Dennis Darville’s First 12 Years of Ministry Summed Up in a Word – Maranatha

"Well, long story short, I spent the next twelve years planting churches with no theological education, I might add, just with a Bible, with Jesus in my heart, knowing that people needed to hear about Christ."

Dennis Darville (9:22 mark)

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1807&dat=19811014&id=oewcAAAAIBAJ&sjid=LH8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=3005,1432632&hl=enThe Cavalier Daily  (10/14/81) – Screen Shot

As I begin this post, I want to say that I am sharing this information, not to be mean spirited, but to try and make sense out of what happened at First Baptist Church Rocky Mount (FBCRM) between the congregation and its most recent pastor, Dennis Darville.  It breaks my heart that so many have been hurt on both sides, and I am praying for ALL of you. 

Over a decade ago I went through a terribly painful church split, and it has taken me years to get over it.  It was a church plant from a large Southern Baptist church in Raleigh.  When my family began attending in 2002, I thought we had found the 'perfect church'.  There were well-known Christian leaders from our area who were committed to this new work, so what could possibly go wrong?  It's a L-O-N-G story, but suffice it to say that those on each side thought they were right, as I expect is the case at FBCRM.  Been there, done that, got the emotional scars to prove it.  Almost four years later, Dee and I launched The Wartburg Watch, and I have been amazed at how therapeutic this blog has been to me as we seek to help others.  TWW has become our ministry, and we do believe we are making a difference in Christendom.

It was a week ago that Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary posted a training video on its websiteBetween the Times – featuring Dennis Darville.  We discussed this video in a previous post.  Something in that video jumped out at me, and that will be the focus of this post.  At the 9:22 mark, Darville shares the following about his initial call to ministry:

Well, long story short, I spent the next twelve years planting churches with no theological education, I might add, just with a Bible, with Jesus in my heart, knowing that people needed to hear about Christ.  And so I spent the next twelve years of my life planting churches on university campuses. Started at Mississippi State, moved to University of Georgia, met my wife there. Then we went we moved to Chapel Hill, North Carolina.  Planted a church there in 1981.  Stayed until '83.  Moved to Houston, planted another church.  So the first twelve years of my life, and I'd been a philosophy major in college and I loved apologetics, so the campus context was just perfect.  So I was a church planter, so I had no experience with a search committee calling me because I was building these churches by God's grace from scratch.  So that's kinda my original experience for calling…

Clearly, TWELVE is an important number to Darville because he used it three times in short order to describe his early ministry.  We'll get to that…

Before accepting the call to ministry at First Baptist Church Rocky Mount, Dennis Darville served as Vice President for Institutional Advancement at Southeastern.   Back in 2009 he expressed his sentiments regarding the pastorate in an SEBTS article entitled Church 'shepherds' must faithfully preach truth, care for God's flock.  Darville explained: 

“It’s very simple: We are hard-pressed to find men that are good shepherds, and then to combine that with men who know the reality of Christian doctrine,” said Dennis Darville, Vice President of Institutional Advancement. Monday morning, during the opening session, he said, “The future of the Southern Baptist Convention largely depends on the health of her pulpit. We need men who love Jesus and are careful to exegete the text and exposit the text. We’re making sure we are training men to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ and edify the church.”

Four years later, he was once again quoted in an SEBTS article entitled A Day on the Course at the Seventh Annual Southeastern Classic Golf Tournament (link).  Here is a screen shot from that article:

http://www.sebts.edu/headlines/articles/7thAnnualSoutheasternGolfClassic.aspx

I was curious about Darville's 'failures and successes' as well as the challenges he faced – particularly as a campus minister to college students.  Then I remembered the portion of the video quoted above as well as the biographical information that used to be on the FBC Rocky Mount website, specifically:

Dennis' professional background is diverse. He served twelve years as a campus minister, ministering to college students, at the University of Georgia and then moving to the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. He was also involved in planting a campus church in Houston, TX.

After serving as a campus minister, Dennis left the campus for the marketplace.

Later in the SEBTS teaching video, Darville mentions his initial call to ministry on college campuses once again at the 13:30 mark.  He talks about doing open air preaching, which they have recently started doing in Rocky Mount. 

At the 15:45 mark, Darville shares the following biographical information:

Well then by the time 1990 rolls around I'm in Houston, Texas, I'm married with two children, and the ministry I'm a part of which is a worldwide ministry at the time – planting churches in a university context – was just going a direction that I felt like I couldn't go, and there were a lot of things going on and so Lee Anne and I, my wife and I, had to make some really tough decisions about what am I going to do now, two children, all I've ever known are campus ministries, planting churches.  This is how I make my living, this is how I provide for my family, and now I am wondering what I'm going to do for the next chapter of my life.  And I'm burned out quite frankly, I'm discouraged, I'm tired, I'm weary this is 1990 and I'm still a relatively young man, I've been going hard at it for years by this point, and I made a very very pivotal decision about my life…

He goes on to explain how a conversation with someone on a flight to Raleigh-Durham led to a career in the golfing industry.  Some years later he began pursuing his undergraduate degree at Southeastern, then his M.Div.  After a lengthy career at SEBTS, he became Interim Pastor of First Baptist Church Rocky Mount on January 1, 2012 and then Senior Pastor in 2013.  As we discussed in a previous post, he called for a vote of confidence on February 14, 2016, which came down 60/40 in favor of the church leadership.  That same day Darville (and quite a few on staff at FBCRM) resigned.  On Resurrection Sunday, a new church was launched – Christ Covenant Church – with Darville serving as lead pastor.

Now back to the matter at hand… As I reviewed Dennis Darville's biographical information, I was left with the nagging question — what's the name of the worldwide campus ministry in which he invested twelve years of his life (immediately following his conversion)?  To my knowledge, he has never publicly identified it. 

After a little digging I finally found a source that confirms the name of the ministry

(see screen shot below).

https://www.newspapers.com/image/67941116/?terms=dennis%2Bdarville%2Bmaranatha

The title of the article is:

https://www.newspapers.com/image/67941116/?terms=dennis%2Bdarville%2Bmaranatha

And here is how it begins:  (see screen shot below)

Screen Shot 2016-06-20 at 12.59.01 PM

Now you can go back and insert Maranatha Ministries into Dennis Darville's bio.  He joined this ministry in 1978, working on the campus of Mississippi State University.  After a brief stint there, he left and went to the University of Georgia to minister to college students as the Maranatha campus representative.  It was here that he met his future wife.  They married and moved to Chapel Hill, North Carolina to establish Maranatha Ministries on the campus of UNC.  There Darville was a 'pit preacher' and planted a church.  

As you can tell from the title of The Daily Tar Heel article, Maranatha Campus Ministries came under fire just two years after Darville arrived on campus as its Director.  The article goes on to state:  (see screen shots below)

https://www.newspapers.com/image/67941116/?terms=dennis%2Bdarville%2Bmaranatha

Screen Shot 2016-06-20 at 1.01.47 PM

The most troubling part of the article (to me) was the following excerpt: (see screen shot)

Screen Shot 2016-06-20 at 1.03.23 PM

What is fascinating about this portion of the article is the reference to Rev. Jim Abramson [sic] of Chapel Hill Bible Church.  In God's sovereignty, Dee and her husband moved to Durham several years after this article was published, and which church did they join?  Chapel Hill Bible Church (CHBC). They absolutely loved Jim Abrahamson during their first stint in North Carolina when Dee's husband was doing his cardiology fellowship at Duke.  Although Jim Abrahamson no longer pastors at CHBC, he does teach a Sunday School class there, and Dee and her husband are faithful members.  In fact, not long after we began blogging, we listed his website Apt to Teach in our blogroll.  It's a small world after all…

We are including one more excerpt from that 1983 Daily Tarheel article (see below):

Screen Shot 2016-06-20 at 1.04.31 PM

The above article was published toward at the end of the Spring Semester 1983.  The following September, The Daily Tar Heel featured an article announcing Dennis Darville's departure from Chapel Hill.  It was published on September 22, 1983, and we are including a screen shot of the entire article below).

https://www.newspapers.com/image/67797861/?terms=dennis%2Bdarville%2Bmaranatha

In case you're not familiar with Maranatha Campus Ministries, here is a brief description of how it began.  (see screen shot taken of the "Beginnings" section of Wiki article). Sorry about the small print. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maranatha_Campus_Ministries

In fairly short order, Maranatha Campus Ministries began to receive much criticism.  The Wiki article breaks down the criticism as follows:

Authoritarianism

Maranatha came under considerable fire during the 1970s and 1980s, largely due to its highly authoritarian structure. There were accusations of MCM being a cult with some former members reporting behavior similar to cults that frequently recruited college students during that time. As advocated by Derek Prince, members agreed to live in mutual accountability to protect their "purity in Christ." As was typical of most organizations influenced by Shepherding Movement teachings, this resulted in the organization developing clear authoritarian characteristics. Weiner, as Maranatha's president, was considered the ministry's "apostle," and was believed to receive direct revelations from God. Campus pastors supervised members' lives very closely. Disobeying one's pastor, or "shepherd," was considered tantamount to disobeying God. The movement was labeled as a "cult" or "cultlike" by some former members and newspapers.

Dating techniques

Members of Maranatha were barred from dating. Instead, singles were told to trust God, pray for God to guide them to a spouse, and hear God's voice speaking to them personally and individually about every decision. If a member believed God had spoken to him or her about marriage, he or she would pray with the pastor about whether that "word" was truly from God.

Tithing techniques

Another common criticism of the organization was its emphasis on tithing, or giving 10 percent of their earnings to the ministry. Although tithing is considered accepted practice in mainstream evangelical circles, several Maranatha pastors were rumored to keep detailed records of financial contributions. They reportedly admonished those who didn't give enough as having a "spirit of stinginess."

Criticism from Universities

The Daily Tar Heel article above provided an apt example of university criticism leveled at Maranatha Ministries.  See the Wiki article for other examples.

Christian Research Institute's Report

During the ensuing outcry, Weiner volunteered to have the Christian Research Institute provide a letter of endorsement. He hoped to "expel the lie" that Maranatha was a cult. After a meeting between several cult-watchers and Maranatha's leadership, a six-member ad hoc committee was formed to address Maranatha's problems. More than a year later, the committee issued a scathing report criticizing Maranatha's theology and practices.  Among other things, it found that Maranatha's authoritarianism had "potential negative consequences for members." It concluded:

Until we have clearer understanding of the changes which MCM claims are being implemented, and until we see more discernible evidence of change in the lives of people being impacted by MCM, we would not recommend this organization to anyone.

Committee members later said they would have used even harsher language in the report had they not feared legal reprisals. Weiner promised to address the committee's concerns, but later attacked it for anti-charismatic bias.

So what happened to Maranatha Campus Ministries?  Here is a screen shot from the Wiki article that explains its dissolution. Again, sorry for the small print. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maranatha_Campus_Ministries

If you are interesting in digging deeper into Maranatha Christian Ministries, there is a list of references at the bottom of the Wiki article

One of our blogging friends, Steve240, recently launched a website regarding Maranatha Ministries.  It is called Maranatha Ministries Reconsidered.  Some of you will remember the post we published introducing this brand new website.

When Maranatha Campus Ministries disbanded, the campus churches were free to become independent or associate with whomever they chose.  If memory serves us correctly, we believe Cornerstone Church of Knoxville began as a Maranatha campus church.  It chose to affiliate with Sovereign Grace Ministries.


In Conclusion…

I want to make it abundantly clear that I am not questioning Dennis Darville's faith or his call to ministry.  While I do not know him, I do know the history of Maranatha Campus Ministries (MCM).  I also know that he got involved with this ministry soon after becoming a Christian.  In all of the biographical information included in this post, Darville devotes a good bit of time explaining his twelve year involvement in this 'campus ministry' during his early adult years.  That's a good chunk of his adult life during a time when he was highly impressionable.  Clearly, those experiences made a big impact on him; however, they have left me wondering how much has MCM has influenced his 'spiritual DNA'?

One of Dennis Darville's supporters came onto our blog and assured us that he is upstanding in every way.  Others have testified that his behavior behind closed doors is not at all like his public persona.  As I said, I do not know him, but his extensive involvement in Maranatha Ministries leaves me wondering what might have happened in private with congregants who were not supportive of his elder-led polity, among other changes he wanted to implement.

When Darville was in Maranatha Ministries, how did those in leadership (who later repented of their highly authoritarian and abusive behavior) treat him behind closed doors?  Because he never reveals the name of this ministry in which he spent 12 years of his adult life, I am left with many more questions than answers. 

In case you'd like to learn more about Maranatha Campus Ministries, here are two videos that are quite revealing.  (Not the best video quality, but the content is important!)

Comments

Dennis Darville’s First 12 Years of Ministry Summed Up in a Word – Maranatha — 713 Comments

  1. Watchman on the wall wrote:

    Is this the hand of the Lord or is it a work of the devil?

    The enemy comes to steal, kill and destroy. There are those in SBC right now who are literally stealing churches and pirating congregations. There are leaders in SBC who are snuffing out the spiritual life of God’s people through their theo-political wrangling. There is a work at hand which is destroying a once-great evangelistic denomination, distracting its members from the Great Commission. Who’s work would that be?

    Watchman, I know your struggle well – I am praying for you.

  2. Deb wrote:

    @ Steve240: 
    I understand from a reliable source that at one time those involved in Campus Outreach had to get permission from their leaders to date a certain individual.
    Does anyone know if this is still the case?

    Not sure why you are asking “if this is still the case?” Maranatha has been closed for a while.

    I am sure that with Maranatha that even after they changed from their “dating revelation” to allowing people to date, leaders exercised control over what individuals/couples were allowed to do including who they could date.

  3. Had I seen this ad in my campus paper, I would have assumed that Dennis did not want me to come to Christ:

    “—Popular speaker on various major Universities and among fraternities & sororities throughout the United States.

    “Dennis isn’t one who needed God . . . he was one who experienced success on his own in college, in sports, in social parties & dates, & finally in business. Yet, one fact remained, he was not a success in the eyes of the One of all. …”

  4. dee wrote:

    Catherine wrote:
    It “makes sense” that he would treat church members so badly after being so immersed in Maranatha. It seems he attempted then, and is probably trying now with his new church, to inflict the same authoritarian rule, but on a bigger scale.
    Here is a prediction. You will be hearing from disillusioned followers of Darville’s new church within one year. His DNA has been corrupted by his early experiences. He will not be able to stay warm, humorous and controlled for very long. We have seen this happen time and time again.

    I think we will.

  5. Kay Edwards wrote:

    dee wrote:
    Catherine wrote:
    It “makes sense” that he would treat church members so badly after being so immersed in Maranatha. It seems he attempted then, and is probably trying now with his new church, to inflict the same authoritarian rule, but on a bigger scale.
    Here is a prediction. You will be hearing from disillusioned followers of Darville’s new church within one year. His DNA has been corrupted by his early experiences. He will not be able to stay warm, humorous and controlled for very long. We have seen this happen time and time again.
    One day he will say the wrong thing to the wrong person at the wrong time and things will begin to unravel.

  6. Deb wrote:

    @ Steve240:
    Perhaps you are not familiar with Campus Outreach. It is a growing ministry on college campuses.

    I know nothing about that group and their policies.

  7. I should also add about Dennis Darville that if he lead the Maranatha group in Houston in the time frame indicated, around that time it is my understanding that there was a pretty bad split with that group. In that split a signfinicant number of people left.

    Thus Darville isn’t really new to producing church splits if what I heard was true.

  8. I just found this blog today and Watchman, I will give you some truth.

    I am glad DD left and took his ministers with him. His “ministers” had started his work long before he got there. I had a 16 year ministry there and would show up on Sunday afternoons to meet with the youth. One day they didn’t show up. The youth minister took it upon himself to cancel our activity during Sunday School but never bothered to tell me. Sixteen years of serving the community and going out to nursing homes and to the homes of shut ins came to a screeching halt. I met with DD and the youth minister and DD did nothing. I folded my group and have been miserable ever since. We are starting again this fall, praise God!!

    This has been the most eye opening and painful thing I have ever been through at church. I even took my son and left FBCRM last fall? He will NOT be ministered to by a youth minister that underhandedly took apart the successful ministries of others. That cannot be godly. If what you are doing is of God, proclaim it for all to see and know. Why hide your actions? My family is back just in time for my son to begin as a youth. The most formative time in a young person’s life in church, in my opinion.

    I am very hurt and pray always for God to settle this grief I feel over the deceit and treachery that has happened to my church family. I pray that Stephen is not involved in any deceit. Of all the young men called to God’s service from FBC, he truly put his faith in action when he packed up his very young and wonderful family and moved up north to plant a church.

    The church family is split, biological families are split, and some wonderful Christians are so disillusioned about church that they have quit going. As a member since 1979, my church saw me through a failed marriage, an addiction and I am counting on what is left of my church family to help me heal after this.

    I believe that a lot of or church family will either come back or find a loving Christlike congregation to worship with and love like family. And I hope they find that soon. As for me…. I am at home with my church family, waiting for fall to restart my ministry, and glad to have truly learned that everyone who calls Jesus “Lord” certainly does not know him well enough to know how he treats other followers, and His bride, the church.

    And yes, I am still grieving. And I will be for a long time.

  9. Steve240 wrote:

    I should also add about Dennis Darville that if he lead the Maranatha group in Houston in the time frame indicated, around that time it is my understanding that there was a pretty bad split with that group.

    I ran across the following:

    June 1, 1990—Maranatha Christian Church of Houston, Inc. (Texas) changes its name to Grace Covenant Church.

    Also:

    http://everynation.proboards.com/thread/100/where

    ” (The second, smaller group consisted of about eight couples loyal to Ben Broocks and the “Maranatha Vision.” Dennis Darville was brought in as the new pastor of ministry that eventually became Grace Church after the 1990 “decentralization.”

  10. BL wrote:

    ” (The second, smaller group consisted of about eight couples loyal to Ben Broocks and the “Maranatha Vision.” Dennis Darville was brought in as the new pastor of ministry that eventually became Grace Church after the 1990 “decentralization.”

    If this true then Darville came in after the split and wasn’t there when it happened.

    Bitter splits was something that continued till the end of the group as well as people having to recover

    https://mmireconsidered.wordpress.com/2016/01/26/do-you-hear-the-people-sing/

    I wonder what these leaders prayer life was. The obviously weren’t open to or listening to God’s correction IMO.

    When one leader allowed a group to leave Bob Weiner reportedly took umbrage over that vs apparently not even seeking God as if this was a sign that top leadership was doing something wrong.

  11. @ Grieving at FBCRM:

    I am so sorry this has happened to your church family. Please know that Dee and I are grieving along with you and praying for better days ahead.

    God bless you in restarting your ministry to shut-ins and those in nursing homes. May ministering to these lonely and isolated individuals bring about spiritual healing in your own life.

  12. Steve240 wrote:

    BL wrote:

    If this true then Darville came in after the split and wasn’t there when it happened.

    No, he was a director and preacher BEFORE the split. One common thing about him is…He comes in and, split just happens.

  13. Steve240 wrote:

    If this true then Darville came in after the split and wasn’t there when it happened.
    Bitter splits was something that continued till the end of the group as well as people having to recover

    No, he was in the area and working for Maranatha. Darville was there by 1983 according to an article in the Tar Heel:

    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/67797861/

    “Darville has been director of the Maranatha Ministry for the UNC campus since January 1981. For the past 2 years, he could often be found clutching a Bible and preaching the Gospel to anyone who would listen outside Lenoir Hall. In Houston he will continue with Maranatha as director of ministry for Texas Southern University, Rice University and the University of Houston.”

  14. From the Tar Heel:
    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/67797861/

    “Dennis began college at Troy State in Alabama in 1974 with hopes of a golf career. He said he soon became involved with drugs and transferred to the University of Southern Mississippi. “At Southern Mississippi I just laid down the golf clubs, became a frat rat, partied and got even more heavily into drugs.

    Just trying to figure out how the above fits in with Darville’s Maranatha advert at the top of the post which tells us:

    Dennis isn’t one who needed God…he was one who experienced success on his own in college, in sports, in social parties and dates, & finally in business.”

  15. BL wrote:

    From the Tar Heel:
    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/67797861/
    “Dennis began college at Troy State in Alabama in 1974 with hopes of a golf career. He said he soon became involved with drugs and transferred to the University of Southern Mississippi. “At Southern Mississippi I just laid down the golf clubs, became a frat rat, partied and got even more heavily into drugs.
    Just trying to figure out how the above fits in with Darville’s Maranatha advert at the top of the post which tells us:
    Dennis isn’t one who needed God…he was one who experienced success on his own in college, in sports, in social parties and dates, & finally in business.”

    This really grosses me out. It’s all about bringing the wealthy into the room and presenting some slice of his testimony–whatever sells. Get the UVA Greeks in there and tell them they can party their way to Christ-like money. Get the golfers in there and testify about golf, drugs, Jesus, and money.

    If he was truly a repentant sinner, he’d pay more attention to the chaotic jumble of messages he has sent over the years. I’m just not seeing any depth, or any concern about his hearers.

  16. Good Lord! I have been processing comments by “Watchman”, “Grieving”, and others who experienced a touch of hell at FBCRM. I watch and grieve with them. If anybody thinks that what Darville and team did to that church was “from God”, they are not in their right spiritual minds! I see nothing in their comments which would indicate that a Christlike spirit was exhibited by church elders in the events leading up to and subsequent to the church split. When will this madness end?!

  17. Steve240 wrote:

    I am sure that with Maranatha that even after they changed from their “dating revelation” to allowing people to date, leaders exercised control over what individuals/couples were allowed to do including who they could date.

    “Just like Eugenics, Exccept CHRISTIAN(TM)!”?

  18. Lydia wrote:

    @ Stan:
    Hee.hee. Success is defined as following them or going into paid ministry.

    And paid ministry with Furtick Mansions/Estates and private Gulfstreams and Tony Stark-sized supercar collections are Success of Successes.

  19. Stan wrote:

    @ Kay Edwards:

    Wow! Gee, I thought the neoCals hated prosperity gospel.

    Only when it’s not THEM doing the prospering.

  20. Lydia wrote:

    We see our seniors as fit for greeting at Walmart but not as intellectual and emotional intelligence sources.

    “Let them die and reduce the surplus population.”
    — Scrooge

  21. Friend wrote:

    “—Popular speaker on various major Universities and among fraternities & sororities throughout the United States.
    “Dennis isn’t one who needed God . . . he was one who experienced success on his own in college, in sports, in social parties & dates, & finally in business. Yet, one fact remained, he was not a success in the eyes of the One of all. …”

    This is true. I actually went to a campus worship thing when I was in college that a lot of the people I attended CHBC with went to and it felt really clickish. I didn’t like it.

  22. BL wrote:

    in social parties and dates

    This part of it killed me though. He experienced success in ‘social parties’? What does that entail, showing up and getting drunk? He had dates?

    These are weird things to brag about.

  23. Lea wrote:

    This is true. I actually went to a campus worship thing when I was in college that a lot of the people I attended CHBC with went to and it felt really clickish. I didn’t like it.

    Maranatha specifically targeted physically attractive, popular college students first.

    Just like God does, right? (rolling eyes)

    Frat houses & sororities, and later sports teams were given the full-out press by Maranatha leaders from other universities who had been won into the organization the same way.

    Once the Maranatha vanguard had been established, then big Bob Weiner came in to close the deal. Later on, as the growth exploded Weiner was unable to consummate every new university juggernaut. His lower minions did it for him.

    And one of the first things established at the Maranatha groups – tithing and gifts. All flowing to the big Bob & his closest cohorts.

  24. Lea wrote:

    This part of it killed me though. He experienced success in ‘social parties’? What does that entail, showing up and getting drunk? He had dates?
    These are weird things to brag about.

    Combining the two statements would mean that his success in social parties included drug and alcohol abuse.

    And what constitutes a ‘successful date’ for someone whose goal is partying, drugging and drinking?

    That kinda registers on my creep-o-meter.

  25. BL wrote:

    Combining the two statements would mean that his success in social parties included drug and alcohol abuse.

    And what constitutes a ‘successful date’ for someone whose goal is partying, drugging and drinking?

    “PENETRATE! COLONIZE! CONQUER! PLANT!”

  26. BL wrote:

    And what constitutes a ‘successful date’ for someone whose goal is partying, drugging and drinking?
    That kinda registers on my creep-o-meter.

    Ha, good point.

    I’m trying to imagine putting ‘success at dating/clubbing/parties’ on my resume…

  27. BL wrote:

    Maranatha specifically targeted physically attractive, popular college students first.

    Chad and Megan, Muffy and Buffy from the KEWL Kid’s Table.

    As Screwtape mentioned in his Toast to Slubgob, bring a Celebrity into Our Father’s House and you get ALL his fans and groupies for free!

  28. Lea wrote:

    I’m trying to imagine putting ‘success at dating/clubbing/parties’ on my resume…

    Well, just as the name “Maranatha” seems to have disappeared from Darville’s resume, I guess the usefulness of “I’m successful at social parties and dating” has outworn its usefulness as well.

    But, I can imagine that it was a real hook for college-age students.

    I put it right up there with the Children of God’s ‘flirty fishing’.

  29. BL wrote:

    Once the Maranatha vanguard had been established, then big Bob Weiner came in to close the deal. Later on, as the growth exploded Weiner was unable to consummate every new university juggernaut. His lower minions did it for him.
    And one of the first things established at the Maranatha groups – tithing and gifts. All flowing to the big Bob & his closest cohorts.

    One sad practice that Maranatha practiced was requiring local chapters (like at their local college groups) to “tithe” the income they received (the number I believe was higher than 10%. At the same time the chapter was also required to repay any money that was “given” to them to start their local chapter. I am sure that having to give all this money to central Maranatha was difficult for many of these local chapters who had as members college student putting pressure on local leaders to push for higher contributions from members.

    I understand that Maranatha Corporate sent local chapters copies of their newspaper called “The Forerunner” that they also required local chapters to pay for.

    Some will say that Maranatha became a money machine and probably greedy at that. The money that was required to be paid back were mostly contributions that all members made at various Maranatha meetings.

  30. Steve240 wrote:

    I understand that Maranatha Corporate sent local chapters copies of their newspaper called “The Forerunner” that they also required local chapters to pay for.

    Some will say that Maranatha became a money machine and probably greedy at that. The money that was required to be paid back were mostly contributions that all members made at various Maranatha meetings.

    That was what I have read. Forced to pay $4,000 for a stupid newsletter from the Weiners than no one had requested or ordered.

    I read a lot of testimonies regarding the ever-consuming need of the upper hierarchy for $$$$ sucked out of college students along with the guilt-manipulation of consuming all their energy and time.

    All under the same false ‘latter rain’ doctrine that they were producing that final generation ushering in revival so Jesus Christ could return.

    Maranatha was dominionist to its foundations.

  31. Kay Edwards wrote:

    The group that went with Dennis has already been asked to increase their giving.

    That was expected.

    They’ll soon find out that they have a lot less family and/or personal time.

  32. @ Max:
    No, it was definitely not from God! When dennis came he said he inherited a broken, handicapped church….NO… we were fine until he got there and started changing things…some of which were small so not many knew about them and then came everything else which began to divide the congregation. Sometimes the ….if it ain’t broke don’t fix it….works best!!

  33. @ Max:
    No, it was definitely not from God! When dennis came he said he inherited a broken, handicapped church….NO… we were fine until he got there and started changing things…some of which were small so not many knew about them and then came everything else which began to divide the congregation. Sometimes the ….if it ain’t broke don’t fix it….works best!!BL wrote:

    Kay Edwards wrote:

    The group that went with Dennis has already been asked to increase their giving.

    That was expected.

    They’ll soon find out that they have a lot less family and/or personal time.

    Yep!

  34. Steve240 wrote:

    BL wrote:

    ” (The second, smaller group consisted of about eight couples loyal to Ben Broocks and the “Maranatha Vision.” Dennis Darville was brought in as the new pastor of ministry that eventually became Grace Church after the 1990 “decentralization.”

    If this true then Darville came in after the split and wasn’t there when it happened.

    Bitter splits was something that continued till the end of the group as well as people having to recover

    https://mmireconsidered.wordpress.com/2016/01/26/do-you-hear-the-people-sing/

    I wonder what these leaders prayer life was. The obviously weren’t open to or listening to God’s correction IMO.

    When one leader allowed a group to leave Bob Weiner reportedly took umbrage over that vs apparently not even seeking God as if this was a sign that top leadership was doing something wrong.

    Hi Steve,
    Houston was a great , sad break. Rice Brooks ,brother of Ben Broocks tried to help .This went deep into the new emerging leadership of Rice & such and ‘old guard’ , if you will and the well loved Bobby Bonner and his wife, Jeanie. There were many working on the inside to try and reform , Marantha as some saw a viable hope to explore.

  35. Steve240 wrote:

    One sad practice that Maranatha practiced was requiring local chapters (like at their local college groups) to “tithe” the income they received (the number I believe was higher than 10%. At the same time the chapter was also required to repay any money that was “given” to them to start their local chapter. I am sure that having to give all this money to central Maranatha was difficult for many of these local chapters who had as members college student putting pressure on local leaders to push for higher contributions from members.

    I understand that Maranatha Corporate sent local chapters copies of their newspaper called “The Forerunner” that they also required local chapters to pay for.

    Some will say that Maranatha became a money machine and probably greedy at that. The money that was required to be paid back were mostly contributions that all members made at various Maranatha meetings.

    Hi Steve,
    I would agree with you, I recall a traveling minster tell me to hang on , things were going to be better, in the money department.

    This was after another college church, left our region and we had to pay back their balance owed to headquarters in Gainesville FL. Each new campus church was given money to help start, which was paid back along with a monthly % of monies taken in by us, the new plant.

    When we a were all encouraged to ‘spread the risk’, by putting church monies into buildings that were then more easily shielded from lawsuits in the mid-80’s. The tithe increased to 38-42%.

  36. @ Watchman on the wall:

    Wow where does one start? I am slowly coming to the conclusion that the pain I have I will just have to live with. In my situation a guy who was trying to get me involved in a Sovereign Grace church plant gave birth to a false accusation that threatened to destroy my name, employment and future employment. I learned why rape and sexual assault is a problem in the military. And it come from someone who boasted of how wonderful his faith is.

    There are a lot of people who need peace and closure. That’s why I hammer some of these organizations at my blog. You need peace to grocery shop. You need peace to do your job. You need peace to live, pay bills and more. The cruelest thing a person can do is to deny someone peace. That is cruel and there are no words to state how horrific that is.

    For you pain I am sorry. I am in a lot of pain also. I feel “stuck.” I can’t understand what I endured and why it went the way it did. For all Dee Parsons says can I be brutally honest and state that I think she is in pain too, and still troubled. I know I am, and many others are as well.

    But you are not alone.

  37. Kay Edwards wrote:

    he said he inherited a broken, handicapped church

    The entire Southern Baptist Convention is broken and handicapped if you believe the New Calvinists. They have been called into the world for such a time as this to fix it. I refuse to call what I’m seeing in such ministries as “church”. The Church of the Living God is a holy institution; the stealth and deception we are seeing in New Calvinism is not a holy mission.

  38. Max wrote:

    The entire Southern Baptist Convention is broken and handicapped if you believe the New Calvinists. They have been called into the world for such a time as this to fix it. I refuse to call what I’m seeing in such ministries as “church”. The Church of the Living God is a holy institution; the stealth and deception we are seeing in New Calvinism is not a holy mission.

    I know it is not nice but these guys who see themselves as saviors are in fact devils. Somebody better stand up to these monsters.

  39. @ mot:
    Mot, this thing has taken on a spiritual dimension that I’m not sure SBC’s theo-politicians appreciate. There’s more darkness being demonstrated by their actions, than light.

  40. Max wrote:

    Mot, this thing has taken on a spiritual dimension that I’m not sure SBC’s theo-politicians appreciate. There’s more darkness being demonstrated by their actions, than light.

    Max:
    Someone had to create these monsters. What are they teaching these guys in seminary?

  41. mot wrote:

    Max wrote:
    The entire Southern Baptist Convention is broken and handicapped if you believe the New Calvinists. They have been called into the world for such a time as this to fix it. I refuse to call what I’m seeing in such ministries as “church”. The Church of the Living God is a holy institution; the stealth and deception we are seeing in New Calvinism is not a holy mission.

    I know it is not nice but these guys who see themselves as saviors are in fact devils.

    “Nowhere do we corrupt so effectively as at the very foot of the altar!”
    — Screwtape

  42. mot wrote:

    What are they teaching these guys in seminary?

    Mot, there are various avenues of reformed indoctrination beyond SBC seminaries. They certainly play a part via instruction by some professors, but the dorm room and coffee shop chatter of YRRs talking among themselves are tremendous drivers of this rebellion. Combine that with the influence of non-SBC entities (Acts29, T4G, TGC, etc.) which have their hands in this mess and you have the makings of a reformed movement that just won’t stop. What they all are teaching these guys is wrong, of course. Equipping “pastors” to enter churches through stealth and deception, with control, manipulation and intimidation in their hearts is not the stuff of holy and pure ministries before God.

  43. @ Max:
    I was thinking that in the Incarnation, Our Lord assumed a very ‘broken, handicapped’ and suffering humankind, but His Church is the hospital, the sanctuary for people who need Him. Christ IS the Source of all that is holy in the Church and He is, among His many titles, called the Great Physician.

  44. The day of the split, just before he gave his resignation, the lead pastor introduced a long time family friend. He said that she had been a friend for “30 years” and she had helped him “plant a church in Houston, Texas.”

  45. Questioning?? wrote:

    The day of the split, just before he gave his resignation, the lead pastor introduced a long time family friend. He said that she had been a friend for “30 years” and she had helped “plant a church in Houston, Texas.”

    2016-30 years= 1986
    I smell Maranatha….

  46. Questioning?? wrote:

    The day of the split, just before he gave his resignation, the lead pastor introduced a long time family friend. He said that she had been a friend for “30 years” and she had helped him “plant a church in Houston, Texas.”

    That is Darville’s Maranatha days. 1983-

    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/67797861/

    A campus institution for the past two years left town Wednesday, leaving the Pit a little quieter. Dennis Darville ended his tenure at UNC Wednesday with a final gospel hour in the Pit before his move to Houston, Texas.

    Darville has been director of the Maranatha Ministry for the UNC campus since January 1981. For the past 2 years, he could often be found clutching a Bible and preaching the Gospel to anyone who would listen outside Lenoir Hall.

    In Houston he will continue with Maranatha as director of ministry for Texas Southern University, Rice University and the University of Houston. “An opportunity came up this summer to go to Houston and I just decided, -along with my wife, to go for it,” he said.

    What was the name of the friend?

    Publication: The Daily Tar Heel
    Location: Chapel Hill, North Carolina
    Issue Date: Thursday, September 22, 1983

  47. Steve240 wrote:

    One sad practice that Maranatha practiced was requiring local chapters (like at their local college groups) to “tithe” the income they received (the number I believe was higher than 10%. At the same time the chapter was also required to repay any money that was “given” to them to start their local chapter.

    Nice racket. I wonder if David Miscavige took notes from Bob Wiener when coming up with his “Ideal Org” scam. It sounds eerily similar…

  48. In Houston he will continue with Maranatha as director of ministry for Texas Southern University, Rice University and the University of Houston. “An opportunity came up this summer to go to Houston and I just decided, -along with my wife, to go for it,” he said.

    Publication: The Daily Tar Heel
    Location: Chapel Hill, North Carolina
    Issue Date: Thursday, September 22, 1983

    Ok, family and friends at FBC… Did you just read his quote? ” I just decided to go for it….” Wonder if the Lord was ever even a thought? Did the Lord tell him to go? That was our entire problem in a nutshell. We WERE a church body who always fasted and prayed about everything. The Lord was directing our church in the past. How many times under our last pastor did we fast? Pray? Nope, we were told we didn’t have time let’s “go for it”. You guys remember. We said we needed more time, and someone said let’s take forty days to fast and pray. Then one of the “pre-elders” said we don’t have time we need to pass this thing.

    Shame, shame on us. Shame on me for not standing up and screaming that very thing from the church pews when I knew it was wrong. But praise the Lord he and his staff wanted to just “go for it” with CCC and left us be.

    Thanks ” questioning???”. I do believe you just showed us the smoking gun. Maranatha was and still IS in his DNA. Bless his little heart.

  49. BL wrote:

    Questioning?? wrote:

    The day of the split, just before he gave his resignation, the lead pastor introduced a long time family friend. He said that she had been a friend for “30 years” and she had helped him “plant a church in Houston, Texas.”

    That is Darville’s Maranatha days. 1983-

    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/67797861/

    A campus institution for the past two years left town Wednesday, leaving the Pit a little quieter. Dennis Darville ended his tenure at UNC Wednesday with a final gospel hour in the Pit before his move to Houston, Texas.

    Darville has been director of the Maranatha Ministry for the UNC campus since January 1981. For the past 2 years, he could often be found clutching a Bible and preaching the Gospel to anyone who would listen outside Lenoir Hall.

    In Houston he will continue with Maranatha as director of ministry for Texas Southern University, Rice University and the University of Houston. “An opportunity came up this summer to go to Houston and I just decided, -along with my wife, to go for it,” he said.

    What was the name of the friend?

    Publication: The Daily Tar Heel
    Location: Chapel Hill, North Carolina
    Issue Date: Thursday, September 22, 1983

    I believe he introduced her as “Laura”

  50. Honestly, I'm a little surprised North Carolina Wesleyan College has embraced Christ Covenant Church the way they have, especially considering the way the Rocky Mount community at large views what has happened. Most of the folks I have talked to think it's repugnant. Many of those who were "courted" before and after the split, with dinners and visits, were affluent. However, some were chosen because of the long time connections they have in the RM area. Some of these connections (the good old boy network) have been used to secure their on campus meeting place.

  51. Bridget wrote:

    Lea wrote: Pre elders??? Young men in training to do pastor’s bidding

    Actually, some of these men are quite old. But one thing for sure, they were hand picked by the pastor. They were listed by accident on a handout we were given.

  52. Watchman on the wall wrote:

    hand picked by the pastor

    Yes-men always are. The willingness to submit to and defend “pastor” without question supersedes Biblical qualifications for office of elder. Certain “elders” in New Calvinist works in my area are some of the meanest people on the planet.

  53. @ Watchman on the wall wrote:

    They were listed by accident on a handout we were given.

    These guys believe in God's sovereignty, so it was definitely NOT an accident! It was God-ordained. 😉

    BTW, I believe it was providential as well. You need to know who these turncoats are.

  54. Thanks Deb. There have been dark, sad days at FBCRM, but there is a sense of peace now and people are joyfully worshiping again. The children’s choir leaders were grievously and maliciously hurt. They were invited to dinner, paid for by the church. The ministers who left after the split were in attendance. After they ate, the ones whom I know were expecting praise for their 20-30 plus years of serving as choir directors of kids who were now bringing their own kids were told that choir members would now all be under one young man who was the son of one of the pastors who left. At least four choirs with 8 to 15 members each were dismembered. They “sang” two months later in the Sunday worship service. Their young leader sang with them. Most of them did not even know the song and didn’t sing. You could not hear the kids at all because his electric guitar and microphone drowned them out.

    Instead of their beautiful robes sewn by church members and the handmade props or palm fronds they would wave at Easter, or other dramatic props, they wore pink tie dyed t-shirts and just stood there. The small number of kids, maybe eight, was a sad reminder of how badly this “revived” children’s music ministry was going. My son learned to read music in those choirs. These kids did not even learn the words to the song. I will never see how anyone thought this was better except in one way…… If you didn’t drink the koolaid, you were removed.

    When I asked our new music minister if he agreed with all the changes he said, “All of the staff are of one accord.” He would not elaborate. I got frustrated and finally I responded, “Fine, the staff may be “all of one accord but this isn’t right. I ain’t drinking the koolaid and my child will not be discipled in a church that allows thriving ministries to be dismembered by so-called Christian pastors.” My family was in another congregation the next Sunday and I only returned the Sunday of the vote to cast my voice in the vote. I will never forget watching pastor after pastor, if that is what they were, march to the microphone and read their prewritten resignations.

    The one pastor left agreed to stay until we found new staff. He has and always will be a very dear friend whom I respect and admire. After a few months, he apologized to the congregation present at Wednesday night prayer meeting and said that after much prayer, he realized he was getting ready to follow a man instead of God. If this man could be lead to almost do that, then Dennis Darville is very dangerous indeed. God is all powerful, but Satan has stolen good people from the Kingdom for centuries.

    First Baptist is not finished with its work here. We are healing. Most importantly, there is not a staff member left that would oppose our ministries. We have peace and worship in our house again. I have been a member since 1979, and God willing, this will always be my home.

  55. The place Wesleyan is allowing the new church to meet in is actually a lobby of one of the buildings. Not even a classroom. It doesn’t seem that Wesleyan is rolling out the red carpet.

  56. Grieving at FBCRM wrote:

    The place Wesleyan is allowing the new church to meet in is actually a lobby of one of the buildings. Not even a classroom. It doesn’t seem that Wesleyan is rolling out the red carpet.

    The president of NCWC, Dewey Clark, and Dennis are good friends. He even came to preach one of the last few Sunday’s before the split. The lobby of the Dunn Center is quite beautiful and is far nicer than any classroom. I mean people have wedding receptions in that lobby. They may not be “rolling out the red carpet” but they sure aren’t trying to distance themselves from the situation.

  57. @ Grieving at FBCRM:

    Both of my daughters were involved in church choirs, school choirs, and an auditioned community choir for most of their growing up years. The changes to the choir program you described would have been totally unacceptable to me. 🙁

    Your former pastors were putting their selfish desires to rule ahead of the children's needs – a clear indication to me that they are not in the center of God's will.

  58. @ Grieving at FBCRM:
    Hello Grieving,
    I don’t know who you are, but I do appreciate your sharing the facts about the choir disbandment. How did that happen right in front of our faces? I know how. We were so beaten up and starved from the lack of the precious Word of God that we just let all of this happen. We didn’t care any longer. We were tired and disgusted.
    So, you now have my curiosity aroused. I have questions for FBCRM family.
    1. How were the last 3 pastors/ directors hired? No one, including deacons, have ever been able to answer that one. They said they didn’t know either. One pastor was hired, and not even out of SEBTS. Really? He is the one who quit one Sunday, and resigned his membership. Then within 14 days he was back in new members class wanting to rejoin our sinful church.
    2. How did the staff come to make these “rock star” salaries? Who is responsible? We need to know. If trust is ever to be re-established, the facts on this need to come to light.
    3. Why are we doing all this healing on a blog? Why aren’t we doing this in our own church? What are we afraid of? It’s time for all of us to say that we take blame for certain things that happened. I must take blame for not telling more people things I knew that had happened to me. I should of not stopped until the issues were resolved. I take blame and I am sorry. Forgive me.
    Grieving at FBCRM… When I find out who you are, I want to have lunch with you! I like you. And I’ll pay.

  59. Watchman on the wall wrote:

    Ok, family and friends at FBC… Did you just read his quote? ” I just decided to go for it….” Wonder if the Lord was ever even a thought? Did the Lord tell him to go? That was our entire problem in a nutshell. We WERE a church body who always fasted and prayed about everything. The Lord was directing our church in the past. How many times under our last pastor did we fast? Pray? Nope, we were told we didn’t have time let’s “go for it”. You guys remember. We said we needed more time, and someone said let’s take forty days to fast and pray. Then one of the “pre-elders” said we don’t have time we need to pass this thing.

    They had already decided what *their* will was, so no need to ‘waste’ anytime actually allowing others to seek *God’s* will.

    Man, you have my sympathy – Please don’t beat yourself up too bad, instead remember the lesson you’ve learned and pass it on whenever you can.

    By the time you as a pewishioner begin to notice that something doesn’t seem right, the change-train has already left the station and is going mighty fast.

    You can’t get your bearings, looking out the windows for some visual reference doesn’t work – because that’s all a blur.

    Not only that, but you’re already doubting your own eyesight, as well as your capability to understand, what you’re not sure you’re seeing.

    Additionally, you and all your fellow pewishioners are strapped into your individual seats, no talking is allowed, and the engineer and his crewman are holding special secret meetings back in the caboose, trying to make sure none of the pewishioners pulls on the breakline, or attempts to warn their fellow pewishioners that the train their are on is heading down the wrong track.

    Bless God for throwing the switch at the last minute that brought you safely into the station, without the Darville Gang still manipulating the train behind the scenes.

    You may be a little bruised and beat up, but you’re also wiser and more experienced now.

    And one of the few ‘success’ stories in a long list of church hi-jackings.

  60. @ Olivia:
    If you were to speak up you were considered evil and that was not tolerated!! A Sunday School teacher lost the majority of his class because they weren’t willing to follow the “pastor” a man but chose to follow God and there is only one God and He doesn’t share His throne!!!

  61. Grieving at FBCRM wrote:

    After they ate, the ones whom I know were expecting praise for their 20-30 plus years of serving as choir directors of kids who were now bringing their own kids were told that choir members would now all be under one young man who was the son of one of the pastors who left.

    This is terrible. I feel terrible for them! Were the previous choir directors women and unpaid, by any chance? That would fit.

  62. Watchman on the wall wrote:

    Ok, family and friends at FBC… Did you just read his quote? ” I just decided to go for it….” Wonder if the Lord was ever even a thought? Did the Lord tell him to go? That was our entire problem in a nutshell. We WERE a church body who always fasted and prayed about everything. The Lord was directing our church in the past. How many times under our last pastor did we fast? Pray? Nope, we were told we didn’t have time let’s “go for it”. You guys remember. We said we needed more time, and someone said let’s take forty days to fast and pray. Then one of the “pre-elders” said we don’t have time we need to pass this thing.

    I am sure not seeking God's will but assuming what you were doing was God's will was one of Maranatha's big problems. They were warned at one of their group meetings that they should "sit at Jesus' feet" but that warning apparently fell on deaf ears.

  63. Lea, of course they were unpaid. And they gave years of service for free and touched so many lives.

  64. Lea, of course they were unpaid. And they gave years of service for free and touched so many lives. They and I are all unpaid musicians that donate our talent to God. And church musicians attend a lot of practices that most people don’t realize are happening. I attend three a week during the summer and more from fall to spring. It is my gift and calling. I get blessed in so many ways. I cannot imagine a church service without orchestra, choir, handbells and so much other music. That meant nothing to Dennis.

  65. Watchman, I play the keyboard beside the trumpet and directly behind the french horn and I will never drink the koolaid. God bless you!

  66. Every Nation, a new outcrop of Maranatha, tried and succeeded to acquire leadership in Nashville Tn , of another already established church. They gave the former pastor another church of theirs far away.

    Rice Brooks (Broock) is the brother of Ben who was involved with the split at Darville’s former church in Houston.

    As a former member of this group who left in the Mid-80's, I wondered why. Aa a person still in leadership (as I had been) told me – it was a faster and easier way to get a church and then fill it with their choices in all aspects of staff and change the elders so that controls would be ‘consistant’ — his words.

  67. I know who you are Grieving at FBCRM! I used to play flute with the orchestra, but I haven't attended since 2014.

  68. I used to help one of the regular children’s choir teachers; I’ll have everyone know that all those teachers were wonderful and spent a lot of time and their own money on those children. Those teachers took their job very seriously. I’m speculating, but I think part of the problem was that this program was from Jim Alley’s days. Neither Tim Griffin(children’s’ pastor) nor Mike Avery(teen/youth pastor) liked Jim Alley(former music minister who was extremely talented and loved the Lord) and it was never obvious why. I spent 6+ hours a week in rehearsal with Jim Alley and he inspired me to love Jesus with all my heart. He was someone that I still miss like a father or grandfather and it always hurt my heart to know those two men gave him grief. Jim never spoke of this to me, but other members knew. Mike Avery didn’t like the teens joining any music ensembles but Jim always encouraged those who did to do their very best; he showed them off.

    I also believe another reason they removed these regular children’s choir teachers was because it wasn’t biblically intense enough. The Bible was taught plenty, but it wasn’t Team Dennis’s brand. That’s something about Calvinists that I will never understand – if you’re not flogging yourself over your sins while simultaneously talk about grace, or attending a TGC conference and getting Piper to sign your copy of his 50th book, you’re leading children with Piper, Keller, or some other Calvinist’s curriculum.

  69. Grieving at FBCRM wrote:

    Watchman, I play the keyboard beside the trumpet and directly behind the french horn and I will never drink the koolaid. God bless you!

    Grieving at FBCRM, our church is blessed to have you serving as you do, God Bless you and that kool-aid was spiked!!

  70. @ Unepetiteanana:

    I have a few questions:

    Is it Jim Alley who passed away? On that SEBTS video, Darville mentioned that music minister had died.

    Did your former pastors (Darville & gang) ever attend the Together for the Gospel conference or The Gospel Coalition Conference?

    Were the women encouraged to attend the TGC conference for women?

    Did your church use The Gospel Project curriculum?

    Did any of your former pastors do a study using Wayne Grudem’s Bible Doctrine book?

  71. One last comment or two before I turn in for the night. God is so good. After a lot of the orchestra left to NOT be invited to use their talents and gifts in the new church, the rest of us showed up early the first Sunday ready to do what we could. All the sections were represented. Not a part was left unplayed. At the end of the service, all were invited to go and kneel at the altar to pray for God's church. My mouth fell open as people flocked to kneel and pray. There was no anxiety and a profound sense of relief. The presence of God was strong. I knew then for sure that the battle was over and God was once again the only personality in the pulpit that had center stage. What a joy to sit and worship without focusing on who was on which side. God is so good and faithful to those who follow Him and truly love their church family. I feel His peace again in worship and know in my heart that while not everyone that was tricked into following a man will come back, a lot will. When they begin to see the lies and deceit, they will leave that kind of worship that tries to control instead of simply honor God. They may not come back to this church family, but I believe that many will have their eyes opened and will not choose to follow deception and the destruction of unity in the Spirit. This horrible time in the family is a stark reminder that Satan is alive and well and will find our weaknesses and use them.

  72. Gudbrand wrote:

    Let’s not forget about this video

    That is disgusting.

    Darville & Gang’s attempt to portray their failure to wrestle complete control over FBCRM through coercion and manipulation as their being broken and suffering for God is disgusting.

  73. Deb, it was Jim Alley who died. I played in the orchestra at his funeral and even though it was sad, I have never heard the choir sound more wonderful. Jim was a saint! One year after Jim passed, the church dedicated a Sunday to his memory and Dennis ruined it. I was not there that Sunday, but that is when Dennis announced his vote on whether or not the congregation wanted him to stay (ed.). What a slap to Jim's family and friends who were there. He completely made a memorial about himself.

  74. Deb wrote:

    @ Unepetiteanana:

    I have a few questions:

    Is it Jim Alley who passed away? On that SEBTS video, Darville mentioned that music minister had died.

    Did your former pastors (Darville & gang) ever attend the Together for the Gospel conference or The Gospel Coalition Conference?

    Were the women encouraged to attend the TGC conference for women?

    Did your church use The Gospel Project curriculum?

    Did any of your former pastors do a study using Wayne Grudem’s Bible Doctrine book?

    Jim is the music minister that died; I don’t know what Dennis said in the video but Jim was slated to retire before he was diagnosed with cancer the quickly died nothing after.

    A handful of women started going to the women’s TGC (I know of a few that went a few weekends ago that now attend “C3”) back when I was still at FBCRM.

    As for the remainder of your questions, I don’t have an answer. I’m not aware but then again I haven’t attended FBCRM since 2014.

  75. Where did unshackled come from? My tablet blinked. He announced his vote on whether the congregation wanted him to stay. I heard it was a shocking way to put the spotlight back on himself. I was sorry I missed the service but glad I missed the disrespect.

  76. Deb wrote:

    @ Gudbrand:

    Are the Sunday School classes still using it?

    I’m not aware of any still using it.

  77. Grieving at FBCRM wrote:

    My mouth fell open as people flocked to kneel and pray. There was no anxiety and a profound sense of relief. The presence of God was strong. I knew then for sure that the battle was over and God was once again the only personality in the pulpit that had center stage. What a joy to sit and worship without focusing on who was on which side. God is so good and faithful to those who follow Him and truly love their church family.

    This was beautiful – thank you for sharing it!

  78. Does anyone know if the former youth pastor at FBC was a willing participant or was he just dragged along with the deception train? Is youth pastor a Calvinist? That has not be clarified during this post.

  79. Unepetiteanana wrote:

    I used to help one of the regular children’s choir teachers; I’ll have everyone know that all those teachers were wonderful and spent a lot of time and their own money on those children. Those teachers took their job very seriously. I’m speculating, but I think part of the problem was that this program was from Jim Alley’s days. Neither Tim Griffin(children’s’ pastor) nor Mike Avery(teen/youth pastor) liked Jim Alley(former music minister who was extremely talented and loved the Lord) and it was never obvious why. I spent 6+ hours a week in rehearsal with Jim Alley and he inspired me to love Jesus with all my heart. He was someone that I still miss like a father or grandfather and it always hurt my heart to know those two men gave him grief. Jim never spoke of this to me, but other members knew. Mike Avery didn’t like the teens joining any music ensembles but Jim always encouraged those who did to do their very best; he showed them off.

    I also believe another reason they removed these regular children’s choir teachers was because it wasn’t biblically intense enough. The Bible was taught plenty, but it wasn’t Team Dennis’s brand. That’s something about Calvinists that I will never understand – if you’re not flogging yourself over your sins while simultaneously talk about grace, or attending a TGC conference and getting Piper to sign your copy of his 50th book, you’re leading children with Piper, Keller, or some other Calvinist’s curriculum.

    Mikee Avery didn’t like or let the teens serve in any way at church other then what Mike was teaching or planning!!

  80. Watchman on the wall wrote:

    Shame on me for not standing up and screaming that very thing from the church pews when I knew it was wrong.

    It isn’t easy because there’s a great cost. I’ve done that once in my life, simply brought a church service to a standstill because I couldn’t take it anymore and wouldn’t let the pastor shove stuff down our throats (the pastor of the cult was saying that Jesus was not God when He lived among us and died for our sins, was just like us–the reason, according to pastor, that Jesus told us we’d “do greater things than these”, so that sort of blasphemy was just too much and I snapped and started interrupting him from the pews and simply would not back down). Lost friends (so-called), standing in the community, our closest friends at church who were planning on doing a Bible study with us simply shut us out and refused to associate with us, we never saw them again except for one tense minute in Walmart not long before we moved several states away.

    So there is a cost to telling the truth and refusing to back down, but that’s kind of what Jesus told us would happen.

  81. Max wrote:

    Certain “elders” in New Calvinist works in my area are some of the meanest people on the planet.

    My experiences with that crowd:

    Mean
    Cruel
    Lazy if anyone other than a leader asks for a favor
    Divisive
    Destructive of true fellowship
    Stingy
    Arrogant
    Ignorant
    Incompetent
    Hateful
    Pompous
    Excessively flattering of those whom they view above them in station
    Excessively dismissive of those whom they view below them in station
    Fake nice
    Fake godliness
    Use sickly sweet words that mean exactly nothing
    Trendy to a fault, always latching onto the latest catchphrases
    Sound exactly nothing like Jesus
    Act nothing like Jesus

    What are we to call such people? Christians?

  82. Martha wrote:

    Does anyone know if the former youth pastor at FBC was a willing participant or was he just dragged along with the deception train? Is youth pastor a Calvinist? That has not be clarified during this post.

    Perhaps those who are still attending FBCRM can address your question. My hunch is yes.

  83. Gudbrand wrote:

    Honestly, I’m a little surprised North Carolina Wesleyan College has embraced Christ Covenant Church the way they have, especially considering the way the Rocky Mount community at large views what has happened. Most of the folks I have talked to think it’s repugnant. Many of those who were “courted” before and after the split, with dinners and visits, were affluent. However, some were chosen because of the long time connections they have in the RM area. Some of these connections (the good old boy network) have been used to secure their on campus meeting place.

    These would be megas led by so-called Christian leaders tend to focus their flattery and capital on local colleges and universities, perhaps thinking they will be a steady stream of people and money through the doors–and if you can land a prof, perhaps the students follow.

    As my nom de plume indicates, I teach at a university (and have a large family), and we were very heavily recruited by one. The recruitment got to the point of the head pastor of the local would be mega offering to pay out of church funds a very significant sum of money to repair a home system we had that had recently broken down (we’re talking $10,000+). My wife had mentioned the troubles we were having in a prayer meeting, a mamber of this church happened to be present, and before we knew it we were being called by this person and her husband and pressured into accepting an absurdly generous gift from a pastor we didn’t know from Adam who pastored a church we’d never attended. It was presented as some great benevolence, but of course, pastor would be using other people’s money and if accepted, this would put enormous pressure on us to attend. When we said we didn’t feel comfortable accepting such a large gift from a pastor and church who were strangers to us (and we were nice and careful when we said it), we were flat out berated by these people, called “proud”, accused of condemning their pastor by not accepting his gift. It got very ugly.

    Call me cynical, but I think the offer had nothing whatsoever to do with goodwill or kindness.

  84. Deb wrote:

    @ Law Prof:
    That’s quite a testimony! It must have been awful when they turned on you.

    It was weird. Here were these people who were care group leaders at a church, which was with their pastor’s blessing supposedly offering us a way out of our financial troubles and as soon as we questioned them just a little bit (i.e., “Wouldn’t it be better to use your church benevolence fund on people who are impoverished rather than middle class people with a need they can meet themselves with a home equity loan?”; “Don’t you think it’d be best if your pastor knew us before he gave the green light to having $14,000 of church funds transferred to us?”) they absolutely turned on us. These nice “Christians” became so hostile. It was one of the strangest evenings we’ve experienced.

    Their church wanted us, plain and simple. It was a business decision all the way. So glad we turned them down. By the way, we later looking into the church, checked out their website. Watched a few sermon videos. 29 year old metrosexual assistant pastor with jeans so tight you can tell his religion. 35 year old assistant pastor preaching a sermon about how important it was for him to humble himself and “come under authority” (of head pastor, not Jesus, heaven forbid), 45 year old head pastor giving a sermon where he goes through a series of slides talking about their new multimillion dollar eyesore facility in the burbs.

    We dodged a bullet. So glad we finally stopped the couple in their tracks, told them they were attending a cult, and walked right out of their house and never looked back.

  85. He was already at work putting the youth only in activities with him. I talked to him about why he wasn't training them to be future worship leaders since they are our future church leaders. He didn't answer. They never participated in the service. No singing, handing out bulletins, taking up offerings, etc. Some youth participated in orchestra but did not attend other youth functions outside of Sunday School. I used to be very active with the youth, and he never called on me when he took over. @ Deb:

  86. On the Wesleyan question…God has blessed me with so many Christian co-workers, and one in particular had become very dear to me. Before the church split, their church, like many others, had an active part in student ministry on campus. Knowing campus leaders, she shared that Wesleyan was aware of the theology clash and the secretive way Dennis and his group were attempting to take over FBC and were concerned about their presence on campus. Dennis' group asked to use their chapel for services. They were not allowed the chapel and were offered the lobby, instead of an outright refusal.

    Because my son was getting ready to enter the youth group, I took my son and we started visiting Sunset Avenue Baptist Church. Jim Alley had ties with them and thought highly of their church leadership. At this point, I was disillusioned because this was my first experience with a church split and didn't want to land in another ugly situation. The very first sermon was uplifting and wonderful. No doubt their church is healthy. And the number of strong Christians that were there from FBC was a comfort to me. Had Dennis won, we would have joined. But I have been a member of FBC since 1979 and although Sunset was wonderful, it was not home.

    I went back to FBC the day we voted on whether FBC leadership would stay or go. My husband was uncertain and continued to take my son to Sunset until he was sure the "coast was clear". I had made it clear that my child's view of God's kingdom would not come from the youth pastor at FBC. To deliberately participate in destroying healthy successful ministries that produce kingdom results is just a blatant sin in my opinion. May not have been carved in stone on a mountain top, but I was brought up believing that if you are not for God's work, you are against God's work.

    After the split, when I got a call that he was moving up to youth and who the Sunday school teachers would be for him, I almost cried with relief. My son returned with my husband that following Sunday. What a joy to have my family back together. And no more secretiveness from youth leaders. We get regular texts from his SS teachers about all their activities.

  87. @ Grieving at FBCRM:

    I have been researching the Neo-Cals for almost eight years now, and if I were the president of N.C. Wesleyan College, I would be keeping a sharp eye on this new church that meets on their campus. I'll just leave it at that…

  88. Grieving at FBCRM wrote:

    Lea, of course they were unpaid. And they gave years of service for free and touched so many lives. They and I are all unpaid musicians that donate our talent to God. And church musicians attend a lot of practices that most people don’t realize are happening. I attend three a week during the summer and more from fall to spring. It is my gift and calling. I get blessed in so many ways. I cannot imagine a church service without orchestra, choir, handbells and so much other music. That meant nothing to Dennis.

    Of course music takes a lot of practice. I have extremely fond memories of the lady who did the childrens choir as a child. She was a pro.

    I remember a not nearly so bad but similar situation when I was a kid and the unpaid music director was replaced by a paid assocpastors son in law paid position. My dad pointed it out because I was a kid and not paying so much attention, but now I see why he thought that was so inappropriate.

  89. Deb wrote:

    @ Grieving at FBCRM:

    I have been researching the Neo-Cals for almost eight years now, and if I were the president of N.C. Wesleyan College, I would be keeping a sharp eye on this new church that meets on their campus. I’ll just leave it at that…

    Darville and President Dewey Clark are good friends. Dewey preached at FBC right before the split. I wouldn’t be surprised if Darville ends up with a teaching position at NCWC….

  90. If Dennis Darville gets a position teaching at N.C. Wesleyan College, then I will know all I need to about Dewey Clark. I know I would certainly not be letting a fox into my hen house unless I was trying to weed out a lot of my chickens. Because I believe that is what will happen. They cannot co-exist with people they don't agree with. A lot of my Christian friends have beliefs that are somewhat different from mine and we don't debate the small stuff. My disagreements with Dennis are too big NOT to fight over if I ever speak with him again.

  91. Christiane wrote:

    Ron Oommen wrote:

    I have never been comfortable with the take or leave it style “witnessing” that was urged upon us since I can remember.

    I think about the Greek ‘martus’ which means ‘witness’ and it’s derivative word ‘martyr’ which many Christians are familiar with; and I do believe that the way people live (and die) unselfish lives of Christian witness impact greater than someone using only words …. look at the lives of people who left their comfort zones behind and went out into ‘the great empty’ bearing within them the light of Christ … people here might think about Lottie Moon and her love for her Chinese people, dying of starvation at 60 pounds because she had given her food away to them in famine. Now THAT’S a ‘witness’ that makes sense to me. Self-giving, to the point where one is living in imitation of Christ …. that honors the term ‘witness’, in the best sense of the word, yes.

    Amen! That was indeed a true witness to the love of Christ, isn’t it?