Elevation Church Removes Video of Furtick on Stage Hugging Norm After Prison

This video was on our previous post.  Why? 

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Comments

Elevation Church Removes Video of Furtick on Stage Hugging Norm After Prison — 131 Comments

  1. As of now, It Never Happened.

    oceania has always been at peace with eurasia, Elevators.
    long live Pastor!

  2. Proof that someone at Elevation Church is doing behind the scenes work. Most likely a woman who’s been told to do it. Meanwhile Steven, Chunks, Larry and Wade are putting their heads together to come up with an incoherent excuse to sell this week-end for Steven’s deception.

  3. I wasn’t expecting that to happen…said no one, ever.

    Is there some secret, mega-pastor, corporate-church, ego-maniac policies and procedures manual out there? Because this is following the established order nicely.

    Perhaps this is what they talk about in the Cabal of Overseers’ meetings.

  4. Reminds me of how Joseph Stalin as the dictator of the Soviet Union used to redo the pictures and images to edit out or re-write history. There is a classic image of Stalin with appearing next to Lenin (if I remember correctly) that was doctored in at the Finland Station in St. Petersburg ahead of the October 1917 revolution. The second revolution is the one that propelled him into power. During that time Lenin downplayed Marxism and socialism because he feared that would prevent people from supporting him. How many fundamentalist do the same thing as Lenin did in the fall of 1917? Hmmmmm…..

  5. Great point and question on Twitter-

    @kingjimmy1982: Norm would need internet access to use the InJesus Fellowship platform to communicate with eGroup. The question is why Norm at @ElevationChurch being a pedophile even has internet access to begin with.

  6. As I was alluding to in the previous post, this may be a prelude to another rant on Sunday similar to his “shake the snake” nonsense after the whole staged baptism story on NBC Charlotte. He’s entertaining himself with Periscope now, but I’m sure he’s thinking about how to go after us for “slandering(TM)” him and his “hero” Norm.

  7. @ Amy Smith:

    That is what I was thinking. It would make sense in light of him being on a registry and the way Furtick has handled this. What better way to promote cheap grace (other than promoting autograph signings) than to hire him?

    Here is how I think it plays out. The video would most likely not come down unless some Elevators are actually pushing back on not being told he was a pedophile. Perhaps many thought his crime was theft or DV or something they find easily forgivable in that culture. Children can become another matter, altogether for some even in that culture.

    These churches and the celebs run on money flowing. Anything that threatens that has to be dealt with immediately cos they don’t take chances where money is concerned.

  8. AnonInNC wrote:

    He’s entertaining himself with Periscope now, but I’m sure he’s thinking about how to go after us for “slandering(TM)” him and his “hero” Norm

    That pretty much sums up what I saw in mega church leadership circles: They “entertain” themselves with different fads, etc, all the time. They are the most coddled, insulated, entitled and narcissistic grown men in the world.

  9. Burwell Stark wrote:

    Is there some secret, mega-pastor, corporate-church, ego-maniac policies and procedures manual out there? Because this is following the established order nicely

    Good point. I actually think it is not so secret standard corporate risk based assessment to avoid any fodder for the plaintiff in the inevitable litigation that will come from turning this guy lose on the flock. I’ve seen this play out in every mega church with a scandal. It’s in the CYA to do list page 243.
    1. Come up with plausible statement to deny involvement with subject and or distance yourself from subject.
    2. Pretend the internet actually forgets things.
    3. Remove all social posts, media and online references.
    4. Criticize the blogs spilling the beans
    5. Hunker down in mansion and or other high end mega pastor retreat.

  10. Lydia wrote:

    These churches and the celebs run on money flowing. Anything that threatens that has to be dealt with immediately cos they don’t take chances where money is concerned

    Exactly right, and the best way to find out how mean and vicious they can be is to interrupt the cash flow. Deebs, I know you are not scared and I am sure many of us would come to your aid spiritually and materially, but do not be surprised if this somehow results in threats of litigation.

    It amazes me that they make it sound as if Norm has only committed some internet crime like hacking, fraud, interstate money laundering when in reality he has comitted a crime that very very few people can even understand let alone relate to. It is just sick and I hope this is the wakeup call the Elevators need, if this doesn’t do it obviously the elevators don’t go all the way to the top!

  11. Olivia wrote:

    Proof that someone at Elevation Church is doing behind the scenes work. Most likely a woman who’s been told to do it.

    And who will be handed all the blame if Plausible Deniability needs to be invoked.

  12. AnonInNC wrote:

    and his “hero” Norm.

    The “hero” language and on-stage hug is part of what I mean by the odd gushiness of Furtick’s praise of Vigue. It is totally unnecessary if the only point is to refer to God’s grace in the life of a sinner. At least it seems unnecessary to me to make that point, and that is why my I ask myself why someone would go out of their way to make a big deal out of a pedophile? There is so much downside to making a huge deal out of it, and what is the upside that makes the risks worthwhile. Surely Furtick is not so delusional as to think the real nature of Vigue’s crime would not come out, is he? He isn’t someone I know much about.

  13. AnonInNC wrote:

    As I was alluding to in the previous post, this may be a prelude to another rant on Sunday similar to his “shake the snake” nonsense after the whole staged baptism story on NBC Charlotte.

    I’d like to see Furtick and his Poster Boy Norm unzip and shake their snakes onstage.

  14. Gram3 wrote:

    Surely Furtick is not so delusional as to think the real nature of Vigue’s crime would not come out, is he?

    Maybe he is.
    “ABRACADABRA = I SPEAK AND IT IS SO!”

  15. Gram3 wrote:

    The “hero” language and on-stage hug is part of what I mean by the odd gushiness of Furtick’s praise of Vigue. It is totally unnecessary if the only point is to refer to God’s grace in the life of a sinner. At least it seems unnecessary to me to make that point, and that is why my I ask myself why someone would go out of their way to make a big deal out of a pedophile? There is so much downside to making a huge deal out of it, and what is the upside that makes the risks worthwhile. Surely Furtick is not so delusional as to think the real nature of Vigue’s crime would not come out, is he? He isn’t someone I know much about.

    yes, this perplexes me, too, because it is so obvious. OTOH, when you have had as much mind control over people as Furtick has had for a few years now, you can start to believe in your own power to control the narrative. Being in such a bubble world as Furtick and his followers are– is nothing to pass off. Groupthink is incredibly powerful. It usually takes something in your face and massive for people to even begin to question.

    In a way, Furtick positioned the whole Norm thing all along as “wrong” to inquire as to his crime. He did not have to say it. He modeled it. And his people trust him. ‘We believe in grace and forgiveness here so don’t be hateful and ask’. that sort of positioning.

  16. Gram3 wrote:

    The “hero” language and on-stage hug is part of what I mean by the odd gushiness of Furtick’s praise of Vigue. It is totally unnecessary if the only point is to refer to God’s grace in the life of a sinner.

    There are 15,000-17,000 “Elevators.” If Norm was not called out on stage, praised by Steven, and not given a small group/Bible study to lead, we probably wouldn’t have been aware of him since he’d likely be just a face in the (very large) crowd. But by trotting him out and making him a “mascot,” Steven drew attention to him – for better or for worse.

    Steven can mind-control his followers not to investigate, but it is arrogant and/or naive of him to think that those outside Elevation wouldn’t look into the matter sooner or later. Of course, Steven practically oozes arrogance and his followers naivete, so perhaps this should be expected from this crowd.

    And Norm’s story is more “audacious” than the story of the guy who, say, stole lottery tickets from the mini-mart and was “saved” and “repented” for his crime. And Elevation thrives on “audacity.”

  17. AnonInNC wrote:

    And Norm’s story is more “audacious” than the story of the guy who, say, stole lottery tickets from the mini-mart and was “saved” and “repented” for his crime. And Elevation thrives on “audacity

    Addendum: Even if the true nature of his crime was never clearly spelled out. But that defeats the purpose of choosing an “audacious” story.

    Okay, I’m back to asking, “Why Norm?”

  18. I have old friends at Elevation who became different people once they became Elevators. There came this shift where everyone had to stand when Steven came in a room, if you disagreed with something, you were ostracized. The biggest example of this was when a certain position was hired, then fired because he wasn’t “on board with the vision”. Larry Brey came and took the guy’s super special Elevation pastor ring back, in the middle of the man having to uproot his young family because he’d just been fired from the church. It was very, very sad.

  19. AnonInNC wrote:

    Addendum: Even if the true nature of his crime was never clearly spelled out. But that defeats the purpose of choosing an “audacious” story.
    Okay, I’m back to asking, “Why Norm?”

    Maybe Norm knows something that they don’t want made public??

  20. Elizabeth Lee wrote:

    AnonInNC wrote:
    Addendum: Even if the true nature of his crime was never clearly spelled out. But that defeats the purpose of choosing an “audacious” story.
    Okay, I’m back to asking, “Why Norm?”
    Maybe Norm knows something that they don’t want made public??

    You may well be correct in wondering if there is anything else hiding under this particular rock, but purely IMHO, you are skating pretty closely to some libelous ice in this comment…..

    We don’t want to be guilty of false accusations or perhaps painting someone else’s behavior as criminal rather than naive or stupid!

  21. Off the Elevator wrote:

    I have old friends at Elevation who became different people once they became Elevators. There came this shift where everyone had to stand when Steven came in a room, if you disagreed with something, you were ostracized. The biggest example of this was when a certain position was hired, then fired because he wasn’t “on board with the vision”. Larry Brey came and took the guy’s super special Elevation pastor ring back, in the middle of the man having to uproot his young family because he’d just been fired from the church. It was very, very sad.

    this goes on more than people might think. And they rarely hear about it because the guy does not want to draw attention to it. He has a family to support under horrible circumstances.

  22. molly245 wrote:

    We don’t want to be guilty of false accusations or perhaps painting someone else’s behavior as criminal rather than naive or stupid!

    We know Vigue is a convicted criminal, but no one has said that Furtick is a criminal. I have observed something which lacks a good explanation *for me.* I haven’t made any accusations because I have no basis to do so. However, there has been more than one instance where people have observed that things did not fit when it turns out that they actually did fit with something else. If there is a something else, I don’t know what it is, and I don’t even know anything about Elevation except what I real on The Blogs. I think it is a stretch to think that Furtick is naive or stupid.

    I still don’t have a good grip on the timeline of when Elevation started, when Vigue’s conversion/baptism occurred, etc. It’s hard for me to keep the dates and the people straight when I lack a context. Driscoll was easier for me.

  23. Olivia wrote:

    Most likely a woman who’s been told to do it.

    Interesting comment.

    Both Amy Smith and I were turfed to Bailey Anderson’s voice mail and have not received a response. She is quite young and apparently has an undergraduate degree in sports management which, of course, is irrelevant to the current situation although Elevation watching is now becoming a sport at TWW and Watchkeep.

  24. Burwell Stark wrote:

    Perhaps this is what they talk about in the Cabal of Overseers’ meetings.

    I truly laugh at the name, Overseer. It kind of reminds me of the Overlords in Falling Skies-big, manipulative and quite impressed with themselves.

  25. Tim wrote:

    It’s all about Mr. Furtick’s vision.

    I still get a chuckle out of that coloring book picture of Furtick which emphasizes the crotch area. It says for me what I shouldn’t say.

  26. Amy Smith wrote:

    I think perhaps Norm is an employee at Elevation Church. Can anyone confirm?

    Ditto. Could any readers let us know? We will keep your name anonymous.

  27. AnonInNC wrote:

    I’m sure he’s thinking about how to go after us for “slandering(TM)” him and his “hero” Norm.

    This time he has a problem. The court documents outlining the crimes.

  28. Gram3 wrote:

    I still don’t have a good grip on the timeline of when Elevation started, when Vigue’s conversion/baptism occurred, etc. It’s hard for me to keep the dates and the people straight when I lack a context. Driscoll was easier for me.

    Court records state that “Norm found his faith in 2004.” The federal crimes he pleaded guilty to were committed in Jan-Feb 2005. Elevation Church began in 2006.

  29. Lydia wrote:

    he video would most likely not come down unless some Elevators are actually pushing back on not being told h

    I hadn’t thought of this. I hope you are correct.

  30. dee wrote:

    Burwell Stark wrote:

    Perhaps this is what they talk about in the Cabal of Overseers’ meetings.

    I truly laugh at the name, Overseer. It kind of reminds me of the Overlords in Falling Skies-big, manipulative and quite impressed with themselves.

    Interestingly, the word ‘bishop’ is derived from the Greek word for ‘overseer’.

  31. Mitch wrote:

    Deebs, I know you are not scared and I am sure many of us would come to your aid spiritually and materially, but do not be surprised if this somehow results in threats of litigation

    They will have trouble doing so. In the US we can only get in trouble if we deliberately tell a lie, knowing it was lie, and that we did so in order to cause malicious harm to another. All of these need to present in order to go after us.

    We saw the court documents and chose to believe that they are telling the truth. However, this law also allows us to believe one side of a story. So, take Casey Anthony’s acquittal of killing her daughter. I, along with many others, believe that she was guilty. I can say that and not be in trouble because I believe it to be true. I do not have to prove it is true.

    Then they have to prove I told deliberate lie in order to cause malicious harm to Casey Anthony.That is quite difficult to prove.

    Now, if I said that Steven Furtick was a transvestite and did so knowing I was lying, I could then be hauled into a court. PS-As far as I know, he is not a transvestite and I would never deliberately lie about something like that.

    Finally, the laws are different in Canada and Europe.

  32. Off the Elevator wrote:

    he biggest example of this was when a certain position was hired, then fired because he wasn’t “on board with the vision”. Larry Brey came and took the guy’s super special Elevation pastor ring back

    I would be very interested in hearing more about this story. I would love to see a picture of the super special pastor’s ring. Is it expensive?

  33. molly245 wrote:

    You may well be correct in wondering if there is anything else hiding under this particular rock, but purely IMHO, you are skating pretty closely to some libelous ice in this comment…..

    i disagree. Asking a the question “What did they know and when did they know it” is a classic question in trying to figure things out.

    Libel means deliberately and knowingly telling a lie. This comment doesn’t come close.

  34. dee wrote:

    Burwell Stark wrote:
    Perhaps this is what they talk about in the Cabal of Overseers’ meetings.

    I truly laugh at the name, Overseer

    “Back when we had slavery, “Overseers” were those whose job was to keep the slaves in line.”
    — Alien Nation

  35. dee wrote:

    Tim wrote:
    It’s all about Mr. Furtick’s vision.
    I still get a chuckle out of that coloring book picture of Furtick which emphasizes the crotch area. It says for me what I shouldn’t say.

    Considering the nature of Norm’s conviction and Elizabeth Lee’s speculation about “Whether Norm knows something that Pastor(TM) doesn’t want made public?”, this fits right in.

    Lotta MenaGAWD going down in sex scandals these days, to the point they need a take-a-number system….

  36. dee wrote:

    I would love to see a picture of the super special pastor’s ring. Is it expensive?

    That’s “Sooper Speshul”.

    And how many of them were made?
    Seven for the Dwarf Lords in their halls of stone?
    Nine for mortal Men doomed to die?
    But One for Pastor and His Vision…

  37. Furtick: “The video is gone? You mean inaccessible on the Internet? Isn’t God good? It’s a “God thing”, He performed a miracle and made it disappear!! Thank you Lord!!”

  38. roebuck wrote:

    Interestingly, the word ‘bishop’ is derived from the Greek word for ‘overseer’.

    Exactly. Episcopos (“epi-scope”, or over-seer) The English “bishop” comes directly from this, but the New-Calvinists insist on translating it “elder.”

    But that’s another story.

  39. @ Ted:

    Also the English word “Episcopal,” pertaining to bishops, or to the Episcopal Church. Two more reasons to translate it “elder” in 1 Timothy 3.

  40. Ted wrote:

    roebuck wrote:

    Interestingly, the word ‘bishop’ is derived from the Greek word for ‘overseer’.

    Exactly. Episcopos (“epi-scope”, or over-seer) The English “bishop” comes directly from this, but the New-Calvinists insist on translating it “elder.”

    But that’s another story.

    The New-Calvinists are flat out wrong. They are twisting meanings beyond recognition.

  41. As far as a job, I think Norman has an on-line collectibles business called “kollectomania” listed out of Shelby. He sells “antique” toys, baseball cards etc. I don’t know if it is successful or still in business, but it is on the Internet.

  42. Amy Smith wrote:

    Court records state that “Norm found his faith in 2004.” The federal crimes he pleaded guilty to were committed in Jan-Feb 2005. Elevation Church began in 2006.

    Elevation is only 9 years old? So Norm “got saved” in 2004, got caught in 2005 —all before Elevation. I can hear the spin now.

  43. Ann wrote:

    As far as a job, I think Norman has an on-line collectibles business called “kollectomania” listed out of Shelby. He sells “antique” toys, baseball cards etc. I don’t know if it is successful or still in business, but it is on the Internet.

    So he definitely has internet access. Here’s his business http://www.icollect247.com/kollectomania/

  44. Amy Smith wrote:

    So he definitely has internet access. Here’s his business http://www.icollect247.com/kollectomania/

    Hold on a second. Are you telling us a convicted online puveyor of child pornography has a business selling collectables that could really be considered in some respects as attractive to children? I really can.not understand how that is even possible. First I kind of thought that since his crime was committed online that he would have no internet access at all. Second, I thought he.would be.prohibited from enterprises that would attract children. I can not be the.only one who was that nieve.

  45. @ Gram3:

    Can you imagine how exclusive and important they must feel to be able to wear a ring the Furtick’s have bestowed upon them around church on the weekends when the plebes are there?

    Talk about being “set apart”. :o)

  46. Gram3 wrote:

    AnonInNC wrote:
    and his “hero” Norm.
    The “hero” language and on-stage hug is part of what I mean by the odd gushiness of Furtick’s praise of Vigue. It is totally unnecessary if the only point is to refer to God’s grace in the life of a sinner. At least it seems unnecessary to me to make that point, and that is why my I ask myself why someone would go out of their way to make a big deal out of a pedophile? There is so much downside to making a huge deal out of it, and what is the upside that makes the risks worthwhile. Surely Furtick is not so delusional as to think the real nature of Vigue’s crime would not come out, is he? He isn’t someone I know much about.

    I’m not sure what’s going on here, but if we start from the assumption (which may well be wrong) that Furtick is a sociopath or has strong tendencies in that direction, it’s very common for such people to engage in almost unimaginable lapses in judgment that can destroy all they carefully build. We think of them as cunningly taking advantage of those “encumbered” with empathy or a conscience, but one halmark of the sociopath is a near inability to learn from mistakes and sometimes a hubris that leads them to do the very worst thing from the perspective of self interest. In a strange way, a person so afflicted is naive almost like a child. I think of Doug Phillips allegedly dating and parading his tenderly young paramour around the very city where he was a pastor and his Vision Forum empire was headquartered.

  47. dee wrote:

    Mitch wrote:
    Deebs, I know you are not scared and I am sure many of us would come to your aid spiritually and materially, but do not be surprised if this somehow results in threats of litigation
    They will have trouble doing so. In the US we can only get in trouble if we deliberately tell a lie, knowing it was lie, and that we did so in order to cause malicious harm to another. All of these need to present in order to go after us.

    This is true, but only as applied to public figures such as Furtick; the malice element is not required as a general rule for non-public figures in the U.S. But of course, the context in which you’re making this statement is regarding Furtick. One other thing, most courts will view malice a bit more broadly that requiring actual knowledge of falsehood. For example, if you should’ve known the information was false, but didn’t really give a rip and recklessly published it anyway, that will generally satisfy the malice requirement. As for Vigue, as a non-public figure he wouldn’t have to prove malice, though D&D have done nothing regarding him other than point to public court records, and that is not defamation even if made with the most malicious intent imaginable.

    On the whole, I see nothing you’ve done that meets the standards of defamtion, so we’re holding hands there.

  48. AnonInNC wrote:

    AnonInNC wrote:
    Okay, I’m back to asking, “Why Norm?”

    In a word…. Shelby.
    Larry Stevens Furtick started his ministry career as a music director at Christ Covenant Church in Shelby, NC where he became buds with two other Shelby-ites, James “Chunks” Corbett and Jason “Jay” Rabon. Chunks, who basically runs Elevation, used to work in Shelby as a physical therapist (which apparently qualifies you to be an executive pastor). Chunks met Norm while working on Norm’s arthritic knees. Norm collects full disability presumably for these bum knees (his only other medical data listed was meds needed for high blood pressure and narcotics for his knees). Norm certainly seems fine enough to work night and day slavishly at Elevation for free. Perhaps that should be investigated as well. That doesn’t sound too disabled to work to me. Chunks claims to have met Norm in early 2005 which would be after or at the time of Norm’s arrest for child pornography.
    .
    Furtick and Chunks together incorporated Elevation in 2005 while still in Sheby and later moved to Charlotte (Matthews) to start Elevation church which officially opened in February 2006. They encourage Norm to come along. Norm did not stumble onto Elevation by happenstance or shrouded in secrecy. He was invited by the top two executive pastors to come be part of the church from its very launch despite his felony sex crime against children arrest. We see by the blog posts, books and videos that they eagerly embraced him and couldn’t wait to have him represent Elevation.
    .
    Jay Rabon claims to have known Norm back in 2004 a year befor Norm’s arrest. Jay moved from the Shelby area where he grew up, to the Charlotte area, and became an Elevation pastor in 2008. That means Jay would have known Norm in 2004 when Norm claimed to the court he found Jesus – so Jay knew Norm during the full year he was saved before Norm deliberately and actively sought out and purchased the child pornography that triggered his arrest in early 2005. Jay should have known better. He has kids of his own.
    .
    Chunks and Furtick not only placed a known sex criminal in a position of trust inside the church where he interacted freely and heavily with visitors unfamiliar with Norm’s history, it was also Chunks who has personally acted as Norm’s porn accountability partner. Imagine that, the second most powerful man in Elevation has time to review Norm’s Internet activity regularly.
    .
    What drew these three men to Norm in the first place, we know not. Norm was a 350 lb male in his mid-50’s in 2005 when Furtick, Rabon and Chunks were in their mid-20’s. Furtick in particular is obsessed with his body image and fashion statements. This doesn’t seem like a likely fit. What we do know is that all three pastors wrote letters to the judge in support of Norm. In fact 100% of every single letter supporting Norm for his sentencing hearing – requesting leniency – came from people inside Elevation Church. Think about that. Norm has lived throughout the East Coast for over a half century yet all the letters on file came from Elevators, most of whom had known him for only 16 months or less. No letters from Norm’s relatives, co-workers, neighbors, doctors or lawyers, not even his own parents, siblings or children. Nope. Only people that barely knew him were willing to risk their reputations to vouch for this man. Don’t you reckon there is a really good reason for this deafening silence?
    .
    I think innocent Elevators have been sold a bill of goods. I have reviewed Furtick’s statements against the legal documents that are available and there are many discrepancies where church members seemed to have been deliberately misled about the nature and timing of the crimes and the legal proceedings. Furtick as a young man naively decided to knowingly run with a pedophile and registered sex offender as his poster child to represent what Elevation is all about and now, after knowing more sordid details, still is seeming to double down on that decision as more facts come to light.
    .
    I hope all of these discrepancies over time will be reviewed in full and Furtick will be called out on why he intentionally misled people about this crime. Furtick, with knowledge and forethought, placed a registered sex offender into a position dealing with the public and without full disclosure to newcomers, who number in the thousands. If this is not a violation of the letter of NC law, it is at least a violation of the spirit of the law. Sex offender registries specifically exist to protect the public from unwittingly being exposed to felony sex offenders in trust reliant environments such as churches and schools.
    .
    For the other person who asked about a probation officer, Norm’s records show he has a PRS requiring supervised probation for 8 years after release in 2011, so he should have one. The PO’s name is not generally made available to the victims or public. Norm was able to retain the services of a partner at a prestigious top law firm in Charlotte to both drag out and fight these charges. One also has to wonder how a man, who used to work in retail, who is now living on disability, was able to afford a top rated law partner to represent him. With counsel like that it’s possible he has petitioned to have the supervision removed by now. Where is Stuart Watson when you need him? Oh that’s right. Chunks and Larry Boy didn’t like his reporting.
    ..
    Shelby is the connection, AnonInNC. As to motives you’ll have to ask Norm, Rabon, Furtick or Corbett. Small towns hold loads of secrets. Norm’s greatest aspiration was to get a “buff bod” in prison like Furtick and Chunks. I can’t be the only person who cringed over that statement coming from a pedo. That’s where your real answer lies. Maybe if you hang out in Alexander McQueen’s in London or the Tory Burch section in Neiman’s you can ask Furtick yourself. At least you’ll be able start by asking them about the Sheby connection.

    More on Chunks Corbett for those unfamiliar with him:

    There is one man living in the Charlotte area who runs Elevation: Chunks Corbett. If you want to understand Elevation you have to understand his role,” reports WCNC-TV. “As executive pastor, Corbett is at the center of Furtick’s organization. In 2005 he incorporated Elevation Church. In 2007, he incorporated Corban Properties Southeast — a for-profit company. In 2008, he signed on as trustee for the Jumper Drive Trust that owns the Furtick’s (incredibly expensive) home. And in 2009, he incorporated Sun Stand Still Ministries — another non-profit. All four list the same principal address: 11416 East Independence, Suite N, the location of the Matthews church.”
    Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/who-are-the-megachurch-leaders-who-decide-elevation-church-pastor-steven-furticks-secret-salary-and-influence-his-ministry-107741/#vCkV6PCSf5G1eI0z.99

  49. Ann wrote:

    As far as a job, I think Norman has an on-line collectibles business called “kollectomania” listed out of Shelby. He sells “antique” toys, baseball cards etc. I don’t know if it is successful or still in business, but it is on the Internet.

    what else would a guy interested in little kids do for a living but sell toys? and who would be interested in buying or trading baseball cards as much as kids?

  50. Law Prof wrote:

    As for Vigue, as a non-public figure he wouldn’t have to prove malice

    isnt the pastor repeatedly bringing him to everyones attention publicly in a huge church and posting (with his consent) videos of every time the pastor wants to praise him, encouraging people to go to his bible estudy whatever, and the fact that his trial and sentance were public, reason enough to consider him (Vigue) a public figure? just wondering and thanks in advance.

  51. roebuck wrote:

    Interestingly, the word ‘bishop’ is derived from the Greek word for ‘overseer’.

    Roebuck, you are correct, as is presbyter and elder. However, they are more Bilderberg than Biblical.

  52. @ LT:

    Wow, quite a history. Thanks. I was wondering how Norm was making a living but now I also wonder how much the SBC gave Elevation to start up.

  53. @ LT: This doesn’t sound like a church in a traditional sense, but a racket. Is everything tax free under the umbrella of “church” or “ministry?” This is well worth investigators taking a look at because it could border on the criminal, and it is a totally Judeo Christian value to detest corruption. That “house” and other things about that “ministry” sicken me.

  54. JeffT wrote:

    Wonder if they each got a Spandex uniform to go with it?

    I think that the ring comes with nothing more than an implied threat, and the constant insecurity that it entails. The threat is: “Now you have something that we can take away from you if you ever step out of line. And if we take it away, we’ll do it publicly, to make clear to everyone your status as a Non-Person.”

  55. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    And how many of them were made?
    Seven for the Dwarf Lords in their halls of stone?
    Nine for mortal Men doomed to die?
    But One for Pastor and His Vision…

    Maybe that One Ring allows the “Pastor” to become invisible at will, just like Sauron’s. I bet Steven Furtive would love that. I can just imagine him huddled in some corner, saying to himself, “If I just hide from the reporters and watchbloggers long enough, it’ll all go away…”

  56. Serving Kids In Japan wrote:

    The threat is: “Now you have something that we can take away from you if you ever step out of line. And if we take it away, we’ll do it publicly, to make clear to everyone your status as a Non-Person.”

    Like it!

  57. @ Mark:
    I believe that some churches have stepped over the line in the nonprofit sense. If churches lose their tax exempt status, thy will have only themselves to blame. Too many churches have sat by and allowed the rich pastors buying expensive things ignored to better serve the poor.

  58. sam wrote:

    what else would a guy interested in little kids do for a living but sell toys? and who would be interested in buying or trading baseball cards as much as kids?

    That worries me.

  59. @ Serving Kids In Japan:
    Does Elevation Church fit the definition of a “cult.” I have been reading about personality changes. I realize “Elevators” will feel persecuted by this description, but I am just wondering. Years ago I was attending a SBC mega church. I had and still have problems with the cooperative program. The preacher wanted to debate me on this issue. Now I probably couldn’t be on staff at an SBC church, and wouldn’t want to be, but I wasn’t shunned out of the church. What is bar of person being shunned out of Elevation Church?

  60. LT wrote:

    What we do know is that all three pastors wrote letters to the judge in support of Norm. In fact 100% of every single letter supporting Norm for his sentencing hearing – requesting leniency – came from people inside Elevation Church. Think about that. Norm has lived throughout the East Coast for over a half century yet all the letters on file came from Elevators, most of whom had known him for only 16 months or less. No letters from Norm’s relatives, co-workers, neighbors, doctors or lawyers, not even his own parents, siblings or children. Nope. Only people that barely knew him were willing to risk their reputations to vouch for this man. Don’t you reckon there is a really good reason for this deafening silence?

    Is there anyway I can get this verified? I want to write another post in the near future and this figures prominently into the intent of that post

    LT wrote:

    Norm collects full disability presumably for these bum knees (his only other medical data listed was meds needed for high blood pressure and narcotics for his knees)

    Do you know if he is still on narcotics for his knees? Is there anyway I can confirm that he is disabled?

    LT wrote:

    Chunks and Furtick not only placed a known sex criminal in a position of trust inside the church where he interacted freely and heavily with visitors unfamiliar with Norm’s history, it was also Chunks who has personally acted as Norm’s porn accountability partner.

    Do you know if Norm was accompanied by another adult the entire time he was interacting with visitors?

    Also, porn accountability partner is a bit of a misnomer. There are ways to get around the accountability which everyone knows. That doesn’t mean that Norm does this.

    It has been reported that Norm runs an online business dealing with collectibles. Do you know anything about

  61. @ Elizabeth Lee:
    jesus did not give out log wear. It was earned. It is called the Cross and most of the disciples went to their death to earn the right to be in that select club.

  62. Law Prof wrote:

    On the whole, I see nothing you’ve done that meets the standards of defamtion, so we’re holding hands there.

    Thank you for correcting me. But, I thought Vigue is a limited public figure. He is being featured on Elevation’s website and featured in Furtick’s books. He is introduced as the church’s mascot.

  63. roebuck wrote:

    Blogging Truth to Power

    Since TWW is linked to in that post, we intend to write about that tomorrow. We want to better define how TWW speaks truth to power and I think you will like it.

    Blogs are making a difference and I am proud to be called a *watchblogger.* I will even cop to occasionally eating extra crunchy Cheetos. However, I hate basements and would never, ever blog in one. There could be hairy legged spiders down there.

  64. Mitch wrote:

    Hold on a second. Are you telling us a convicted online puveyor of child pornography has a business selling collectables that could really be considered in some respects as attractive to children?

    Beats me. I think my andI need to do a bit more work figuring this stuff out.

  65. Becky Hill wrote:

    And I bet it was a decoder ring…

    It may have a secret compartment with a needle that can jab another person and deliver a hypnotic that will make them more amenable to being an Elevator.

  66. Mark wrote:

    @ Serving Kids In Japan:
    Does Elevation Church fit the definition of a “cult.” I have been reading about personality changes. I realize “Elevators” will feel persecuted by this description, but I am just wondering. Years ago I was attending a SBC mega church. I had and still have problems with the cooperative program. The preacher wanted to debate me on this issue. Now I probably couldn’t be on staff at an SBC church, and wouldn’t want to be, but I wasn’t shunned out of the church. What is bar of person being shunned out of Elevation Church?

    What is a cooperative program?

  67. It is a denominationally administered missions program of Southern Baptists. It has some good points in that missionaries are taken care of and don’t have to plug for missions dollars at local churches. Its downside is that there is a lack of contact between missionaries and local congregations and missionaries can feel no obligation to visit the local congregations who support them. I will agree the the society method is not the most efficient method to support missionaries versus the cooperative program. When I was a Cooperative Program or Southern Baptist I missed missionaries speaking at local churches. It really is an encouragement to the local church, which we can’t forget is also a mission field.

  68. @ Mark:

    Certainly there is a downside to everything, but I think the cooperative program for missions is better. Here is mostly why. We had a relative by marriage who was and IFB missionary who had to go on deputation every time they came back to the states. It was a huge burden, because he was sponsored by a lot of churches who gave very little per church, and he had to make it around to all of them all the time. What they needed to be doing was getting the children in american schools so they did not lose contact with their home culture, and scheduling lots of medical and dental appointments, and time for family and friends in place of just work-work-work for their own mental health and time for an interim secular job for that year to supplement their income and maintain certain skills. Eventually he told several of the churches that he did not want them to sponsor him anymore-what they gave was not enough to tear up his life to that extent. At least, that is the way he told the story.

  69. @ refugee:
    Refugee. I tried to answer your question though I forgot to link you to my answer. It has been a controversy within the SBC since the 1920s.

  70. @ Okrapod: Thanks. I agree with you but I just wish it was more personalized with local churches who really are sending these missionaries. Now I am not so much against it. I just think it could be better.

  71. Mark wrote:

    I will agree the the society method is not the most efficient method to support missionaries versus the cooperative program. When I was a Cooperative Program or Southern Baptist I missed missionaries speaking at local churches. It really is an encouragement to the local church, which we can’t forget is also a mission field.

    I suppose that sort of thing is dwindling. But I cannot remember being in an SBC church that did not have missionaries home coming to speak. In fact, many churches hosted them with the provision of housing, car, etc while here.

    I have seen what Okrapod mentions with some extended family not in the SBC and it is a nightmare when they come home. They are lugging 3 kids all over the country making presentations and trolling for support. They have to become expert fundraisers.

    However, I do not see the CP as a continuing viable economic model in this global economy. Most of the money comes from very small churches and very little of it from mega churches in the SBC. The mega churches tend to do their own thing.

    As an aside, David Platt is the president of the IMB. He is a former mega church pastor with very little missions experience. I really think they thought his celebrity name in those circles would bring in more money. If you recall he visited the very dangerous country of Dubai and reported from the dangerous outpost of the Dubai Hilton. Or at least that is what he wanted folks to think. All hat and no cattle?

  72. sam wrote:

    Law Prof wrote:
    As for Vigue, as a non-public figure he wouldn’t have to prove malice
    isnt the pastor repeatedly bringing him to everyones attention publicly in a huge church and posting (with his consent) videos of every time the pastor wants to praise him, encouraging people to go to his bible estudy whatever, and the fact that his trial and sentance were public, reason enough to consider him (Vigue) a public figure? just wondering and thanks in advance.

    Sure, possibly. What you describe is the sort of thing that might get a person there, it’s an amorphous concept, case-by-case. If Billy Graham took along a friend to his crusades and regularly held him up as “my hero”, that would almost certainly make him a public figure. Public figures need not be national or international, they can be regional, public figures need not seek the limelight, it could be by happenstance, they could be thrust into it by circumstances or someone else–maybe Furtick. So maybe.

  73. dee wrote:

    Law Prof wrote:
    On the whole, I see nothing you’ve done that meets the standards of defamtion, so we’re holding hands there.
    Thank you for correcting me. But, I thought Vigue is a limited public figure. He is being featured on Elevation’s website and featured in Furtick’s books. He is introduced as the church’s mascot.

    It was a very minor correction, a nuance. Your position was in the range of B to B+ if you’d written it in an essay question. And yes, Vigue might meet those standards for limited public figure, Sam also brought that to my attention. I thought it had just been a one-off, not a pattern with Furtick propping up this guy to his congregation.

    Touché!

  74. dee wrote:

    Becky Hill wrote:

    And I bet it was a decoder ring…

    It may have a secret compartment with a needle that can jab another person and deliver a hypnotic that will make them more amenable to being an Elevator.

    Like the first injection of Borg nanites?
    RESISTANCE IS FUTILE…
    PREPARE TO BE ASSIMILATED…

  75. dee wrote:

    JeffT wrote:

    Wonder if they each got a Spandex uniform to go with it?

    That is something that I never, ever want to see.

    “There is an upper weight limit for Spandex.”
    — Rostler’s Rules of (SF con) Masquerades

  76. Lydia wrote:

    @ Elizabeth Lee:

    Oh wow. There really is a club ring.

    And the sigil on it looks like a Lambda (Greek Letter “L”, also the sigil of the Gay Rights Movement).

  77. Gram3 wrote:

    @ Lydia:
    Let me guess. It has a cool logo because Branding is everything.

    The logo is a Lambda (Greek Letter “L”) which is also the sigil of the Gay Rights Movement.

  78. JeffT wrote:

    Steve Furtick channels the Green Lantern. Wonder if they each got a Spandex uniform to go with it?

    I think he’s got the color wrong.
    Try Yellow Lantern, Red Lantern, or Black Lantern.
    (I don’t have a Book of Oa, so the above colors as a secondhand guess.)

  79. roebuck wrote:

    Ted wrote:

    roebuck wrote:

    Interestingly, the word ‘bishop’ is derived from the Greek word for ‘overseer’.

    Exactly. Episcopos (“epi-scope”, or over-seer) The English “bishop” comes directly from this, but the New-Calvinists insist on translating it “elder.”

    But that’s another story.

    The New-Calvinists are flat out wrong. They are twisting meanings beyond recognition.

    My Dear Wormwood:

    I refer you to my previous epistle on Semantics, specifically the redefinition of words into their “diabolical meanings”.

    Your Ravenously Affectionate Uncle,
    Screwtape

    P.S. Nowhere do we corrupt so effectively as at the very foot of the altar!

  80. Elizabeth Lee wrote:

    I would love to see a picture of the super special pastor’s ring. Is it expensive?

    That place has more perks then Google. For all the “sacrifices” to be on staff there I do not know many companies that buy their staff custom jewelry and does Christmas parties at McCormick and Schmick. Business must be booming.

  81. @ LT:

    I would really like to see an Investigative Report/Totally Unauthorized Biography on connections between Pastor, Chunks, and Pedo Mascot. Totally behind-the-scenes. I suspect it would read very similar to L Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman?

  82. LT wrote:

    What we do know is that all three pastors wrote letters to the judge in support of Norm. In fact 100% of every single letter supporting Norm for his sentencing hearing – requesting leniency – came from people inside Elevation Church. Think about that.

    I did.
    Pastor/Dictator, his two cronies, and a lotta sock puppets.

    In Marxspeak: Party Commissar for Spontaneous People’s Demonstrations?

  83. Elevation sounds like The Real Story could get as juicy as Scientology’s.

    And Furtick’s Real Story could get up there with L Ron Hubbard’s.

    If Furtick is Elron, does that make Chunks Miscavage?

  84. dee wrote:

    There could be hairy legged spiders down there.

    How can you not love a fluffy bug?

    #arachnophile

    (Though, strictly speaking, spiders are not bugs.)

  85. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    If Furtick is Elron, does that make Chunks Miscavage?

    I would say more like Karen Pouw. A talking head who runs interference for the Big Cheese, so that he doesn’t have to deal with the Evil, Evil Media. And apparently, even the talking head won’t consent to speak on camera. That’s Karen Pouw all the way.

  86. dee wrote:

    Mitch wrote:
    Hold on a second. Are you telling us a convicted online puveyor of child pornography has a business selling collectables that could really be considered in some respects as attractive to children?
    Beats me. I think my andI need to do a bit more work figuring this stuff out.

    I wonder what the stipulations are for his probation? Selling toys (collectible or not) could be a problem.

  87. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    The logo is a Lambda (Greek Letter “L”) which is also the sigil of the Gay Rights Movement.

    I’m about to choke on my charity here, but could that not also symbolize “elevation” like a mountain?

  88. @ Lydia: All of what you are describing, plus the Graham, Patterson, Noble, and Furtick scandals, makes me glad I no longer consider myself a Southern Baptist. There has been described a new group of independents who are leaving the SBC and whose churches are leaving quietly. It has to do with the culture wars and the doctrinal conflict (ie neo Puritanism versus the legacy of E Y Mullins) within the convention. The Cooperative Program which not only funds missionaries but the SBC itself may not be a viable option, but the Convention itself may be in irreparable decline, not just the declines in baptisms mentioned in the news. Also highly visible and influential leaders who have scandals such as those above, don’t help the SBC. We can name a scandal behind each name. I consider Furticks ministry to be corrupt.

  89. dee wrote:

    I hate basements and would never, ever blog in one. There could be hairy legged spiders down there.

    So you would be ok if they shaved their legs? 🙂

  90. Mark wrote:

    @ refugee:
    Refugee. I tried to answer your question though I forgot to link you to my answer. It has been a controversy within the SBC since the 1920s.

    Thanks.

  91. Well folks, it’s Sunday. Guess we wait and see whether Steven addresses the Norm issue and how he goes about it. Pat of me wants to attend Elevation just to check it out, but another part of me doesn’t want to lose my hearing from the rock music…

  92. AnonInNC wrote:

    Well folks, it’s Sunday. Guess we wait and see whether Steven addresses the Norm issue and how he goes about it. Pat of me wants to attend Elevation just to check it out, but another part of me doesn’t want to lose my hearing from the rock music…

    … and he had one of his assistants preach today. so I don’t think they’ll address Norm (I can’t stay to livestream the entire thing.)

  93. AnonInNC wrote:

    AnonInNC wrote:
    … and he had one of his assistants preach today. so I don’t think they’ll address Norm (I can’t stay to livestream the entire thing.)

    Steven hasn’t preached the last four Sundays. How many people in the audience at Elevation can take an entire month off their jobs and still keep them?

    Proof, once more, that Steven, James (Chunks) and Larry knew exactly what they were doing when they started a church in gullible Charlotte, NC.

  94. Olivia wrote:

    AnonInNC wrote:
    AnonInNC wrote:
    … and he had one of his assistants preach today. so I don’t think they’ll address Norm (I can’t stay to livestream the entire thing.)
    Steven hasn’t preached the last four Sundays. How many people in the audience at Elevation can take an entire month off their jobs and still keep them?
    Proof, once more, that Steven, James (Chunks) and Larry knew exactly what they were doing when they started a church in gullible Charlotte, NC.

    Steven would never stand for the giving units taking a month off. They have to make that money to keep their tithes rolling in.
    .
    Furtick needs to learn from the master if he’s ONLY taking a month off. Every summer Robert Morris of Gateway Church takes 8 weeks off. He claims he only takes 6 weeks off but he prerecords at least one sermon so a full 8 weeks transpires between his summer sermons. That’s the joy of broadcasted sermons. This year Robert gets an additional 10 weeks off for sabbatical which he takes every five years because he says he needs to rest in order to “create”. The thing is he hasn’t “created” a new sermon in the last five years. They are all rehashes. With all the Gateway turn over few notice or complain.
    .
    Morris has no office at GW and performs no other pastorly duties yet he needs 8-10 weeks a year off from all that golfing and boating. He did break his sabbatical yesterday in order to prop up his daughter Elaine who he hired to preach this weekend’s sermon in his absence. She already takes in a FT salary as her husband’s ministry coordinator. She doesn’t even show up anymore to see her husband preach so not really sure what she does. However, she just closed on a brand new larger home this week so daddy needed to give her a large honorarium in addition to two large pay checks for her and hubs. Despite the church paying thousands to try to make her into a professional speaker, she only has one message and she comes off arrogant, privileged and condescending so people cut out when she speaks.
    .
    So crafty daddy, the king of manipulation, specifically did not pre-announce this weekend was her sermon. They then collapsed the Sat 4pm and 5:45pm service together for the first time in years in order to make the service seem more full. Then Elaine did not speak on Sunday so the Sat 4pm would be aired on Sunday so no one could see how few people showed up to see her after folks found out this was Elaine’s weekend.
    .
    Robert made sure to personally buoy up his daughter. He comes off his sabbatical just to introduce Elaine. He opens by telling everyone how Elaine attended Oral Roberts Universary implying she has a degree. In reality Robert had to pull a massive favor from Mark Rutland who was then the President of ORU in order to have his daughter moved ahead all the other deserving students with actual academic credentials who sat on a waiting list, so Elaine could start attending in January 2010. She had disgraced her family with her “very immoral” “double life” which ended in a “near death experience”. Of course, no immoral lifestyles occur on college campuses, so great move Robert. At least her immoral double life wasn’t on display in Southlake this way.
    .
    How long did this last? Exactly one semester. Robert bumped serious students so Elaine could attend for a little over 3 months. She took a few classes then quickly dropped out to marry some guy she had only met months earlier. Of course that too was God anointed. Robert easily misleads his own flock into believing his daughter has a university education. After all, he claims to have a PhD even though he dropped out of a tiny college after two semesters. That’s a Morris family trait. Exaggerate all your achievements and maybe no one will remember the truth over time.
    .
    Elaine did graduate from Beauty School but flaked out of that profession after a couple of weeks. Robert said today that he “believes God has called her and put an anointing on her to speak God’s word” instead of telling the truth that she painted herself into a corner and daddy now uses tither’s money and resources to bail her out. Robert and Elaine both totally distort her education and work experience for personal gain. Furtick and his ilk will learn from this as all their children will enter the family business whether God has called them or not. It’s like a Borgia dynasty only with lower standards and more manipulation.

  95. AnonInNC wrote:

    … and he had one of his assistants preach today. so I don’t think they’ll address Norm (I can’t stay to livestream the entire thing.)

    Steven Furtick is in Ohio today speaking about God drowning enemies. https://twitter.com/yolandacperry/status/617741488881930240
    Last night Matt Furtick (Steven’s brother?) tweeted:
    @MattFurtick: @a_la_branscum Chris whoever it is just has a pathetic existence attempting to smear’s Steven’s reputation. Best bet is to ignore!

    He’s referring to reading TWW post on Furtick and Norman Vigue. https://twitter.com/mattfurtick/status/617556688644673537

  96. @ LT:
    Sad to say, but this is already happening with the Furtick family. The three children (2 boys, 1 girl) are constantly put on display by their parents. Steven has said many times that he never wants to leave Charlotte and hopes his children follow in his footsteps.

    These four weeks Steven has taken off are not the only weeks he’s abandoned the Elevation church pulpit. He’s had time off during the first six months of this year, too.

    Since Steven has ties with Robert Morris, he may very well be taking lessons from him.

    Love your comment about the Borgia dynasty! So true.

  97. Olivia wrote:

    Steven hasn’t preached the last four Sundays. How many people in the audience at Elevation can take an entire month off their jobs and still keep them?

    I saw that too this morning. Must be nice to be able to take a whole month off and still earn enough to live in a 16,000 square foot “not that great of a house.”

    On a semi-related note, his assistant pastors seem to be learning well from the master, sadly.

  98. @ Amy Smith:
    Matt seems to come out of the woodwork when Steven really gets hammered. Matt is with the military in Japan, but he’s home currently.

    When the news broke about Steven’s huge mansion, Matt was there in all his fury until he was roped in.

    There’s a lot riding on Steven. He’s got three kids, his mother is a widow, Holly doesn’t work, he got a house to maintain that’s big enough for eight families to live in and now Matt’s home. Lots of people depending on Steven to bring in the money week after week. I’m betting there is going to be some “woe is me” if/when Steven addresses his actions with Norm.

    Has anyone else noticed how many couples work at Elevation? That would be downright scary to me, knowing my entire household income could be wiped out a la Mars Hill.

  99. Olivia wrote:

    @ LT:
    Sad to say, but this is already happening with the Furtick family. The three children (2 boys, 1 girl) are constantly put on display by their parents. Steven has said many times that he never wants to leave Charlotte and hopes his children follow in his footsteps.
    These four weeks Steven has taken off are not the only weeks he’s abandoned the Elevation church pulpit. He’s had time off during the first six months of this year, too.
    Since Steven has ties with Robert Morris, he may very well be taking lessons from him.
    Love your comment about the Borgia dynasty! So true.

    And Robert takes lessons from Steven as well. Robert’s last three homes he recently purchased were hidden in secret trusts like Furtick’s. Gateway has also fully embraced Elevation’s spontaneous baptism movement in order to pump up their annual salvation numbers. Want a cool swag bag? Let me dunk you on a video and you get to keep all the gear. Cha-Ching! You’re saved now. Both churches are adopting the worst of each other’s practices.
    .
    I am so grateful to see your posts @Olivia. The thing these megas fear the most is insiders telling the truth about what really goes on inside the cult. They have such slickly produced and controlled public images. On the inside it’s like a Kentucky moonshine clan. They can’t control you and they can’t stand that. Most have done whatever they wanted to for more than a decade with total impunity. This lack of even a shred of public accountability inevitably leads to more and more outrageous behavior until you end up with sex crime offenders being exalted with lifetime achievement awards at the expense of other member’s safety. They are so used to no questions that they don’t even see the harm in what they have done.
    .
    Matt Furtick may throw out the typical “pathetic existence” line and instruct others to ignore, but they are NOT ignoring. Now that Gateway is on the radar of these blogs, despite claiming to never read them, they do read them. They take notes and they at least try to cover their tracks a little better. Morris does not harp endlessly about his nonexistent collegiate experience any more. His son-in-law tries to explain how taking a class or two at daddy Robert’s “university” – where not even the local community colleges will accept transfer credits – almost counts as seminary training. They don’t ignore this stuff, they read it and throw hissy fits like a 65 year old soap star who can’t cope with that new fangled high definition technology. Then they try to figure out how to spin their lies and cover up their flaws better.

    Your words matter to many. If the Holy Spirit dwells within them, Elevators will have a nagging feeling that something isn’t right there. Unfortunately, the weekend experience is really intense so for a while the really loud, powerful worshipping will drown out that nagging voice. But it will persist. People reach different turning points and when they do, and they find your comments, it will speak to them in a profound way. Then they will dig up all of the other TWW posts on Elevation and scour every word you’ve written. They will see that you are speaking the truth. The scales will begin to fall off their eyes and your words will be hugely helpful to them in leaving this cult.

    You won’t necessarily know when or how many find your words and derive comfort. Most readers don’t comment. But I know that people do turn to these blogs for answers and your insights are helping people.

  100. Olivia wrote:

    @ Amy Smith:
    Matt seems to come out of the woodwork when Steven really gets hammered. Matt is with the military in Japan, but he’s home currently.
    When the news broke about Steven’s huge mansion, Matt was there in all his fury until he was roped in.
    There’s a lot riding on Steven. He’s got three kids, his mother is a widow, Holly doesn’t work, he got a house to maintain that’s big enough for eight families to live in and now Matt’s home. Lots of people depending on Steven to bring in the money week after week. I’m betting there is going to be some “woe is me” if/when Steven addresses his actions with Norm.
    Has anyone else noticed how many couples work at Elevation? That would be downright scary to me, knowing my entire household income could be wiped out a la Mars Hill.

    Gateway does the exact same thing. They end up employing entire families. Why? Because that results in complete loyalty at all costs. These families will savagely defend the unity of their vision casting leader as if their lives depended on it…..because they do. Such families will cover up all bad deeds, take one for the team and even cover up crimes if necessary. GW and Elevation seek to buy their employee’s loyalty. In the end, like their “authentic communities” it’s really just rented, not owned.

    Gateway is supposed to be building two new churches this year – one in the Frisco area and one in Ft Worth. They cost millions even when it’s just a renovation. They are also renovating Robert’s old church in Grand Prairie for millions. Now they just told Tim Ross they would fund his church plant in Irving and I hear there may be an interesting announcement not too far off that could be very expensive. Mars Hill fell in less than a year mainly because they had expanded too quickly when the scandals hit. Gateway has more cash reserves than MHC. But they have plenty of skeletons in their designer prayer closets.
    Building Towers of Babel is a tricky business.

  101. LT wrote:

    That’s a Morris family trait. Exaggerate all your achievements and maybe no one will remember the truth over time.

    “A lie repeated often enough becomes the Truth.”
    — Reichsminister Josef Goebbels

  102. a href=”#comment-205260″ title=”Go to comment of this author”>LT wrote:

    Your words matter to many. If the Holy Spirit dwells within them, Elevators will have a nagging feeling that something isn’t right there. Unfortunately, the weekend experience is really intense so for a while the really loud, powerful worshipping will drown out that nagging voice.

    But as long as Pastor can shine his Stupid Ray on them every weekend (i.e. faster than it can wear off)…

  103. @ LT:

    Speaking out is the right thing to do, LT. Of course one never knows how their words will be received and when. Thank goodness for the internet and specific bloggers those words are left for people to read much later and reflect upon.

    I laughed about your comment on mega churches being similar to a Kentucky moonshine clan! In the case of Elevation church it’s more like the Moncks Corner, SC/Shelby NC clan. It’s rooted very much in the Southern good ole boy culture and women had best be quiet. The fact that it’s women bloggers who are breaking the stories just infuriates them all the more.

    I’m grateful you speak out, too. All of us have our different perspectives based on what we have observed. Keep up the good work.

  104. Serving Kids In Japan wrote:

    Maybe that One Ring allows the “Pastor” to become invisible at will, just like Sauron’s. I bet Steven Furtive would love that. I can just imagine him huddled in some corner, saying to himself, “If I just hide from the reporters and watchbloggers long enough, it’ll all go away…”

    With his Lead Pastor’s Vision Ring(TM)?
    More like:

    “Shre nazg golugranu kilmi-nudu,
    Ombi kuzdurbagu gundum-ishi,
    Nugu gurunkilu bard gurulu,
    Ash Burz-Durbagu burzum-ishi
    Daghburz-ishi makha gulshu darulu.
    ASH NAZG DURBATULUK! ASH NAZG GIMBATUL!
    ASH NAZG THRAKATULUK AGH BURZUM-ISHI KRIMPATUL!
    Daghburz-ishi makha gulshu darulu.”