can have different “truths” was something we Christians were supposed to stand against? Sure, we can have different perspectives and different opinions, but truth is truth.
There are a couple different Chris Carwiles on mugshots.com
I hope Michael knows now that he was never a coward. He froze in horror and disbelief during the assaults, and then made the best of an impossible situation as a traumatized young teen. The courage it’s taken to go public with all of this is really inspiring, in a week filled with sadness and fear.
Velour wrote:
They’ve have gone beyond being “survivors”.
They are working to protect potential victims, and to give courage to past and present victims.
They are gallantly exposing and fighting evil.
They are knights in shining armor, now.
Nancy2 wrote:
Love it, Nancy2.
Knights in shining armor, indeed!
I am grateful for the courage of the victims who have the strength to speak the truth of their abuse even when it hurts, and help to bring it out into the open.
I recall reading that Pastor Chris at HP was given his first opportunity to preach by Pastor Scott. And perhaps was mentored by Pastor Scott for some time.
elastigirl wrote:
I was thinking more along the lines of, “Go and be well. Stay warm and well fed.”
Thank you for bravely covering this topic. I would advise anyone in Memphis thinking about attending Highpoint Church to consider this decision carefully. This action by Chris Conlee is not an isolated incident of bad judgment when it comes to kids. A friend of mine volunteered with the youth group at Highpoint called CREW. I attended a few times and what I saw shocked me.
The youth group pastor and leaders played secular rap and hip-hop music with very nasty lyrics while the kids, who are in junior and senior high (but mostly younger), were crunking and grinding on each other. For those not familiar, this is a form of simulated nasty sex in various positions. They keep the houselights turned off and use party lights during this time and during the worship and they make it pretty clear that the kids are free to treat the church and service as a nightclub. They have occasional game nights where they do stuff like blacklight dodgeball. This involves using rave accessories (the rave culture is based on drugs and sex with strangers) and they mark up their bodies and the kids use the excuse of the darkness and the games to get rather physical with each other, if you know what I mean.
Both the youth pastors and the worship leaders dress in provocative, sexy, trendy clothing. One of the worship leaders, who was quite handsome, had extremely tight jeans on and accidentally dropped something one night. The young girls were giggling at how hard it was for him to bend down to pick it up. You can see everything in those pants that the leaders wear and they seem to enjoy all the attention that they get from both girls and boys in the crowd. It is sexual attention by the way.
That’s really the best way to describe the Wednesday night youth groups at Highpoint. It is like a nightclub for junior and senior high kids. Some of the songs use the name of God and the word Jesus comes up a little in the extremely secular speech that is supposed to be a sermon, but is really a bunch of worldly expressions and jokes and street slang that doesn’t belong in the house of the Lord. The entire “service” is more or less a big secular party.
One year, for Easter, CREW at Highpoint did the theme The Walking Dead for Holy Week. They had the pastors, leaders and students dress up as zombies with very gruesome make-up and costumes. The worship band had the lead singer dress up as Michael Jackson and they did Thriller as their worship song. I hope your readers understand how insulting it is to the crucifixion of Jesus, to use zombies during Holy Week. Zombies are how Satanists and Luciferians mock the resurrection of Christ. A couple parents complained that they didn’t feel this was glorifying God during the most important Christian holiday. The leaders sniped back that it was THAT attitude that was making kids leave the church for good, thus making the parents feel guilty for doing the right thing.
Last Easter the worship leader at the main service celebrated the resurrection of Christ by doing a bizarre tribal dance where he pounded giant chains on a drum on the floor for a very long time while jumping around like a savage in the dark. It wasn’t part of some passion play. It’s just what he felt like doing to be provocative. The rest of the Easter service was a church made movie. Christ was not honored by this. Highpoint loves being edgy, superficial and provoking their audiences. Unfortunately, those qualities do not help set good examples for the kids they supervise.
The head of worship is named Josh Maze who seems obsessed with being a “trendy”. He created his own nickname and I don’t mean to be vulgar, but he called himself “J*zz Maze”. He is a young man who wears very tight pants and he publishes his nickname as J*zz (but with the “i” in it). He even had that on his bio for a while and the leadership, including Chris Conlee, thought it was hilarious. J*zz Maze was the guy pounding the drums with chains while jumping around for Easter. Conlee also seems obsessed with all that is worldly and Highpoint maintains a sharp focus on entertaining and using trite expressions that make it clear that Highpoint is a business, first and foremost.
I think people should also know that Highpoint holds Celebrate Recovery meetings at their church. They even have a Celebrate Recovery pastor on staff. I said I think people should know, because you won’t find Highpoint listing this program as one of their ministries on their website. CR is a program for addiction with a Christian element. Rick Warren’s church created it. What is important to know is that many of the people who attend CR attend for their sex addiction recovery program. Many of the people attending CR have very serious sex addictions including pedophilia. That means pedophiles are on the same campuses that these kids in their sexually charged youth group services are. CR is on Thursday nights, not Wednesday, but it is not inconceivable that there is cross-over between the two groups. My main concern is that no parents with children attending CREW at Highpoint are told that Highpoint has a weekly ministry dedicated to sex addiction which includes programs for every form of sexual deviancy.
I realize some people will think what I have written is very uptight, but I take the safety of children very seriously and I have personally seen that people in positions of authority at Highpoint do not. Reading what Kenny’s experience was like seems consistent with what I saw at HPC. HPC justifies everything they do using their motto “Love Works”, which is the title of a management book. They think they can stretch the rules by simply declaring “love works” at the end of every misdeed.
I fear that this misstep with the “merger” is just one of many red flags at this church. The fact that they are willing to parse words and think it matters to the safety of kids whether you call it a merger or an acquisition/lease should speak volumes. They aren’t renting an old grocery store by the way. The old congregation and their beliefs and habits go with this property. It is disingenuous of them to imply otherwise. Semantics don’t change this. It is still sharing resources and it is basically a joint venture. The people are still a blend of both churches, no matter what you call it.
HPC is using rapidly modified technical syntax to avoid responsibility. They basically got caught with their hands in the cookie jar so they called their lawyers and now they have redefined the meaning of hands, cookies and jar, but they still have crumbs all over their face. In the end, they are either pedophile friendly or pedophile ignorant. Take your pick, just be careful who you trust your kids with.
Of course, we are talking about a church who calls all of their baptisms “going public” so creating their motto based on a management book not the bible, then thinking calling this a lease not a merger solves their pedophile issues shouldn’t be that unexpected. To use another business term that HPC might relate to “Caveat Emptor” (buyer beware)
siteseer wrote:
There are definitely more victims, probably a lot more, many potentially with additional physical aspects to their molestation. My blood ran cold when I read about those preparations – preparation, practise… escalation. Seriously guys you have all done extraordinarily well to get on with life the way you have & you have opened a door to let the light in for the other victims. Pastor Scott needs to learn that enabling a practising paedophile is not like ordinary day-to-day ‘mistakes’ & ‘misdeeds’, it is helping a wolf feed on the lambs in the flock. The best thing he could do is stand up & say he was a fool, he did great harm & he is going to bust a gut helping victims & teaching other Pastors not to make the same mistakes. His fb post gives me no reason to hope as he’ll only be ‘friends’ with those who treat him much better than he treated you. He’s such a delicate flower. He’s a man I’d love a word with, & it would be a kind word, but a stern word: children & young people are a sacred trust from the Lord, how dare he let them down? You want to get to the kids I work with you have to get past me first, if that is not your instinct you need to step away from ‘serving’.
siteseer wrote:
and the glass IS BOTH half empty AND half full
so much that we see in our pride as ‘truth’ is merely a matter of what we are emphasizing at the moment …. we see without seeing and we hear without listening and we wonder WHY the ‘other guy’ experiences something else than we do ….
maybe part of our diversity is that within the Body of Christ, we all contribute from our own diverse gifts to build it up;
and unless we honor the gifts of one another as a part of the whole, we are cut off from something greater than ourselves ?
Who made us ‘diverse’? And why? If not to testify to the truth we see as we see it? And to share what we have witnessed with each other?
“”The eye was placed where one ray should fall, that it might testify of that particular ray.” (Emerson)
Beakerj wrote:
Let the Pastor spend some time gazing at the scars on the young victim’s wrists …. or if he will not, then let him spend an hour looking at a crucifix and let the Pastor know this:
the sin we have willingly done AND the sin of what we have willingly failed to do: that sin has the power to release an evil which is then beyond our own control in its viciousness and destructiveness
” … We are sinners, but we do not know how great. He alone knows Who died for our sins.”
(John Henry Newman)
Beakerj wrote:
Standing ovation, Beakerj.
siteseer wrote:
Yes. His ‘truth’ probably means he was in full in cya mode. He still is, I’m guessing.
To be expected from an embattled Ceo, completely wrong as an impulse in a supposed pastor. We’ve called the lawyers and they drafted this statement: stuff Jesus never said.
This comment about Michael that the pastor said really gets to me. It sort of implies to me that any male or female that wasn’t a virgin would enjoy the sexual assault. That any gay or lesbian person would welcome it. NOT SO!. Sexual assault of any kind if never enjoyed or welcomed. Evidently this pastor doesn’t understand this. Maybe he won’t, and I think a lot of pastors are just like him. Would I have enjoyed a sexual assault just because I am married, absolutely no way.
@ Beakerj:
Amen and amen.
And to the victims, those we know of and those we don’t, this was not your fault. You did not deserve this or the way you were treated afterward. This has nothing to do with who you are, anything you did or didn’t do; you are just human beings who had the misfortune to step into a snare. Your voices are powerful and will do much good.
Christiane wrote:
Which PASTOR would probably reject as “Too Romish”. (“NO POPERY!”)
It’s all Under the Blood, you know!
No offense to Mike Hansen, but this my stream-of-consciousness reaction:
Just as an aside, the retired SEAL who actually keeps the ex-SEAL personnel database (to weed out the fakes) says that for some reason a lot of the Fake SEALS are preachers.
Two items on the checklist.
Sleepover, CHECK.
Single bed, CHECK.
Victim did not mention usual next item on the checklist: being unable to find his pajama bottoms at bedtime. (Perp hid them.)
Many years ago, we had a sexual predator in local Furry Fandom (a fandom known for attracting a lot of sexual weirdness) who used the exact same checklist. Position of celebrity within the Fandom, inviting victim in on a room share at furry conventions (not suspicious in and of itself; room splits at cons are common in fandoms), except the room would be a Single King instead of a Double Double, and….
And to make sure of no witnesses.
Get the prey alone, with no witnesses, CHECK…
Prey is in the trap, and…
“I think it’s time to Make My Move.”
— Skeksis Chamberlain, The Dark Crystal
“Move” as in Stealth Attack. Now THAT’s a Predator.
Specifically, a Trapper-turned-Pouncer.
At this point, it differs from the M.O. of the Furry Fandom predator mentioned above, who was more Chaser than Pouncer; he would put more effort into grooming and persuading, with lectures on Sexual Freedom and Interests and how “Everybody’s Bi”, with an atmosphere of Moral Authority.
But I can see how that would not work in a church context, where keeping up Sexual Purity Appearances is of prime importance and positions of authority mandate being examples of Public Morality.
And after having made his kill, the predator gorges.
Except for the Christianese, a Hillary Campaign Speech: Written by attorneys and spinmeisters, vetted in advance through attorneys and focus groups.
P.S. The title sounds like a “SUEY SING TONG PROCLAMATION!” you’d find pasted on walls in San Francisco’s Chinatown 100 years ago. (That was how Chinese organized crime of the period made their announcements.)
Beakerj wrote:
You sound like a warrior woman Beaks. I applaud you. You have not forgotten the face of your father.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Is it just me or does anybody else see how meaningless and morally bankrupt this old christianese cliche is?
@ Muff Potter:
Muff Potter wrote:
I never knew what people meant by it anyway. What was it supposed to mean?
Christiane wrote:
Well when Mike Warnke used it when he was exposed as a fraud, it meant “I’ve Accepted Jesus Christ As My Personal LORD And Savior and He Hath Placed All my (unspecified) Sins Under His Blood and Washed Them Away and I Am A New Creature In Christ so WHY DO YOU KEEP BRINGING IT UP? GOD HAS FORGIVEN ME OF EVERYTHING, WHY WON’T YOU???
Christiane wrote:
It’s part of reformed theology that would have confused the early church. It means that God the Father only pretends to love us. When he sees us as we are he can only turn away in disgust and rage because he is too pure to look on evil. But when Jesus’ blood covers us he can then look at us with love because he sees Jesus rather than seeing us. We can only be spared his hot wrath if he doesn’t have to see us as we are – be he can love us if he can pretend we are not us. It would be like a man telling his wife to disguise herself as some other woman because that’s the only way he can manage to not be completely disgusted by her. It’s bad theology.
@ Memphian Guest:
OK so I got curious and had a bit of a look around
http://www.joshmaze.com
http://www.highpointmemphis.com/joshmaze
etc…
I have been out of the scene for a long time and it is shocking to see what passes for worship these days.
There is a breathtaking narcissism in all of this and it is easy to see it how it can foster and be fostered by a culture of self gratification, self promotion, self protection
To think that this kind of spiritual w*nkery has propagated itself throughout the country and the world is depressing and infuriating in equal measure.
But I suppose an objective view would suggest that it is just the latest manifestation of a tendency of the church to drift towards being little more than a cynical marketing exercise.
And (to get back to the main topic of the thread) covering your own a** is then, understandably, a key part of it…
Ken F wrote:
BINGO! Summed up in one sentence for the rot it is.
Ken F wrote:
It’s horrible.
It draws such a sharp contrast between God the Father and God the Son that it sounds like some of the early heresies that the Church fought against.
For example, it portrays God the Father in a similar way to the Marcion wrathful Hebrew God.
I’d also say that the teaching plays with the early Church’s Doctrine of the Holy Trinity big time. But we have seen so much of that also in the ESS heresy in modern times. I’m still shocked when I think about how this can be, when the Church made such efforts to preserve the teachings of the Apostles and to pass them down through the centuries, especially guarding the Doctrines of of the Holy Trinity AND Christology. Wow.
Antinomian? It also sounds like ‘sin’ is covered up rather than forgiven. If that were true, then the evil of the sin would continue to do damage to the person who had sinned. The process of repentance and confession to seek God’s forgiveness is cleansing …. it doesn’t cover over sin under blood, no. I guess these teachings are done by people who don’t believe that Christ has the power to renew sinners. ?
Christiane wrote:
Yes. I stumbled across this sermon today: . I came across this sermon today that best summarizes the issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mAoIt3u6Ww. It’s one of the best summaries of the problem with the reformed view of the atonement. Reformed theology has a hard time seeing Jesus and the Father as one. They say they are one, but they have so many pieces of their theology that say the opposite.
Memphian Guest wrote:
Not me. What you describe is absolutely heathen ….. it’s heresy.
I have no prob with kids wearing blue jeans to church on Wed. nights and doing some things that are fun/entertaining. But, This. Is. Not. Church!
What they do is no different from what goes on at a place called ClarksVegas in Clarksville, TN. ClarksVegas is simply an alcohol-free bar/club where the underage go to party.
Hi, all. I have posted a new update on the open discussion thread. Thank you all so much.
http://thewartburgwatch.com/open-discussion-page/comment-page-10/#comment-294071
http://www.gofundme.com/ljahelp
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Ah, yes! Our glorious SBC legal eagles! Great Commission be damned. It’s all about money and cya!
Beakerj wrote:
Does Pastor Scott have children? If he does, would he trust these pedophiles to be alone with his own children?
I wouldn’t leave other people’s children under the care of anyone that I would not trust with my own.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Forgiving is one thing.
Letting these people slide by without paying a penalty and giving them the perfect opportunity to take advantage of others all over again is a horse of a whole nutha color!
@ Memphian Guest:
Anyone who’s read my posts knows I’m an avowed secularist. I’m usually live and let live. But if this is true, this is one group I give a wide berth to as a parent.
Nancy2 wrote:
Frighteningly my former pastors/elders at Grace Bible Fellowship of Silicon Valley said that they entrusted their children to their friend a Megan’s List child pornographer and so should everyone else at church because he said a few words about Jesus!
Beyond dumb. Downright dangerous.
@ Memphian Guest
“The leaders sniped back that it was THAT attitude that was making kids leave the church for good, thus making the parents feel guilty for doing the right thing.”
Kids leaving that church for good sounds like the BEST thing to do.
Thanks for posting your first-hand report.
Seriously, CPS needs check out these gatherings. That place is definitely not safe for kids.
Nothing about Jesus there either. More like a place to corrupt and groom youth.
Nancy 2
Scott allegedly allowed his daughter to date Chris after finding out about the molestations.
dee wrote:
After the debacle in Moscow, Idaho, where church elders matched a young, single woman to a pedophile and Doug Wilson married them, and the couple has a baby son who is now endanger from his own father, I question the competence of many conservative Christians’ “matchmaking” abilities.
I think a group of discerning unbelievers would have more brains picking out ‘a good match’.
Muff Potter wrote:
I am small but ferocious when necessary Muff. I learned all I know from my Mother, who healed through nursing for 47 years, & to whom all kids were her kids, & all animals were her animals, if she was faced with one in need. She gave me any backbone I possess today.
@ dee:
What?? There is no sense in any of these people it seems.
@ Memphian Guest:
Fascinating! On celebrate recovery, a lot of churches seem to be promoting that. I got a flier from a local AOG church and a friend is promoting it at a different church. It’s not really sold as being about sex addition in particular so I have no idea how prevalent that kind of attendee is. In fact, it seems to be sold as being for pretty much Everyone! I’m not sure what to make of them.
The other stuff you mentioned sounds like youth group trying too hard and crossing the line, but the dodgeball black light thing sounds fun to me.
Velour wrote:
I read that the perpetrator in Moscow, Idaho was living in the same house with the young woman, several years younger, who he eventually married. May God have mercy.
Girasol wrote:
OK, just so you know I am not a prude or straitlaced: I listen to metal, all types of metal. And I’m VERY aware that some metal is not good. (I try not to listen to that.) Yes, I know, it’s weird for a middle-aged woman to admit she likes metal, but yeah, I am a headbanger.
Now that we’ve got out of the way, I went and looked at Josh Maze’s website. From the videos, you’d think we were talking about a rock band, not a church worship leader. And then, he writes several paragraphs, talking about Bob Marley as a worship leader. Yeah, you know, the same Bob Marley who was a Rastafarian. And he uses Marley as an example of what a worship leader should be like.
*shakes head violently* Really? Really? It would be as if I wrote several paragraphs about how James Hetfield of Metallica was like a worship leader. (And let me tell you, the thought never *occurred* to me before this moment.) Again, I have to emphasize that I’m not namby-pamby, that I do like amazing guitar licks and so on and so forth. But I’d never draw that comparison. (For all I know, there might be Christian metal bands with worship leaders, but I don’t know that. Maybe I should find out.) But this is just plainly weird.
Ok, now I will tell the kids outside to get off my lawn. /old
DMZ wrote:
I think they’re two different bizarre stories, same church and community.
One is the story of a lovely Christian couple The Greenfields and their family who opened their home to boarders from Doug Wilson’s church. One of the boarders ended up sexually abusing the daughter Natalie. “Pastor” Doug Wilson and his church took reprisals against the parents and the victim.
Vicious.
The other story is of a desperate young woman Katie Travis, desperate to be married, who was “matched” with a pedophile Steven Sitler who had sexually abused countless children, including a 2-year old.
http://www.moscowid.net/
Take away: Doug Wilson can’t do anything right. And he certainly can’t protect women and girls and doesn’t have a protective bone in his body.
@ Deana Holmes (fka mirele):
Don’t worry, I am also rapidly qualifying for “grumpy old” status as well!
Actually these days I find worship in all kinds of music so I have no problem in principle with Mr Maze’s various inspirations. However, in the context it does seem conflicted – another wannabe who for whatever reason doesn’t have the courage to break out of the big-fish-in-small-comfy-pond role in church-based worship/rock and seek his fortune in the wider world. As I delve around in the murky psychological depths of this, I detect a hint of something off – that involves using a young, impressionable, vulnerable and captive audience to gratify a desire that really should be being met somewhere else in a more mature way. OK maybe in this case only attention and adulation, but still just a little, I don’t know, creepy. It also sends a message that for God to get his message across he needs a tatt, a jaunty hat, some good PR and a shiny Gretsch guitar. On the other hand, maybe it is just a safe way to sublimate some interests, in leader and led, that might otherwise lead out the door and down that difficult and messy road to reality.
Deana Holmes (fka mirele) wrote:
Is de Ganja, Mon…
Velour wrote:
Wasn’t somebody upthread asking about the meaning of the Christianese cliche “It’s Under the Blood”?
Harley wrote:
You only find “They really enjoy getting raped” in two places:
1) Rapist justifying himself.
2) Pornography.
Thanks to all who read my lengthy comment. I am not old so I don’t think finding this behavior abhorrent is age specific. It is simply not God honoring in any way. I understand that kids want to have fun on Wednesdays but you don’t need to have the 12-15 year olds simulating sex to music that calls women terrible names, describing sex acts and using vile language. This wouldn’t be allowed at a public school especially with the racial slurs in the songs. There are many other ways to have fun that are not so offensive or overtly sexual.
For those who looked up Josh Maze, I am glad you can see what many others in Memphis see. I would have liked to have said more, but I thought it would sound unchristian. He is not a good influence on anyone at HPC including the other staff.
As for Celebrate Recovery, they advertise they are for anyone with “hurts, habits or hangups” meaning it is open to anyone. However, people I know involved with CR have said that almost everyone attending is struggling with an addiction. AA and NA offer excellent well established programs. Although they are not overtly Christian, like CR is, they do recognize a higher power. Some members addicted to drugs and alcohol do choose to attend CR over AA or NA.
However, some of the faster growing addictions in our society are sex related ones. I imagine the mix of sex addicts verses other addicts varies by church, but according to my sources, many of the CR meetings seem to have a disproportionate number of sex addicts. Pedophiles would not necessarily identify themselves as pedophiles, but rather a person obsessed with a sexual “hang-up” since they may not want to disclose that their hang-up is also a felony. If a local CR group claims they have no pedophiles in the group, that is not necessarily the case. I am certain that CR does a lot of good for people. My main concern is that HPC conceals the existence of this ministry from parents and does not even list it as a ministry on their website. I have never attended the HPC CR so I cannot tell you what the mix is.
What I do know is that HPC does not provide a wholesome, Christian environment for kids. The pastors, worship leaders and staff seem far too obsessed with being sexy and being idolized by the flock, including the kids. Lines can be crossed in these types of situations, even if not premeditated or intended. It is better to not dress or act in a way that induces kids to idolize or lust for the adults. I watched some of the kids overtly flirt with the adult leaders who seemed to enjoy and even welcome the flattery. A lot of kids going to church do so because they are hurting and often missing certain elements of parental influence at home. That need for an adult’s affection and approval can manifest itself in dangerous and dysfunctional ways. Supervising adults should be mindful of this.
It doesn’t take that much effort to simply wear a normal outfit and lose the trendy pop idol haircuts and look more like a young, responsible adult and not like you work at a popular nightclub or voguish salon. HPC needs their staff to dress and act like they are there to share the gospel with humility and grace and to provide good role models for kids who may need one instead of spending their efforts trying dominate the room as coolest kid as though they are still in high school.
HPC concerned me before. With this new revelation, I am even more concerned.
@ Serving Kids In Japan:
Pastor Chris …. some words from the whole Church to think about:
“Omnis qui se exaltat humiliabitur.”
(his glory is to do without glory for the love of Christ.) . . . those shepherds, who seek the fiercely cleansing baptism of grace given to the truly humble, may then be enabled by God’s grace to pastor those who suffer intensely from the wounds of sexual abuse
those shepherd are out there, and they are formed according to the mind and the heart of Our Lord Himself
dee wrote:
Given the fact that Chris is only known to have molested boys, I can see where Scott would get the twisted idea that Chris was not a threat to his daughter.
Memphian Guest wrote:
Makes me wonder if these “pastors” and ” worship leaders” are performing their acts in a so-called church just because they don’t have what it takes to draw the crowds at Bridgestone Arena!
@ Christiane:
Christiane wrote:
should be Pastor Scott
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Bob Marley did leave Rastafarianism and become an Ethiopian Orthodox Christian late in life, though.
Of small comparative importance but illustrative is the Facebook ultimatum from Scott Payne: “I will be a friend to anyone willing to show love!” (And unfriend all you harmful, evil, misrepresenting goody-two-shoes– if you criticize me you must think you’re perfect!)
Compare Doug Phillips’ recent Facebook ultimatum:
“Heads up – This is a Courtesy Announcement: This Facebook page is for friendly and civil people, not cyber bullies, trolls, and individuals who claim a spiritual duty to perpetuate hateful and false narratives. It is not a place for religious or political bigotry, for profanity, for disparaging Beall or the Phillips children. You are entitled to your opinions, and we wish you well, but this Facebook page is not the place for you. Your comments will not be published and you will be blocked.”
@ Dave A A:
not being able to handle criticism? ….. lack of maturity, at best
I sure don’t think it’s ‘sensitivity’, no ….. more like knowing you’ve done something wrong (or failed to do what was right) and getting prepared to block all incoming
why are people like this in the ministry?????
Memphian Guest wrote:
You couldn’t have deliberately designed a better Pedo Hunting Ground.
Where the prey congregates, the Predators Will Swarm.
Deana Holmes (fka mirele) wrote:
“BEER GOOD! NAPSTER BAAD!”
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Yes.
I file this one, however, “It’s Under Stupidity.”
dee wrote:
Dwah?
Did he think he’d found the sure-fire “cure” for (in his mind) homosexuality? Dating the pastor’s daughter?
Or maybe it was just one more cynical way of discrediting the victims’ stories. (“See? SEE!? Chris is normal! He couldn’t possibly do anything like that!”)
It’s not a merger.
Get the joke?
https://vimeo.com/143303840
About (recovering?) sexual addicts on church campus possibly at the same time as children . . .
Here’s the Tennessee Sex Offender Registry
http://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/
Contact Information: Citizens who have information on offenders or inquiries about information contained in the state’s Sex Offender Registry can contact the Sex Offender Registry Hotline at 1 (888) 837-4170, M – F from 7 AM until 8:30 PM CDT and weekends between 7:00 AM and 5:30 PM CDT, excluding holidays, or by email at TBISORMGR@tn.gov
This sounds like the place to direct questions about a specific offender’s court ordered restrictions about proximity to children or about state laws regarding such. They can probably direct a person to someone who can answer, if they don’t know.
I know states have residency restrictions for registered offenders. I don’t know about other possible restrictions.
If sex offenders are in proximity to their children, families need to know.
Tennessee also has laws regarding lewd or sexual acts involving minors. Supervising adults who foster or even merely fail to report lewd acts, inappropriate touching, sexually exploitive acts involving children might be, at the very least, “negligent.” I am unfamiliar with Tennessee Law, so am merely conjecturing here.
Any person who has witnessed or been told about a questionable act involving a child or group of children can call CPS anonymously and describe the situation. The CPS worker will inform the caller about whether or not to officially report the incident. The report can also be made annonymously. CPS will then INVESTIGATE to find out the facts of the situation.
Whenever a child reveals inappropriate touching, please listen. Find out what you can without spooking the child. A few minutes of sexual trauma can result in a lifetime of suffering and pain for entire families.
I posted a relevant but long comment on the Open Discussion Page.
Christiane wrote:
Probably good reasons, at least in the beginning, for the Memphis folks, until a certain root of all sorts of evil takes over.
In the case of Phillips, if he decides to get back in the “ministry”, I can think of only the one-symbol reason:
$
Memphian Guest wrote:
Refresh me on this, but isn’t part of “the club scene” the reputation of a place for sexual pickups?
That beats “You spin me Right Round Right Round JESUS Right Round” and Holy Ghost Hokey Pokey combined. (And the guy in the lobster fursuit that was the previous winner of “WTF Megachurch Service”.) AND FOR HOLY WEEK? I could see something like that for Halloween (oops, that’s the Devil’s Holiday(TM)), but for HOLY WEEK AND EASTER? HIGH HOLY DAYS OF THE CHRISTIAN LITURGICAL CALENDAR? When I’m attending and fasting through three days of solemn Liturgy, from Tenebrae to Easter Vigil? (But then, that’s just Romish and they’ve Evolved Far Beyond That.)
I don’t know much about “Satanists and Luciferians” (except that a lot of it seems to be “Look at what the Christians do and Do The Exact Opposite”), but this sounds too beyond stupid even for the most Beavis-and-Butthead of them.
Dave A A wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8P80A8vy9I
(Sleaze factor deliberate)
Memphian Guest wrote:
“SEE HOW EDGY *I* AM?”
Tip: When everything’s DAARK and EDDGY, nothing is. It becomes what’s NORMAL, Old Hat, Ho-hum.
Beakerj wrote:
Such a Speshul Widdle Snowfwake.
Serving Kids In Japan wrote:
Don’t forget to add “I’ll Pray For You(TM)”.
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
And like a Hellraiser Cenobite always seeking greater and greater Sensation, the DAARK and EDDGY has to constantly get DAAARKER and EDDDGIER.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
It’s like the 4chan of churches.
Additional info: It appears the cover-upper, Pastor Scott Payne, holds a leadership position in the Mid-South Baptist Association. He’s shown on their website as part of the 2017 “Team of Encouragers.” Also Cherokee Baptist, the church to which the accused perp was allowed to migrate, is shown in the directory as a member of the Mid-South association of churches. These facts speak to how tragically abysmal Baptists are in sharing information about credibly accused clergy child molesters. Even when churches are part of the same local association, a credibly-accused clergy child molester can easily migrate to find new prey. And of course, state and national denominational entities have refused to provide resources to facilitate the sharing of such critical information among the local churches.
Christa Brown wrote:
Christa,
Why, in your opinion, are these entities so hesitant to do the right thing?
Christa Brown wrote:
This issue recently came up on another story posted here. I made this comment that there needs to be a database of both convicted and like you said credibly accused. It’s shocking in this day and age that they haven’t kicked it in gear and come up with a cohesive game plan.
Maybe it will take being sued, like other denominations, for them to kick it in gear and do something.
While the city of Memphis is investigating Chris, they should investigate Paul Williams. He is a volunteer at the Pink Palace which is under the City of Memphis (and Strawberry Plains Audubon Center) and admittedly molested a relative. It was covered up as well, but then exposed with no charges, but he is still around children. Doesn’t even have the decency to go volunteer with the elderly or something, but is teaching kids about snakes. Fitting. The City of Memphis just has to google his name to see the truth
http://stopbaptistpredators.org/article/bellevue.html
Christiane, in my opinion, the leaders of Baptist denominational entities are cemented in their posture of denominational do-nothingness because they believe it serves them as a strategic tool for minimizing the risk of legal liability to denominational entities and because they care more about that than they do about the risks of serious harm to kids or even about the risks of liability to individual local churches. They are focused on protecting the money in denominational coffers. Of course, they would say they’re protecting “local church autonomy.” But I say that they’ve distorted this Baptist doctrine of polity into their own self-serving tool. Providing local churches with a centralized resource for the sharing of information does not violate their autonomy; to the contrary, it would serve the churches and empower them. Whenever I get going on this, I tend toward being a broken record. So I’ll just stop here. Thanks for your question. @ Christiane:
@ Christa Brown:
Thanks, Christa.
The emphasis placed by the SBC on ‘cooperating’ seems to go one way only: local church money to the SBC, and then the SBC is vulture-like in guarding the ‘doctrinal purity’ of it’s own entity members;
but the SBC could do so much to help the member churches by educating and keeping a roster of perpetrators …… their refusal to do the right thing is what I would call a great sin of omission: a moral dereliction of duty for the sake of the protection of innocent people. I sense your great frustration. You know the pain of victims and so I respect your continuing work to stop the nonsense of powerful people ‘looking away’ while perpetrators are allowed to roam among trusting people. God Bless you, Christa.
anon wrote:
Well, are you (or someone else in Memphis) willing and able to drop a dime on him and push the cops to investigate?
sorry for your misunderstanding and lack of insight. The things you have mentioned are “somewhat true” some are down right wrong and all are viewed through the eyes and heart of someone who will only see negativity even in the light of so many great things.
Guest
I can always judge a person by the lack of presence of something in their comment. You have violated the TWW Prime Directive. You have not mentioned any empathy for the victims of child sex abuse. That means you are merely a ho hum cheerleader for your chosen idols. Try harder the next time.
@ dee:
It is deeply disturbing that someone would complain about ‘negativity’ in a post about this topic.
True or not true. Not ‘somewhat true’. True or not true.
Lea wrote:
“It all depends on what the meaning of ‘is’ is.”
— Wm J “Slick Willie” Clinton
(“Slick Willie Clinton”… Sounds as much a Border Reiver name as “Tricky Dick Nixon”…)