"No one makes me laugh and cry, worship and repent, pray and praise more than C.J. Mahaney…"
Thoughts After the Culmination of the Resolved Conference
Rick Holland – Screen Shot of Twitter Photo
It appears that your 'discernment divas' have really fallen down on the job because we failed to call attention to a guest pastor who spoke at Sovereign Grace Church Louisville over a month ago.
Rick Holland, who currently serves as Senior Pastor of Mission Road Bible Church in Kansas sent out this Tweet hours before making his appearance.
Had we seen GTY (Grace to You) Mailroom Guy's remark earlier than today, we might have chimed in sooner. 
For our readers not familiar with Rick Holland, he served alongside John MacArthur at Grace Community Church for 25 years. While there, he founded the Resolved Conference, which was held annually for eight years. We knew nothing about it until the 2009 trailer was released in order to publicize the conference. It was called The Scream of the Damned, and the tone and content of that video made me want to scream! The following year I shared my concerns.
The Resolved team then launched another conference last summer called Anchored. The Gospel Coalition announced this brand new conference last year, but as far as we can determine no announcement has been made about this conference for 2015.
Getting back to Rick Holland, he traveled to Louisville last month to speak at the Renown Conference, which was held at Southern Seminary. Al Mohler had spoken at several Resolved Conferences, so it was no surprise that Mohler would invite Rick Holland to speak at his conference. After the two-day event, Rick delivered a message entitled A Christian's Response to Difficulty at SGCL. He and Mahaney have been friends for at least 10 years, and in the following video (starting at the 1:45 mark), Rick explains why he invited Mahaney to speak at the first Resolved Conference. (FYI, C.J. spoke at all eight Resolved Conferences).
As the Resolved Conference came to a close, Rick Holland wrote two posts about it — Thoughts on the Last Resolved Conference and Thoughts After the Culmination of the Resolved Conference. The latter post included the following information (see screen shot below).
We are astounded by the way C.J. Mahaney's pastor friends continue to stand by their man despite the mounting evidence.
One of the most outspoken critics of SGCL guest preachers is Todd Wilhelm. Todd's latest post alerted us about Rick Holland's visit to Louisville. In case you haven't read it, we are including a portion of that post below. Thanks Todd for your courage to speak out about some extremely serious matters.
Rick Holland Joins the Hall of Shame
Todd Wilhelm
It has been nearly two years since I wrote an article about seven celebrity pastors who made their way to C.J. Mahaney’s runaway church plant in Louisville, KY. These men all delivered sermons at Mahaney’s church – apparently happy to utilize their celebrity status in an attempt to bolster the severely listing ship of Sovereign Grace Ministries and C.J. Mahaney. If you have been reading my blog you will know that C.J. Mahaney was the leader of Sovereign Grace Ministries during the time period that SGM leadership was doing their best to cover-up a purportedly large scandal of sexual abuse of children in their churches. Mahaney claimed, and still claims, ignorance of the whole situation, but a child of 3 could detect his Clintonesque lie.
Since the time I wrote my initial article on the shameful seven who preached at Mahaney’s runaway church plant much more evidence has come to light, all very damning to Mahaney and his group of psychophants. Included is the conviction and sentencing to 40 years in prison of Nathaniel Morales. Morales worked with the youth at Covenant Life Church and sexually abused numerous boys. His actions became known to church leadership, but they chose not to alert law enforcement, leaving Morales to continue abusing children. Grant Layman, brother in-law of C.J. Mahaney and a former pastor at Covenant Life Church, testified to this under oath at the Morales trial. Joshua Harris, who took over duties as senior pastor from Mahaney, also recently admitted this in an interview with the Washington Post.
There is now such a preponderance of evidence in this case that any individual with a lick of common sense would rightly wonder how a “man of God” could, with a clear conscience, accept an invitation to preach at C.J. Mahaney’s church. Yet there seems to be a handful of men with consciences sufficiently seared that are willing to make the trek to Louisville.
Rick Holland is one such preacher. One can only guess at Holland’s motives. He may say he is standing up for his friend, but I would suggest a true friend of Mahaney’s would advise him to resign from the ministry. My guess is Holland has a burning desire to become one of the big name celebrities – you can detect it in his tweets and the conferences he organizes and speaks at. Being a friend of Mahaney’s used to propel one to celebrity status on the conference circuit. Not anymore. Mahaney is damaged goods. It seems nobody has gotten the word out to Rick Holland though, and he apparently is not bright enough to figure it out. Celebrities like Mark Dever, Al Mohler, John Piper and John MacArthur all used to be vocal supporters of Mahaney, but even though they have never retracted their endorsements of the man, they seem to be doing all they can to distance themselves from him, at least publicly.
Back in June of 2014 Mahaney spoke at a conference organized by Rick Holland. I, along with numerous others, wrote the conference organizers urging them not to have Mahaney as one of the speakers. Below is my email. I never received a response or even an acknowledgment of receipt. As a matter of fact I have a friend, Steve, who managed to have a phone conversation with Holland prior to the Anchored Conference. He attempted to dissuade Holland from having Mahaney as a speaker. He was obviously unsuccessful. During the course of the conversation Holland told Steve he had never received an email from me, so Steve forwarded him a copy.
From: Todd Wilhelm <toddlwilhelm@gmail.com>Subject: C.J. MahaneyDate: March 7, 2014 at 10:58:48 PM GMT+4Dear Anchored Conference Organizers, I write to you in hopes that you will reconsider having C.J. Mahaney speak at your conference in June. The man has blackmailed the co-founder of his organization and covered up sexual abuse in his church. That he is still in the pulpit is a travesty, that he is allowed to speak at conferences even worse.Thank you for considering my request.
A brother in Christ,
Todd Wilhelm
http://thouarttheman.org/2013/07/08/the-hall-of-shame/
http://thouarttheman.org/2014/03/03/grant-layman-leaves-the-ministry-to-sell-paint/
“Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves; ensure justice for those being crushed. Yes, speak up for the poor and helpless, and see that they get justice.” -Proverbs 31:8-9 NLT
“Despite what Baptist leaders may say publicly about “precious children,” when they leave predators in their pulpits and do nothing to help clergy victims, the message they send is the “you don’t matter” message. It is a terribly hateful lesson for religious leaders to teach and it betrays the very faith they purport to profess. If I had fully believed the lesson that Baptist leaders taught, I would surely be dead by now. But I was graced to have other people in my life – people who worked hard to counter Baptist teachings and to constantly remind me that my life mattered. Thank God for non-Baptists and non-believers.”…Besides, to the extent I feel something akin to a “calling,” it is a calling that comes with the mere fact of being human. It is a calling that comes with being a mother. In fact, it is a calling that sounds for every mother, every parent, and every adult. We are all called upon to protect the young, and I will never understand how so many Baptist leaders can close their ears to that calling.”
-Christa Brown, “This Little Light: Beyond A Baptist Preacher Predator and His Gang,” pages 218-21
Later in the post, Todd wrote:
Mahaney seems to keep abreast of all the men of God who make their way to Louisville for various functions at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He does his best to persuade these men to make a side trip to his small church plant while in town. I can understand that as one of five pastors for a congregation of about 80 a guy can get worn out attempting to keep up with all the work, so roping a guest speaker to address your church on Sunday morning provides a much needed respite from the weekly grind of preparing a sermon.
You can read the remainder of Todd Wilhelm's excellent post here.
Lydia's Corner: Leviticus 25:47-27:13 Mark 10:32-52 Psalm 45:1-17 Proverbs 10:22
No empathy for the abused
Certain acts disqualify a person from being a Christian pastor. This is one of them. Those who stand by him have poor discernment.
These men do not hate child rape or child molestation, that is obvious.
How can these Pastors who apparently love Jesus not speak up for those who are innocent yet have been abused by powerful men who only care about themselves? This makes no sense to me.
Oh – did Fred Butler change his Twitter handle? How cute. I better stop there.
I’m proud to be associated with “discernment blogging crazies”!!
I don’t get this whole celebrity pastor thing, but then I don’t get the Kardasians either.
I re-read Deb’s Feb 2010 post on the “The scream of the ….” conference and can only wonder why so many would pay so much to attend such an event. At least the “Early Bird Registrations” got a $50 discount, what does that make the rest who paid full price? Dumb clucks?
My first thought(toward Brother Holland) was: “GET A ROOM”!! Seriously, one has to wonder what sort of latent affection these men have for one another.
Is Mahaneys church still at the Marriott? It used to meet at Christian Academy but they have zero tolerance for child molestations and those who hide it so it was embarrassing for them to rent the facilities to Mahaney.
__
“Wet Paint?”
hmmm…
I will never understand how so many of today’s Baptist and Reformed leaders can stop their ears apparently, to the many victims of pedophiles ‘present’ in their 501(c)3 religious establishments.
Are they painting their churches ‘red’ by their slience?
—
I am not surprised by GTY Mailroom Guy’s reaction – but then again, I have seen how those associated with GTY hunt down and berate those who *they* disagree with online, so to make snarky comments about “discernment bloggers” is sheer, rank hypocrisy.
But then again, it’s not hypocrisy if you think you have the corner on Truth, is it?
@ lydia:
Here's the answer to your question.
http://www.sgclouisville.org/get-directions
@ Bill M:
The same goes for other conferences held by organizations like T4G, TGC, etc. As I have asked before, who pays all the costs to attend?
@ Corbin: 🙂
You’re still “crazy” even though Layman admitted one of the core issues of the entire case under oath. But if they still want to maintain you’re wrong, they’ll have to say Layman lied under oath (and that Harris is lying too)…which is soooooo much better, right?
I remember “Scream of the Damned”. That was Piper and Mahaneys theme. Shock jocks. I remember some reformed blogs debating the meaning of the word damned in relation to the Cross.
@ Deb:
The pew sitters.
Mohler seems to have distanced himself from Mahaney publicly but quite a few of SGM folks are very involved at SBTS. Kauflin is big there. Special privileges for CJ's son in law. Kauflins son has band there getting plenty of paying gigs. And Mohler was even going to give SGM pastor college students academic credits until it got out and SBC people were furious.
Corbin wrote:
Same here. If I were on Twitter, I’d like to say to the Mail Guy, “Who’re you callin’ crazy? You support an admitted blackmailer and an abettor of child molesters. And you call him a pastor!”
(Yeah, yeah, ‘alleged’ abettor. As it is, I’m not sure I could fit my message into 140 characters anyway.)
Margaret wrote:
Hmnm. I look at some of their behavior and do not make that assumption. I would be more apt to say “these pastors who say they love Jesus” which is sometimes an entirely different thing. It is soooo easy to look good when it is to one’s advantage to do so (see how we all love Jesus) but it is terribly difficult to do the right thing (really loving Jesus) when there may be a price to pay. Even if it is just the price of dropping out of the center ring at the good ole boys circus.
And, yes, we discussed this in small group yesterday at church; what are you going to do when actual persecution knocks on your front door. Would you wear the orange jump suit to the beach? I am thinking that somebody who only says they love Jesus for the show of it will not be in that crowd when push comes to shove.
$199-$249 for a conference. And those were 2010 rates.
You know, I regularly attend anime/video gaming conventions, and admission for those typically ranges from $25-$90. Now, admittedly, I’ve never went to any of these “GOSPEL CENTERED(TM)” conferences, but I’m pretty sure that my events (dances, video game tournaments, costume contests) would be more enjoyable to me than those events (preaching, preaching, preaching).
I don’t see myself paying $200 to listen to preaching for three days straight. Maybe I’m missing something? But somehow I doubt that these conferences involve Piper (dressed as Mario) battling Mahaney (dressed as Luigi) in a game of Super Smash Bros. Though if they did, *that* might be worth $250 to see, lol
The lure? The limelight, the adoration, the throngs, the flood of light-weight books that are partially ghost-written, and the meaningless title of “doctor.” In a word PRIDE. That they do not get they will give an accounting for every word they teach and the motive with which it is spoken does not necessarily mean to me that they do not know Jesus personally; it just suggests that they have abandoned their first true love for a thousand prostitutes. As these men age and approach the stark reality of death, it will be interesting to see if any acknowledge the wasted and self-serving opportunities.
What a bunch of unworthy people. We all sin, we all are fallen; however, leadership requires a higher level of accountability. Further, covering up such levels of abuse, some of the most vile possible, is not just “sin”… it is organized crime…
Janet Varin wrote:
I have not noticed a flood of that sort of thing as people age. My experience of aging and facing one’s own death is that there is a strong urge to find some excuse for everything I ever did. I forgive myself a lot more now than I ever did before. So, when they spin the wheel on that one I place my money on “no.”
Janet Varin wrote:
I have been around a few who were big in certain evangelical circles in the 90’s now in their 60’s. The speaking gigs tend to start drying up. Their former “fans” have grown up past that sort of thing and the younger lemmings have new hero’s to worship. Some will do just about anything to get back into the limelight. It is a sad spectacle because it only shows what their entire careers were really based upon. but of course, they don’t see it that way.
Julie Anne wrote:
He sure has a thing about *discernment bloggers.* It means we are getting to him which is a net plus.
Corbin wrote:
We crazies follow “God’s Own Fool.” Love this song!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SYjXfQtKjs
@ Jack:
You made me laugh!
Eeyore wrote:
Each time they hunt us down I know we have gotten to them. And that makes it worthwhile.
Hester wrote:
Truth does not matter.
True story: A group of people recorded a pastor admitting to doing something he said he had not done. The group played it for the elders and pastors. The pastor did not get in trouble. The people who made the recording were told that they should not have done it. It was wrong. Snort…
@ lydia:
One person on Twitter berated Grant Layman for telling the truth. They said he screwed up everything. Can you believe it?
AnonInNC wrote:
I would definitely pay to see that.
Jeffrey J Chalmers wrote:
It does but they don’t care. Thankfully, Grant Layman told the truth under oath.We now know that they did not report Nate Morales to the police. I wonder if we can then extrapolate that they didn’t report other things to the police?
This is not really a big deal but are you sure Rick served with MacArthur for 25 years? Rick was the youth pastor at the Baptist church associated with the high school I graduated from. He served there for 2 maybe 3 years while I was in high school which was just under 20 years ago. Maybe I am in denial, though, about just how old I am, lol.
aly k wrote:
He says he spent 25 years with MacArthur in his bio at his church.
http://www.missionroadbiblechurch.com/pastors
dee wrote:
I don’t think that is a very far leap. As a matter of fact it seems to be a very logical assumption. I can not get over the idea that anyones first reaction is “we don’t need to report this to the authorities”. That makes me immediatly wonder what that person is doing, what is he hidding.
There was a conversation on SBC voices recently where one person was singing the praises of Steve gaines. When another responder point out Steve’s failing in reporting a sexual predater the response was that the way incident happened before the Penn state scandal and that now people better understand how to handle such matters. Really, it took that incident for pastors to know the first thing you do is call the authorities? You mean to tell me we didn’t know that before that we were as depraved as the lost world. Or did we just figure out that God was serious that what is done in the dark will be brought to light. Crazy I tell you just crazy!
@ dee:
Weird! The church he served as youth pastor was in Michigan which he mentions in the bio. Maybe I was in Jr. High but I really thought it was highschool. And I am 35 now. Even if it was Jr. High the math seems off. But maybe it’s the new “fuzzy math.” Doesn’t really matter but it just stuck out to me.
__
“SGM Reborn?”
hmmm…
The pre-SGM, PDI organization was showing the effects of an embrace of a toxic shepherding system, and an ill pathology, long before C.J. Mahaney kicked Larry Tomsczak to the curb and stealthy lead the (then) newly re-named SGM organization into the Reformed Camp.
Metaphorically speaking, C.J. Mahaney simply moved a characteristically – separatist charismatic shepherding camp into the spiritual orbis of an extreme form of hyper-Calvinism, and started passing out the KoolAid, while his goons kept order, the rest is history.
John Calvin’s theology has been made by SGM, into the ultimate restraint system for spiritual tyranny. This is not what many believe John Calvin had intended when he penned his later famed “Institutes” nor the conclusion one can draw from his multi-volume biblical commentaries.
Individuals, and the society they are comprised , that pursued the glory of God, as the their surest and firmest foundation (and chief end), – that was John Calvin’s over arching dream, and over abiding hope for his nation, France, and the city he served while in exile.
The problem does not necessarily emanate from John Calvin’s words, but an illness birthed in a pathology of extremes.
Fighting it’s (SGM) thinking alone will do little good. It is the illness of their pathology that should be addressed as well.
Unpacked, & Expanded:
After actions, that have brought harm to countless individuals, has been appropriately and properly addressed, an illness in a pathology of extremes should be addressed, as well. Only then, will the people that comprise Sovereign Grace Ministries churches, be refreshed and encouraged to pursue the glory of God, with vigor once again, as their chief end, in their individual lives and in the life of the society they comprise.
ATB
Sopy
—
lydia wrote:
And Sam Kinnison’s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czmb6tEwFE8
lydia wrote:
Ouote reference P.T.Barnum.
And a Nigerian pop song:
“Four-one-nine just a game;
You be the mugu,
I be the masta!”
Guest wrote:
Perk of rank as a Pastor with Perfectly Parsed Theology.
Nancy wrote:
Double down AND SCREAM LOUDER!
dee wrote:
Highborn can do no wrong.
Lowborn are always to blame.
Lowborn’s only reason for existence is for the enrichment and convenience of their Highborn Betters.
From the main body of the Post:
“We are astounded by the way C.J. Mahaney’s pastor friends continue to stand by their man despite the mounting evidence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwBirf4BWew
Dee & Debs I’ve got the knitting needles out so you can fulfil mailroom guy’s prophecy in style : https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=knitted+viking+hats&biw=1280&bih=706&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=E3U2Vc29IYfbaOKJgWA&ved=0CEUQsAQ
sorry- you had me at “scream of the damned” (haven’t ready beyond that yet)
is there a literary thing for campy but not knowing it?
@ Beakerj:
Can you knit a long red beard as well?
Muff Potter wrote:
Because The HUMBLE One can do no wrong, and once you accept that and Agree Completely with Pastor, We Won’t Have A Problem, Will We?
Mr. M made some bad decisions, didn’t he? For that I hope he is sorry. His problem, or one of them, seems to be in his belief in the sovereignty of the church outside of our law. Handling matters internally is one thing, but trampling on the rights of parishioners and citizens is, and I think this case proves my point, *catastrophic*. It smacks of the oft referred to but seldom spoken of “hush, hush” factor mega-churches get themselves into. Their answer to the line, “they’re getting too big for their britches,” is often met with the worse solution of just knitting bigger ones. Now it’s become a larger problem that the church could handle and should have never handled without outside counsel – outside counsel that probably could have been sought for and given by their own laity but as much as it seems like a no-brainer the more it is revealed to be the work of the devil. There are common sense folks, I’m sure, outside of the ranks that could render a decision as clear cut as oil and water but satan worked on the selfish hearts of well intentioned men.
It is too late for those smack in the middle of this thing to admit to anything without taking a hard fall, which is satan’s plan all along and now saving face is too important than saving Grace. Now that this is entangled with the legal system the sin nature of everyone involved will forever be put forward first and fingers will be drawn and no one will take the blame without pulling as many down with them as they can.
Is there forgiveness in their stupid mistakes? God has already forgiven their sins. That’s what Christ died for on the cross, but it is getting increasingly harder for the Body of Christ to do as every second goes by without anyone manning up. It brings us all down.
As hard as it is to do, we must love them through it and pray for them that they get their “stuff” together and institute reforms in thinking, worship and their place in the Body of Christ.
The evil one definitely had a hand in this little fiasco which over the decades has grown into another battlefront that all of us must fight against in our own congregations and organizations.
Peace
AnonInNC wrote:
I regularly attend SF, Furry, and Brony cons. Though the larger lit-SF cons can get into the Gospelly(TM) price range, the others are at the level of your anime/videogame cons.
And with Furry/Brony cons, there’s a lot more interesting and fun things to do over those three days.
uccccckkkkk….. my toes are curling backwards… why can’t I have a sensible religion?!?!
and my stupid religion is what its stupid people have made of it (barring present company, of course).
lately I’ve been curiouser and curiouser about scientology, and have been reading all kinds of things (from newspapers, magazines, from leaders and members both current and former) and I’ve been sighing deep sighs ever since…. it’s just like my own stupid religion.
high as a kite and blind as bats
Bill M wrote:
It’s common for cons to offer a discount in the registration price for those who sign up early. Usually on a sliding scale; the earlier you register, the more the discount, with cutoff points between discounts (for example, six months before gets you a $30 discount from at-the-door price, three months a $10, and discounts cut off around a month before the con date. This allows the con to get seed money well in advance for hotel setup & insurance. There is also usually a hotel room block with group discount rates.
These are the country club pastors who give each other sweet speaking gigs and have each others’s back. This old boy’s network is alive and well. And judging from Internet, it’s continuing.
Watch them cover up bad behavior and promote each others’s books, cruises, and seminars.
dee wrote:
Layman was supposed to fall on the perjury sword if it came to that.
Margaret wrote:
It is possible that they are neither “pastors” in the biblical sense nor lovers of Jesus.
dee wrote:
Like the one I’m wearing now? 😉
Of course! Think I grew this myself?
Lydia wrote:
Bannerman is always supposed to fall on his sword to protect his Highborn Lord.
Janey wrote:
And Honorary Doctorates.
“One hand washes the other…”
@ Law Prof:
Pastors aren’t pure, purified, sinless, or necessarily good examples to everyone and everything. They are held to a higher standard but… I think one can only be a pastor in the Biblical sense…no way around that in any sense of the word. Are these so called pastors wolves in sheeps clothing: YES. I can only say: YES. They are deceivers or have been deceivers off and on.
Who is the great deceiver? Satan, Lucifer…aka, the devil…
-Mat 24:11 “And many false prophets will appear and deceive many,”
-Job 15:31 “Let him not trust in what is worthless, deceiving himself; for worthlessness will be his reward,” and
-1Sa 28:12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out loudly. The woman said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!” **Even Saul errored!**
-Rom 16:18 For these are the kind who do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By their smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of the naive
I’d have to say that many, if not most, mega-church pastors held accountable by TWP have worked to bolster their own ego, wealth, influence and self being that they have indeed done satans work for him. They’ve taken matters into their own hands and would rather “save face” than be set free by the Holy Spirit. Their hearts have been hardened by God…that is to say, God has set forth his commandments, his business plan, if you will, and these so called pastors have loop-holed right through those plans as if they were written in pencil.
The Lord says to distance yourself from these people and to have nothing to do with them. As this article points out evil supports evil.
Biblical pastors…I think not.
I have a couple of ex-students who are either grads or, now attend SBTS. YRR both. I cannot tell you how odd both have now become. The sad part is I could see one saying that it was foreordained that those children were abused…..for God's will. And because he has " political strings " within the SBC down here, some church will call him.
The SBC is toast my friends, and in the next 25 yrs, will be a shell of it's former self, especially in urban and suburban America. (in the rural South, there will still reign, but non-denoms will (and are ) crowding them out in the rural areas too.
K.D. wrote:
This will most likely be the case. My understanding is that rural Southern Baptist churches are leery of hiring recent grads from SBC seminaries.
I watched that video again. I found myself making hand gestures at the speakers while watching. If this is the god they worship, it is a moral imperative to challenge that god. If that means hell, you’ll find me right there.
Because he screamed…Jesus, save me from your professional Calvinist followers.
The Anchored conference was the one I planned on picketing. My father died the day before the conference started, so obviously I was picketing nobody that weekend. It’s kind of too bad.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
I signed up for Sasquan in Spokane (this year’s Worldcon, where the Hugos are given out) and it is $210. I fully expect to get my money’s worth ass as I annoy sad puppies with my SJW t-shirts. (Or Xenu is My Homeboy, I haven’t quite decided yet.)
dee wrote:
That’s a great song! I’ve never heard of it before.
“No one makes me laugh and cry, worship and repent, pray and praise more than C.J. Mahaney…”
Do actual humans talk this way? Here is a hint: this is not Christianity. Can you imagine anyone saying that to Jesus? The bottom line is that the emperor has no clothes. It is plain as a daisy that the men glomming on the CJ are all about money. And I count Mohler and Dever among those. Pathetic, and embarrassing that they expect grown men to take them seriously.
I was the “Steve” that talked with Rick Holland questioning him having Mahaney speak at the “Anchored Conference.” Just for the record I only stated that to Todd that my discussion with Rick Holland didn’t go well. I didn’t provide any details beyond that to Todd.
One important item that I don’t think you mentioned is that when Rick Holland recently preached at Mahaney’s Louisville church Holland said quite a flattering statement about Mahaney. Holland said something along the lines that he would rather hear C.J. Mahaney preach than be the one preaching at Mahaney’s church. Sadly that type of talk just shows IMO how Holland has almost deified Mahaney.
If Holland thinks like this then it is no wonder that Holland can’t see C.J. Mahaney’s sin and hypocrisy. Holland has way too high of a view about Mahaney to think and reason clearly. It is almost analogous to nepotism where when someone’s son works for them they can’t see and won’t hold their son to the same standard they would hold someone else to.
So sad.
Law Prof wrote:
Not comfortable with making judgments on the beliefs of others. Understand where you are coming from as their behaviour does not demonstrate a love of Jesus nor does their behaviour exemplify what the bible teaches that elders should do.
@ Nancy:
Pathetic definition of apparently
as far as one knows or can see.
“the child nodded, apparently content with the promise”
synonyms: seemingly, evidently, it seems (that), it appears (that), it would seem (that), it would appear (that), as far as one knows, by all accounts; More
used by speakers or writers to avoid committing themselves to the truth of what they are saying.
“foreign ministers met but apparently failed to make progress”
What do you have to say to this post by Kevin DeYoung? I'm shaking my head at the ridiculousness of each point in light of the statement hastily posted in support of embattled CJ Mahaney only one short year ago.
http://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/2015/04/21/god-of-justice-hates-false-reports/
@ Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist:
Dear Doctor,
Well said.
@ Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist:
I wonder what would happen if you compiled a list: Child Sexual Abuse Cover-Up Artists and the Men Who Love Them?
Margaret wrote:
Which makes “apparent” something in the eyes of the beholder. One person sees one thing another person sees another. What may be apparent to one, may not at all be apparent to another. That is all I am saying.
@ dee:
The crazies comment made me think of that song too. 😀
@ elastigirl:
Wow! You said it all. Thank you.
formerly anonymous wrote:
You too? It is one of my most favorite songs.
K.D. wrote:
Do you know how many emails I have gotten from families who say their kids got involved in this stuff and are now pronouncing judgments on their family. One woman said her son even started speaking oddly, like he was in a back of a pulpit even in regular conversations.
Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:
A bunch of these dude bros speak as if they are writing book endorsements. Canned and ridiculous.
@ Steve240:
I am beginning to think it is some sort of virus that has invaded the logic area of the brain.
@ Sarah:
I am going to a post on that ridiculous missive today. I intend to highlight your comment over there. I put it into a screenshot in case it disappears. I am curious to see if it will be taken down.
I have been fussing at TGC for their ridiculous comment sections on posts. Until recently it was "I love you, Brother. You are wonderful." Some of them are now allowing negative comments. I am watching yours with bated breath. Does it stand or doesn't it?
dee wrote:
It’s a good one, for sure!
Margaret wrote:
I understand, I was throwing it out there as a legitimate possibility–we may be dealing with wolves, in some cases and with some of these leaders, it’s hard to imagine that we are not.
But as you imply, ultimately, one cannot know whether they are dealing with a full-blown wolf or a rabid or hurting sheep. It is entirely possible that a Christian could have a very painful upbringing, carry emotional baggage into adulthood, get involved in an abusive church environment, work their way up through the system and do all manner of horrible things and simply be deluded and yet one day be standing there on the Day of Judgment and welcomed into Heaven.
So I agree with your sentiment. Everyone’s theology must make room for an Apostle Paul who said “I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do” and “If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire.” We all do things–some of them in the name of God–that upon further reflection we come to hate. Many Christians get off on the wrong track and their works simply do not end up being works for the Lord in the final analysis, but that does not disqualify them from Heaven. But of course, at the same time, as Jesus’s little brother said: “Faith without works is dead.” So it’s all in tension and balance.
@ Law Prof:
It is a crying shame, though, that so many making a living off teaching us about Jesus cannot be trusted to even the most basic right thing of protecting innocent children. It would seem that patterns of behavior and some of the teaching would be enough of a red flag that at the very least we are allowed to say the fruit looks rotten. But that is “judgemental”. Wait. Didn’t someone say that judgement should begin within the ekklesia?
My position is that if someone like CJ Mahaney is promoted as representing Christianity and we are too afraid to say, “no he doesn’t”, because we might be judged as being judgemental and therefore questioning is salvation by implication then we are actually enabling the false representation.
Methinks that Jesus agrees that protecting child molesters is a evil. (Not to mention all the other stuff like lording it over in a shepherding cult, blackmail, greed, etc)
@ Sarah:
Oh my. Even Kamilla came out for this one. Kevin is doing what he does best… Making it a sin to discuss patterns of behavior or believing the victims without dna proof from 20 years ago. That is really what they are going for. And we all know that child molestation is the perfect crime. Hard to prove, based upon deception and false representations of “love”. It is devastatingly evil and cruel to the victim.
Actually, Kevin is not really teaching anything that different from what CJ Mahaney taught that covered his evil deeds for so long. You see, they are the philosopher kings who know best for us what to think and do. And folks will praise him to the rafters instead of thinking it through.
BTW Sarah, You are courageous for making that comment there.
@ Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist:
Hee Hee. You know, you gotta wonder how much these guys get to come there and praise Mahaney. They rarely speak for free. I bet Mahaney is paying good money for praise these days.
Sarah wrote:
Sarah – Kevin DeYoung continues his efforts to silence the rock throwing peasants. He doesn’t seem to realize he has zero credibility to speak on this subject. In the face of overwhelming evidence he continues to believe Mahaney is an innocent man whose reputation has been sullied by liars and gossips.
DeYoung has, on several occasions, attempted to take the discernment bloggers to task for publishing articles damaging to the gospel glitterati. He accuses us of not knowing all the facts. Yet he doesn’t hesitate to rush to the defense of his fellow celebrities, displaying no concern whatsoever for the hurting victims, in spite of sufficient evidence that guys like Mahaney are dirty.
More and more evidence is revealed that shows Mahaney has covered up sexual abuse. DeYoung knows this, yet to my knowledge he has never retracted his statement of support for Mahaney. I believe he owes an apology to all those who have spoken out against Mahaney, he also owes an apology to the victims of abuse which took place when Mahaney was king of SGM.
DeYoung is an influential man in the YRR circles. His support of Mahaney was wrong. He should write an article for his TGC blog and admit he was wrong. I personally believe he knowingly, willingly and deliberately misled people, but that is based purely on common sense speculation. Perhaps he actually believes Mahaney is innocent. If so I would chalk it up to lack of street smarts; an unfortunate by-product of life spent in an ivory tower.
I couldn’t stand that post by Kevin De Young. So I wrote the following:
The level of dishonesty and outright lack of transparency from you Kevin DeYoung is an outright disgrace to the Lord. It is false witness to lie, and The Gospel Coalition is profound in its amount of dishonesty and is disingenuous with its motives. In addition to covering up child sex abuse let’s not forget that CJ Mahaney practiced blackmail against Larry Tomczak. He’s a fraud…pure and simple. But even as the lawsuit was raging CJ Mahaney was still engaging in criminal activity, and covering up child sex crimes in SGM.
http://www.brentdetwiler.com/brentdetwilercom/hush-fund-set-up-by-top-sgm-leaders-to-meet-the-demands-of-a.html
Honestly the only difference between CJ Mahaney and Richard Nixon is that Nixon had more character and acted like a man. Mahaney should have gone to prison for his criminal activities. And you honestly believe Kevin De Young that a post like this brings glory to God. What a disgrace!
I give my comment about 5 minutes before its removed.
mirele wrote:
I’d go with “Elron is Xenu!”
Or a screencap of the South Park scene with the subtitle “This is what Scientologists actually believe.”
Just don’t try flyers if Bridge Publications (Scientology’s in-house publishing company and book juicer) is in the dealer’s room. Any flyers or freebies against Scientology tend to disappear and be replaced by Bridge Publications promotionals.
If Elron didn’t leave such a trail of destruction behind him, a REAL tell-all history of Scientology would be a hoot of a farce comedy. With South Park subtitles of “Yes, this actually happened.”
TW wrote:
“These five Kings said one to another:
‘King unto King o’er the world is Brother’…”
— G.K.Chesterton, “Ballad of the Battle of Gibeon”
And a God Can Do No Wrong (HUMBLY, of course — chuckle chuckle).
TW wrote:
The peasants are not supposed to have common sense. It is a sin. :o)
@ Dan:
never fear. Your adorable blog queens have a screen shot of the comments! I am writing a post on this one today.
Meanwhile, I am sitting here being spiteful and bawling my eyes out!!! 🙂
@ Dan:
Whoa! Excellent!
@ Dan:
It is not there, Dan. did it even make it out of moderation? After all, you dissed one of the philosopher kings who knows best for us.
Lydia wrote:
Oh my. Prostituted praise.
@ TW:
I just spoke with one of the families whose child was abused. Mom told me she sent Kevin DeYoung an email explaining why his support for SGM was painful for her. He read it but did not respond.
I thought Kevin DeYoung’s piece was awful. Good God!
I left a response on the DeYoung article. I asked, “Does the God of justice also hate true reports that were never acted upon by those who had the power to do so?” We’ll see how long it stays up. (Why yes, I have a copy and a screenshot.) I named names, but I stuck to the legal record.
To the TGC fanbois reading here–there is no reason for me to trust what you’re saying about God if, when push comes to shove, you’ll defend the powerful against the powerless. DeYoung’s article was disgusting in so many ways.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Elron’s followers were able to put him on the ballot for best novel in 1987 (the year after he died). It was for one of his works in his 10-volume “Mission Earth” fiction series. It came in below No Award that year.
I really do think I am going to wear a “Xenu is my Homeboy” shirt. One of my friends got some really kewl graffiti fonts and did it up right.
I also left this comment at Kevin’s blog
Kevin-
So was Nathan Morales convicted on a lie? Did Grant Laymen, CJ Mahaney’s brother in law make a “false report” (as you say) in a Maryland courtroom under oath? If he made a false report under oath wouldn’t he be perjuring himself? Kevin De Young stop the garbage posts like this one. Get on your knees and beg for forgiveness for your complicity in this mockery. You are disgracing the Gospel, and your are hurting Mahaney by enabling him. Furthermore your inability to face reality (probably for your sovereign belief in the almighty dollar) illustrates that you are not worthy or qualified to preach the Gospel. If you had a firm command of the Gospel, and actually feared the Lord you wouldn’t write posts like this one today. You want to practice humility you can start by repenting for your involvement in this circus protecting Mahaney and for staining and injuring the Lord by speaking falsely as a minister. Jesus came to serve not be served, whereas you expect out of entitlement to be served and not serve.
@ Lydia:
It is still there, I refreshed the browser and it is posted.
Wow! I like Dan’s comment! Good job Dan!
Eagle wrote:
Thanks Eagle…
@ Dan:
Thanks both Dan and Eagle!
@ Dan:
Really? It is not showing up for me at all and I checked twice. A self censoring computer? Hee hee
Eagle wrote:
It really is appalling, due to the horrendous hypocrisy of him having been part of the statement about CJ Mahaney. That quip up thread about protecting the powerful from the powerless is spot on, & is an inversion of genuine christian fruit. I am so tired of this. One of those abusers from this sad sorry situation no-one was supposed to be talking about to do with CJ’s church is now serving 40 years, putting paid once & for all that those were just scurrilous gossipy rumours. CJ, well he’s still laughing it up.
@ lydia:
I’m sure Dan is a great guy Lydia! Last I checked his post is still there. Maybe later I’ll go over there and leave a post on Kevin DeYoung’s blog. But some of what Dan wrote was courageous, and I personally I agree both with him, and Mierle who also left a great comment.
@ Eagle:
I agree with Dan! It is just My computers are real weird about certain commentware. I know it hates disqus. I wonder if that is it? I also get a lot of glitches with WordPress, too. Sigh.
mirele wrote:
Just for you, SP Mirelle —
the Secret Scripture of OT3 in PDF format;
Revolt in the Stars by Elron Hubbard:
http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientology%20Materials/Books/Revolt%20in%20the%20Stars.PDF
(And man, does it read like bad pulp fanfic. REALLY bad pulp fanfic. Elron must have been popping too many little grey and blue pills at the time. Or doing his teenybopper orderlies from the CMO. Or both.)
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Elwrong was whack. I can’t recommend the book “Going Clear” highly enough. You have to read all the way to the end. There I learned something I hadn’t known before–how Elwrong tried to get one of his followers, a guy named Sarge, to build an e-meter of such a strength it would electrocute him. Sarge didn’t do it and Elwrong died a few days after that with drugs in his bloodstream. Ironically, back in the 1990s, a guy named Roland (a never-Scientologist) wrote an unwitting parody of this called “OT Googolplex”. Roland was more right than he knew!
Lydia wrote:
Sure it’s a crying shame. I agree whole heartedly. I’m not suggesting that in any meaningful way these knaves, abusers and third rate celebs are representing Christianity. I’m just agreeing with Margaret that it’s not fair for me to make absolute statements about their ultimate destinies. They could be, as I said, “rabid sheep”, “deluded”, and of course dangerous, the types Paul suggested we ought to give over to Satan. I just can’t fairly make an absolute judgment about their salvation, but I can say the fruits looks rotten and stink as near as I can tell.
dee wrote:
One possibility that may be going on is called “confirmation bias.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
“Confirmation bias, also called myside bias, is the tendency to search for, interpret, or recall information in a way that confirms one’s beliefs or hypotheses. … People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position.”
This bias is something that we all need to be aware of. It wouldn’t surprise me if this at least helps explain why so many leaders continue to support Mahaney despite the evidence against him.
Law Prof wrote:
It does say some will have their “conscience seared.” (I Tim 4:2) In the proceeding verse it says that they will “fall away from the faith” so could be the “rabid sheep” as you mention.
II Peter 2:2 says about “many will follow their depraved conduct” and the result will be the way of truth brought into disrepute. In this passage Peter is referring to false teachers and false prophets.
mirele wrote:
My main source for Elron was an older book: L Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman? (My money’s on the latter.)
Does this imply that Elron was suicidal and his death may have been a suicide?
(I had heard online rumors speculating whether it may have been a palace assassination as part of a Miscavage coup. Cue musical chairs…)
My sourcebook cited above also claimed that Elron was also a druggie.
Around the level of Hunter S Thompson.