"C. J. Mahaney, after serving for many years as a pastor in Maryland, is now the pastor of a church plant in Louisville."
Extra-Ecclesial Gospel Partnerships: A Mess Worth Making (TGC Website)
What a difference six years makes… In the latter part of 2008 Dee and I began to investigate the Neo-Cal crowd. We chalk it up to divine providence that we started researching this corner of Christendom. At the time we knew virtually nothing about this 'select' group; however, unbeknownst to us, Dee and I had been members of churches that were being heavily influenced by Neo-Cal leaders. 
One of the first things that caught our attention six years ago was the selection of speakers for The Gospel Coalition's 2009 National Conference. We hadn't even launched TWW when we took notice that Mark Driscoll and C.J. Mahaney were listed among the speakers at that national gathering of Reformed leaders. Not only that, these two men – Driscoll and Mahaney – came to our area in February 2009 to address college students attending a 20/20 Conference held at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. 
Getting back to The Gospel Coalition, it's first national conference took place in 2007 with 500 like-minded individuals attending. According to TGC's website:
The Gospel Coalition kicked off in late May with little fanfare, just how organizers wanted it. Any conference headlined by D. A. Carson, Tim Keller, and John Piper would likely attract more than 500 attenders with a little publicity. But Gospel Coalition leaders chose a word-of-mouth strategy and capped attendance by hosting the two-day conference in the chapel at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School (TEDS). They wanted to test their ideas on a relatively small, friendly group.
Later, Christianity Today featured an article about TGC which provided the following background information:
In 2008, the conference was a by-invitation-only, off-the-record meeting of the nearly 50 men on the coalition's council In 2009, 3,100 pre-registered and 223 walked in.
They also rolled out the Gospel Coalition Network (TGCN) on The City, a social networking site developed at Mars Hill Church in Seattle. The site will allow TGCN to approve and register members who agree with TGC's foundation documents (including their statement of faith and "Theological Vision of Ministry"). They can then organize in geographical groups.
In some ways this reminds us of the Danvers meeting that took place back in 1987. It was kept top secret until the documents could be drafted, solidifying the complementarian position. After all, it involved some of the same key individuals…
Immediately following TGC's 2009 conference, the Gleanings website of Christianity Today provided the following observation:
And these participants were overwhelmingly young men. I tried counting from my seat and came up with about 20 men per woman – not too surprising in a mid-week conference for pastors with Calvinist and complementarian views. Don Carson estimated that 80 percent were under forty.
TGC has continued to hold bi-annual meetings as well as regional meetings. The organization has even held two women's conferences. Of course, founders D.A. Carson and Tim Keller, together with John Piper, are prominently featured on the speaking schedule, along with women who toe the party line.
Since the time that the original "Council Members" were installed, a number of them have resigned, namely:
James MacDonald and Mark Driscoll (remember the Elephant Room with T.D. Jakes?)
C.J. Mahaney and Joshua Harris (SGM debacle)
Have I missed anyone else?
Even though these men no longer serve on TGC's Council, some of their interviews are still available on TGC's website. This one definitely stands out to me:
What's interesting about the speakers who have been selected for TGC's 2014 National Conference is that four out of seventy-eight are from the Raleigh-Durham area. Yes, The Gospel Coalition is having quite an influence where we live.
Based on a recent post that appeared on TGC's website, it seems not everyone is approving of The Gospel Coalition. Kevin DeYoung and Ryan Kelly collaborated on an article – Extra-Ecclesial Gospel Partnerships: A Mess Worth Making – in which they describe precedents of interdenominational fellowship and partnership during the time of the Puritans and appear to use history to justify the bonds that are being formed via The Gospel Coalition.
One thing that stood out in this article (though not surprising) was the nonchalant way that DeYoung and Kelly talked about C.J. Mahaney as a founder of Together for the Gospel. Here is what they wrote:
T4G began in 2006 as a conference for pastors that grew out of the friendship of four men who, despite their significant differences in some theological matters and in denominational affiliation, were adamantly together for the gospel. Mark Dever, the de facto leader of the group and of the conference, is the pastor of Capitol Hill Baptist (SBC) in Washington, D.C. Albert Mohler is the president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary (SBC) in Louisville, Kentucky. Ligon Duncan, until recently the senior minister at First Presbyterian Church in Jackson, Mississippi, is now the chancellor and CEO of Reformed Theological Seminary. C. J. Mahaney, after serving for many years as a pastor in Maryland, is now the pastor of a church plant in Louisville. (emphasis mine)
WHY are they downplaying Mahaney's background — oh, he's just a pastor from Maryland who is currently planting a church — and failing to mention the church where he pastored for 27 years or his lofty position as former president of Sovereign Grace Ministries?
As most of our readers know, Sovereign Grace Ministries has come under tremendous scrutiny and is not the 'family of churches' that it used to be. The number of SGM churches in the U.S. has dwindled to around 60 (and some of these are tiny church plants). Then there's the sobering fact that the church where Mahaney pastored for 27 years (Covenant Life Church) has disassociated itself from SGM. And, of course, there was the Nate Morales trial and damning testimony of Grant Layman, C.J. Mahaney's brother-in-law. Are these among the reasons why there was no mention of Mahaney's former church or SGM in DeYoung and Kelly's post? It certainly appears that some in The Gospel Coalition crowd are trying to rehabilitate Mahaney's image…
The way Together for the Gospel is described by DeYoung and Kelly in their article – as just a chummy group of like-minded friends and pastors who gather every other year – we are left wondering what the future holds for T4G given the fact that Mahaney wasn't 'together' with his buddies (at least not on on stage) at the last conference. Looks like the show will go on one more time since the 2016 dates have already been announced.
As you might imagine, the comments written under the DeYoung/Kelly post are primarily affirming of The Gospel Coalition crowd. However, one interesting comment did manage to get approved. Here is a screen shot (in case it disappears)…
In response to Will Grif's query, we happen to know of one frank comment left under this post that has never seen the light of day. Jed Paschall, a member of a small PCA church in California, wrote the following response:
Sorry Kevin, still seems like a tightly formulated articulation of the party line. TGC allows no dissent, before deleting comments, or twitter feeds. The fact of the matter is you guys get huge $$$ in publishing contracts, which the base only happily buys up. You all pull in healthy honorariums from your speaking engagements, and score immeasurable points from the TGC mutual admiration society. Can you give us any concrete examples of how TGC is actually advancing church ministry on the ground?
The fact of the matter is that TGC wouldn’t be viewed with as much suspicion if it were simply an aggregate of content (e.g sermons, articles, blog posts) from the broadly Reformed world. However, TGC has taken upon itself the presumptuous role of promoting what they view as “reformed” and “orthodox” (e.g. the sanctification debates with Tullian), when you have not gone all the way to make yourselves into an actual denomination with meaningful church courts.
At the end of the day, TGC seems to want to have it’s cake and eat it too. None of the ecclesiastical responsibilities to determine what is actually in/or out of bounds and why, with all of the clout to say who does and does not have influence in the conservative evangelical world.
BTW – I sincerely doubt that A) my comments will actually be heard and actually responded to, and B) that any response will candidly outline TGC’s actual position.
Perhaps there are other comments that have gone unapproved?
We just don't understand the loyalty this crowd has toward C.J. Mahaney. Remember the statements by Carson, Keller and DeYoung and Dever, Duncan, and Mohler a few years ago staunchly defending him? It really makes us wonder – what pull does C.J. Mahaney have over them, especially since he is no longer serving as a 'Council Member'? Why are they so concerned about rehabilitating his image? Is there something we don't know???
Lydia's Corner: Genesis 16:1-18:15 Matthew 6:1-24 Psalm 7:1-17 Proverbs 2:1-5
Of more concern to me is the fact that the authors of the article fail to give the proper context of the Cambridge Puritans and the “Prophesying Conferences” in order to validate their own interpretation and conclusions. For a start such conferences had begun elsewhere and, secondly, their purpose, was for different reasons in different circumstances. To get a proper idea of how things were, readers should consult “Godly Conversation:Rediscovering the Puritan Practice of Conference” by Joanne J. Jung and “The Worship of the English Puritans” by Horton Davies.
One possible explanation for DeYoung is that he agrees with Mahaney. One thing is for sure, he’s young and if he wants to advance in the ranks of the Gospel Glitterati, then he needs to pay his dues regardless of the cost to his integrity and credibility. He will be “deleted” from the Club as fast as a negative comment if he shows any dissent at all.
Without his connection to the Gospel Glitterati, who would have ever heard of DeYoung? The primary function of all of the Gospel Glitterati is not to promote the Gospel, but to conflate the Gospel with their goals, thereby drawing in others who are concerned about promoting the true Gospel of Christ. Tgc “partners” with Crossway. Uh huh, no possible conflict of interest there.
The statements from TgC and T4g regarding Mahaney told anyone all they need to know about these men. Those two statements were so jaw-droppingly brazen and arrogant that no one can escape the implications of men signing such documents and other men either defending the statements or remaining silent when they were issued.
I doubt if any of them will ever repent of those statements or anything else. They are the Gospel Anointed. They cannot be wrong, and they must be obeyed because they stand in the place of God.
@ Gram3:
Well stated.
You raise good points about the insular and authoritative nature of the groups, Deb. One thing that jumped out to me from your post is that TGC would not have to hold “women’s conferences” if they just opened up the regular conferences to men and women alike to lead and participate in. Their patriarchal nature won’t let them pursue this so they hold conferences aimed at women in an effort to show that women aren’t excluded from the TGC’s ministry. Of course they aren’t, as long as the women know their place.
Sheesh.
Tim wrote:
The conferences push the idea of “True Womanhood” or “Biblical Womanhood.” Which leaves me wondering what I am since I don’t fit their definitions. Funny how I used to be a real woman…I wonder what happened?
So, to which of the local churches represented in TGC is the one will provide the authority and leadership for the parachurch group known as TGC? Isn’t that one of their rules for the rest of us?
Tim wrote:
But, but but…John Piper will be concerned that their femaleness will be forced upon him causing him to sin.
The answer to your question in your title . . . .
Of course they are!
In 2005 Peter Adam wrote the following piece and there are similarities between it and De Young’s. I don’t think the latter is trying to rehabilitate C J Mahaney, but rather trying to ignore him. The main thrust of the article is to justify the existence of parachurch organisations and to promote their spread and sphere of influence. In so doing they are usurping both the authority, composition and nature of the church.
Anyway, here is the article.
http://www.theologian.org.uk/churchhistory/achurchhalflyreformed.html
Tim wrote:
I’ve often wondered what they would do if a group of women just showed up for those conferences aimed at men. Kinda like the Freedom Riders just did their thing to make a statement.
@ elizabetta carerra:
Yeah, but what I can’t figure out is why. It looks like being associated with him would not be a good career move for anybody.
Nancy wrote:
I am going to be cryptic in my response. Remember how CJ Mahaney gave @$200,000 to SBTS? Well, has anyone ever wondered if Mahaney ever gave to anyone else?
dee wrote:
Hmmm. And if someone has money to give away he may have money to lend or be holding paper from prior loans….Not suggesting that is the case of course, just thinking about the topic.
The goal of providing a place where theologically like-minded people to go for resources is a laudable one. But what’s happened with TGC is that ‘like-minded’ has become very narrow-minded, open only to those who agree on every item on an ever-increasing checklist. If you disagree on any one of these items you are anathema. And so they have constructed this insular TGC never-never land where seldom is heard a discouraging word.
Anyone whose ever spent a minute reading about theological issues knows that, from the very beginning these have been contentious issues that were discussed openly, with individuals on either side having to defend their positions and answer their critics. Such is not the case with TGC. They refuse to even hear other views much less discuss them.
As for ole’ Ceej, I too am baffled by the efforts of TGC, among others, to foist this unrepentant sinner back on the public, knowing that he was head of an organization involved in the most despicable acts of covering up child abuse. Apparently TGC doesn’t care at all what you do as long as what you say is along the TGC company line. TGC obviously has no concept of shame or guilt – but, what the hey, we’re all depraved anyway, aren’t we?
BTW: Anyone know how Old Sinner CJ’s ‘church plant’ is doing? (Poorly I hope)
Gram3 wrote:
Let’s let Helen Reddy speak to this, Gram3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUBnxqEVKlk
I saw her sing this live at a concert back in the 70s. I know, my uber-coolness shines through once again.
@ dee:
Then Mohler will write an essay about how he’s been predicting this would happen for years. “ Evangelical feminism strikes again.”
Posted a comment once and it was deleted. Did it a second time and they seem to be leaving it up :
Victorious wrote:
I’m sure they already do – to make the cups of tea for the thirsty men. I think instead they need a blanket ‘withdrawal of all services’ by women. Don’t get on the bus – it’s time to walk wimmenz !
Haitch wrote:
….palm slapping head! Silly me, I should have known that! And probably the clean-up committee as well.
dee wrote:
Only if they’re MUSCULAR Women.
(hands all a-flutter….)
Haitch wrote:
One word: LYSISTRATA.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
Oh, my, well yes then….That is just so….What I mean is the visual picture there…. Not to say that…I am just searching for a word. Weird? Good enough I guess.
On Tuesday of this week, the New York Times ran an article on its front page, above the fold, about the Mormon Church finally admitting publicly that Joseph Smith had practiced polygamy back in the 1830s-1840s. The actual essay had been out for a few weeks (but not exactly easy to find on the Mormon church’s website) and I was rather surprised it went viral.
However, while the essay admits that one of Smith’s wives (Helen Mar Kimball) was “a few months younger than 15,” (which in my book means *14 years old*) at no point does the essay condemn Smith for marrying two fourteen year olds, 10 women under the age of 20 (when he was in his late 30s), several women who were already married (including one, Zina D. Huntington, who was seven months’ pregnant with her husband’s child), or polygamy in general. No sorry, no oops, no, this was wrong and we’d never do it now. Just silence.
But at least the Mormon church finally fessed up to Smith’s practice of polygamy, even if it did take 170 years. TGC and the rest of the three-lettered aliases for the various Neo-Cals out there have not even gotten to the point of admitting that C.J. Mahaney was involved in covering up child sexual abuse. These groups and their leaders haven’t done a thing about it, like dropping him from their programs and getting rid of his books. Nope, they’re still celebrating this guy.
Will we have to wait 170 years before the TGC and its ilk finally confess that C.J. Mahaney covered up child sexual abuse? Inquiring minds want to know.
Brian wrote:
That is, perhaps, the best analogy I have heard in a really long time.
@ Tim:
Ha! That song probably makes Piper either hysterical or melts his masculinity into a little puddle…
Corbin Martinez wrote:
And it will be NOTHING LESS THAN THE END OF THE FAMILY AS WE KNOW IT!
mirele wrote:
My guess is it will happen about the same time as the polar vortex reaches hell.
Gram3 wrote:
UNLESS, we get back to sola scriptura, church discipline, Biblical gender roles and reading obscure puritan pastors from the 17th and 18th centuries.
Corbin Martinez wrote:
🙂
@ Jenn Grover:
I agree.
In Albuquerque, Ryan meets to, among other things, “help mitigate church-hopping and enable pastors to communicate about congregants floating between churches and/or leaving poorly.”
As if we’re 6 yr-olds losing our way, or 14 yr-olds kicking up dust, in desperate need of a bunch of Big Daddies to keep their collective eyes on us, forcing us back into their strait (& narrow) jacket.
They further state, “pastors must be in ‘hearty agreement’ with…Foundation Documents…on specifics such as…complementarianism…” And follow that with “also…there will be diversity in other areas like eschatology…sacraments…”
So keeping the wimminz down is more central to their gospeliness than approaches to the sacraments.
And oy! the section about celebrity. Celebrity means nothing. Additionally, it means a great deal. “We should also ‘honor’ such men, as we should those parts of the body which ‘lack honor”.
Literally speaking, I would agree with that statement if it meant celebrities lack honor and it would be proper to give them some, out of kindness. But I think it means that celebrities, who already have money, fame, fans, and books, should also be given honor-on-top, the same kind and amount given to the unbeautiful parts of the Body but “double honor” cuz that’s what scripshur sez.
Bah.
Corbin Martinez wrote:
Wow, when did Sola Scriptura come back into vogue in Gospel Glitterati circles? I thought it’s supposed to be Sola Scriptura only as interpreted and exposited by Gospel Glitterati Authorities. Because the Holy Spirit needs their help.
mirele wrote:
Practicing polygamy or pediaphilia?
Gram3 wrote:
We sheep are too busy baaaahing and eating reprobate grass to see the clear teachings of scripture. We need these shepherds to keep us safe.
Tim wrote:
Loved this song with it came out and women all over were singing it with pride. Thanks for the trip down memory lane, Tim!
Patrice wrote:
That’s because it is critical to the proper display of the gospel for women to demonstrate their subjection to men so that people who don’t know Christ will realize that the Son is in subjection to the Father from all eternity. Because if people who don’t know Christ don’t know that the Gospel is that God loves you and has a wonderful hierarchical plan for your life. Women and men alike are co-heirs with Christ…just kidding. The Bible plainly and clearly says that only men are full heirs of Christ.
So it is a gospel imperative, indeed a gospel ESSENTIAL that women demonstrate their submissiveness which images Christ’s submissiveness. Men, on the other hand, image Christ by ruling just like Christ is a ruler. Is that perfectly clear?
People all over the second and third world don’t know Christ because the Christian women in the West are not properly imaging Christ by being submissive enough. They have capitulated to culture and become bossy usurping feminists who hate God’s beautiful plan.
And the men in the West are not properly imaging Christ because they are too lady-partified and are disappointing John Piper and Wayne Grudem greatly. Mark Driscoll is positively mortified by all of the wimpy men who show respect and even deference to their wives! If only women and men would make Piper and Grudem and Owen (not John) happy, then the whole world would come running to Christ because men and women all over the world are desperately hungering for the Bread of Authority and thirsting for the Rivers of Ruling Authority.
Patrice wrote:
OK, you act as if these men *want* to be celebrities. They have had it thrust upon them. Do you really think David Platt, for one example, wanted anyone to know how radical he is for Christ? They are jealous only for the Fame Of Jesus’ name. They want to spread the Fame of Jesus’ name. They are only famous because if they weren’t famous, then no one would know about the Fame of Jesus’ name.
Hope that helps.
Bridget wrote:
Polygamy, polyandry (since he married the wives of several men), pedophilia (for the 14 YO girls) and ephebophilia (for the 15-19 year olds). But not Teh Ghey, that would be just awful.
Gram3 wrote:
LOL
I read Pastor Phillips article concerning Pastor Piper’s “endorsement” of Mark Driscoll. It seems one of things he believes that affected Piper’s discernment was the fact that he is supportive of “Charismatics”. The same was said concerning his concerns of what caused some of the issues with SGM and CJ. No where does he mention that their reformed circles are somewhat impervious to criticism to a theological “brother”. I found that a bit frustrating though the article was quite well written and researched.
Gram3 wrote:
Except that I think they are, don’t you know. I think that people are in fact and actually drawn to authority. I think I see this again and again. From ancient Israel who wanted a king through one commenter on here who said that the thing about his choice of religious denomination hinged on authority, to another commenter who quotes saints and ancient church councils as authority, to the fact that people take up with elder rule and complementarianism. Then there was Germany in the mid last century and of course the authority of central planning under communism. One of he reasons that people hold on to certain understandings of scripture and will not listen to anything else is that they have narrowed down their understanding of authority to scripture only, actually a certain understanding of scripture, and if that crumbles then their source of authority is gone. In fact, I think I hear a constant drum beat of desire for authority as one of the things that draw people in certain directions.
The sad thing is that to satisfy this need/desire/temptation they sometimes get caught up into systems of thinking and acting that can be damaging or even destructive. I think I read somewhere that people are like sheep without a shepherd???
Nancy wrote:
I think this plays into our need to worship something, whether a person,law,system, etc. Obedience is a part of worship, in a way, so maybe it’s human nature to want authoritarianism in some form. Like you said, history certainly seems to say so.
I know I’m kind of stating the obvious, but what you said made me think about it with a clearer perspective. I guess idolatry masquerades as something Godly more often than I thought.
Gram3 wrote:
I almost spilled my coffee. You should put warnings on top your postings! 🙂
Probably.
Corbin Martinez wrote:
That sounds right. I also think we are afraid because humanity has its inescapable fragilities and we are aware of this. And I think that humans do not thrive well in chaos (think certain political ideas of how to seize control) and we will grab at whatever to stabilize things. And then we do not seem to be bright enough. We are smart enough to know that we have problems but not smart enough to necessarily know how to solve them, and we tend to think that maybe somebody else (the authorities) will know how.
JeffT wrote:
Jeff, It is rather hard to discern if Mahaneyism is prospering in Louisville, KY from my location in Dubai. These days they have what I would describe as almost a cultic “bunker-like” mentality. In the past they posted photos on twitter of both their weekly church bulletin and a photo of the church assembly. The sermon was available as both an audio or video file. They had several videos showing the place as alive, vibrant and growing. Included was their initial membership Sunday where 90 people were brought in as charter members. Of course the majority of those 90 were either Mahaney family members or those who had fled CLC with the Mahaney clan.
Since around the start of 2014 the Mahaneyites have ceased displaying photos of the church bulletin and the photo of the people in their church service on their twitter account. They also ceased making the video of the sermon available on-line, it is only available in audio format now. One could infer this is because Mahaney doesn’t want the outside world to see the dwindling numbers; or maybe with only 5 full-time pastors on the staff for a church of 90, they just don’t have the time to keep social medial updated. Knowing Mahaney’s narcissistic tendencies, I am confident that if his church was experiencing growth they would be letting the world know about it.
For further evidence on the lack of growth one can point to the places the Mahaneyites have used for their assemblies. They started meeting at Christian Academy, a private school, on September 30, 2012 announcing that, “God has blessed us with a fantastic facility.” Perhaps they were a bit premature to credit that facility to God’s blessing. It turns out some parents of the children attending Christian Academy knew of the sexual abuse scandal swirling around Mahaney and they pressured the school to give the Mahaneyites the boot. With their usual spin the Mahaney propaganda machine churned out a new announcement, saying not a word about why they were leaving the facility God blessed them with, only stating that “we are excited to announce that beginning Sunday, January 6th, Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville will be meeting at Louisville Marriott East.” Their assemblies initially were in the Bluegrass Ballroom, located on the 2nd floor of the Marriott. This room could be divided into 4 smaller sections. I believe initially they rented 3 of the section which gave them a configuration allowing seating for 270 people. From viewing the sermons and photos on Twitter it became apparent that soon after they moved to the Marriott they downsized their room. I believe they went from renting 3/4 of the Bluegrass Ballroom to renting 1/2 of it. This would reduce their seating capacity from 270 to 140. Then on June 29, 2014 they announced “FYI, we’re downstairs today. Can’t wait to worship together!” I believe they are now meeting in one section of the Grand Ballroom, probably in another attempt to cut costs. The upstairs room seated 140, the downstairs room is configured to seat the same amount, but the upstairs room was 1,996 square feet while the downstairs room is only 1,298 square feet. I assume they got a price break.
Their new members classes are held at the church office, a suite rented in a business park. Several classes have been held in the home of Bob Kauflin. Kauflin’s estate rivals that of Steven Furtick’s, so he has ample room to host a class.
All told, I would say the information points to a rather small assembly of people. Some firsthand accounts of individuals who have been to the church confirm that fact. Last year the Pastors College helped inflate the attendance, but I don’t think the Pastors College is operating this year. I could be wrong about that. If anyone has information to the contrary I would appreciate hearing about it.
Gram3 wrote:
Maybe also their middle names are Jesus (Hay-soos’). That’s why fame is their inevitable burden.
Moreover, it explains why they are so cozy with God; even though eternally subordinate, yet also carrying his very words. Which is additionally why their doctrines on maleness are central. God ain’t no lady.
So mamas don’t let your babies grow up to be named Jesus.
@ Patrice:
Just saw your earlier comment, Gram3. Repeated parts. 😮
Nancy wrote:
Dearest Nancy, You raise a good point. However, with everything else that is happening in our world, maybe we all should just let this implode. Which begs the question. . . . what am I doing spending my time commenting???? Have a wonderful weekend!
__
Hero Worship: Defying description with ‘religious’ horror without a ‘category’?
hmmm…
These neo-cal religion boyz ‘bet’ their ‘wad’ on da Ceege and he took um & everybuddy else, it would seem, all for a ride.
Wartburg, blow your horn!
Bribery, blackmail, possibly deception, perhaps worse?
Da Cege: “Nothing up ma sleeve…”
PRESTO
poof.
(Some forty SGM churches just simply evaporate)
Whops!
(then they change da
denominational name…)
Maybe someone will come forward with the answer.
SKreeeeeeeeeeetch !
—> absolutely no one is gonna forget dat three year old dat was forced ta ‘forgive’ her sexual predator, face ta face, on da SGM churches’ nickel, in da SGM churches’ offices, on da Ceege’s watch…
but they can $ure ta ta ta try…
(sadface)
Sopy
__
Comic relief: Pink Floyd – “Another Brick In Da Wall?”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs35t2xFqdU
;~)
—
@ TW:
Awesome analysis, all the way from Dubai!! You’ll know they have a problem when they meet in room 205 on a guest floor.
And the fanboy pastors like Piper jump at the opportunity to support him. I have always wondered if SGM gave money to other groups like they did to SBTS. Since CJ did not tell many members of SGM of the large donation to SBTS, we certainly could wonder if he did it for others.
Nancy wrote:
You have a point there. I think that the basic human motivating emotion is fear, and uncertainty is a part of that. I don’t think that people want a ruler because they want to be ruled so much as they want someone else to take care of things and protect them. When people think they are able to overthrow an oppressive ruler at least some of them try to do that.
However, people want a good king, but I’m having trouble thinking of one who remained good throughout his reign. Maybe David, though he was a warrior king. The only good King who is trustworthy and who has taken care of things and protects us is Jesus.
I do believe that much of the appeal to Westerners of authoritarian religions is a relief from the social chaos many are experiencing or have experienced. Also they want a guarantee that their family life will be peaceful and enjoyable and their children will become believers.
The Gospel enables us to grow to maturity and gives us an identity in the Good King who has saved us. He gives us tremendous freedom and the motivating emotion of a believer should be love because God is love and we are to love him and love one another.
That’s why I say these guys, even *if* their intentions are good, are selling a false gospel which is a placebo and not the cure that is available if people trust in Christ and walk in the power of the Holy Spirit. They and their secular counterparts offer man-made systems of government and philosophies which promise freedom and security in the wider social sphere and in the home. They Gospel Glitterati believe in a coercive God, and that’s why their system is fundamentally coercive, despite their disclaimers.
@ TW:
Thanks TW. Hopefully that means there’s at least a modicum of real discernment going on.
TW wrote:
It may be too much to believe that churches everywhere are taking child and sexual abuse seriously because it’s something we absolutely must do if one it to be at all considered a Christian. But if they can’t see this in their hearts, at least these ‘Christian’ leaders may be savvy enough to see that their gravy train of Giving Units is at risk for covering this abuse of, which is probably the best one can hope for from most of the celebrity preacher cabal.
Gram3 wrote:
I understand this is also one of the appeals of Strict Islam among cultures which have never been Islamic. Some years ago, there was a news article on British women who after growing up in an ultra-permissive culture and social chaos were converting to Strict Islam — Saudi or Talibani-strict. Because after the chaos of their lives and surrounding culture, it was a relief to exchange this for an Islam where EVERYTHING was Predestined, EVERYTHING you do is laid out in the Koran and Hadiths, where you are told what to do and think. After the chaos of their pasts, it was a relief.
Gram3 wrote:
They are being like their God.
POWER and CONTROL and nothing else.
Nancy wrote:
Hence the desire for spiritual oversight; we need someone appointed by God to work out our salvation for us.
Here’s an interesting exercise: if there was no foul, disgusting, perverted depravity being covered up by SGM, how would we feel about Mahaney? I know for me, my respect for Mahaney, Mohler, and Dever was forever dissolved at T4G 2010. The mutual admiration society – which would be called pathological ass-kissing by a less civilized man – that occurred that day told me everything I needed to know about the clique. No fruit of the Spirit. All the works of the flesh. Very sad, and sad that many people are willing to overlook this for the sake of their religion.
Corbin Martinez wrote:
I would be happy to provide such a service for a small love offering.
Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:
Great comment.
dee wrote:
We might be writing about you on a blog some day then . . . . . . ? 😉
dee wrote:
Thanks, but I’m already a member of a local church with proper church court and elder headship. I’m thankful for my pastoral covering. (Sarcasm off)
Over the last several days I’ve heard and read a number of news reports concerning rape allegations against comedian Bill Cosby. I have no idea if these allegations are true, and it would sadden me greatly if they are. I’ve always thought highly of him. Nonetheless, they must be investigated.
A thought came to my mind this morning. Why is the media paying more attention to the allegations against Bill Cosby than the church is paying to the sex abuse coverup and spiritual abuse allegations against C.J. Mahaney? Kevin DeYoung’s and Ryan Kelly’s puff piece at TGC simply doesn’t compute.
Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:
Sounds like you were there. I'd love to hear more about what happened.
Here’s my suggestion on how the Gospel Coalition can rehabilitate Mahaney’s image:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im_cwlWqOd4
Widespread sex abuse in USA swimming.
http://www.newser.com/story/198559/widespread-sex-abuse-haunts-usa-swimming.html
JeffT wrote:
♪ Oh, we are the Buddy Bears, we always get along.
Each day we do a little dance and sing a little song.
If you ever disagree, it means that you are wrong.
Oh we are the Buddy Bears, WE ALWAYS GET ALONG! ♪
— courtesy of “Garfield and Friends”
“…when a group says that there are apostles succeeding the apostles Jesus Christ Himself chose …this false notion leads to carnal leadership, authoritarianism, schism, and often cults.” ~ C. Matthew Recker
@ Muff Potter:
Whenever I see the video you shared, I immediately think of this one…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAmzaAtvhvw
Wonder if there are videos out there lauding Piper, Carson, Mohler, and Dever?
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Calling himself an ‘apostle’, – an apostle chosen by Jesus Christ Himself, for most likely his entire pastorial career, he has believed and lived a lie.
huh?
what does that say for his ministry?
(Very scary.)
🙁
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@ singleman:
A similar thing has been happening recently in the UK, with rape allegations against several prominent DJ’s and one or two other well-known entertainers. Some of these allegations were investigated and dismissed as unfounded; some went to trial but the man was acquitted; some went to trial and the man was convicted and imprisoned. The most notorious cases involved Jimmy Savile. They only surfaced after Savile died and, thus, he will never face a criminal trial. But very well-structured investigations have been conducted, the evidence-based consensus is that he was guilty and public sympathy is overwhelmingly with his victims.
@ Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist:
No substance. That’s how I would feel about him. My daughter first heard him in college when her boyfriend was so excited that Mahaney was speaking at church. Even after his awful sermon, her BF was still enamered with Mahaney, his lifelong pastor. My daughter had gone with an open mind, but she called after church and was quite disturbed about how he, his family and the parishioners seemed to be hypnotized into thinking how awesome this dude was because she just saw nothing in the sermon. I listened to it too. It was his infamous Doubt sermon.
Before I knew who he was, I stumbled on this video. I thought they were making fun of someone they didn’t like. Later I realized they were praising Wayne Grudem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAmzaAtvhvw
Patti wrote:
They are so impressed with “his intellectual writing style” yet I doubt whether they have enough knowledge or experience to recognize the difference between intellectual puffery and rigorous thinking. Thye say he helps them recognize heresies, but these young fangirls and fanboys don’t know enough of what is actually in the Bible to recognize that he just makes up heresies like the Eternal Subordination of the Son or the eternal supremacy of males and that he justifies it with made up logic and made up additions to Scripture. It is very sad to see such idolatry of mere humans (and Grudem is just one of the idols.)
@ Deb:
Funny Deb! I see it simply as a spoof in the style of Mel Brooks. One can make one’s own application as to whether it’s a praise of or a disapproval of Grudem’s theology.
Nick Bulbeck wrote:
Today, someone passed me an article from the Daily Mirror regarding accusations that MPs and other officials were involved in child sexual abuse in the UK in the 1970s and 1980s. Of course, it was very carefully written to avoid the traps of the UK libel laws (as in “nobody was named”.” I thought the Daily Mirror was lower on the tabloid scale than the Daily Mail (news not very useful, sometimes has some very nice pictures and we’re not talking Page 3 here).
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Da Ceege: “And, what have we to do with thee, Deebs, daughters of the TWW blog? Art thou come to hither to ‘torment’ us before the time?”
🙂
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@ Patti:
Yes, they were definitely idolizing Grudem.
According to Brent Detwiler, none of the 6 guys who wrote the statements supporting Mahaney have read the Second Amended Complaint. Three of them wrote that Mahaney is never mentioned as having knowledge of the events, though he was so mentioned several times (four, I think).
I guess it’s easier to defend him when you don’t even bother to read the court case and get all your talking points from Ceej. Also, I have little doubt that they are simply afraid to read it – not only because of the horror of its contents, but because it would then be much harder to believe that it didn’t happen, and that, in any case, C.J. was not involved. Despicable.
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“Despicable Me(s)?”
“I guess it’s easier to defend him when you don’t even bother to read the court case and get all your talking points from Ceej. ” ~ JeffB
hmmm…
As our illustrious friend Hug would say in so many words, that to examine the truth would jeopardize their position within the pecking order, and risk having their ‘sins’ exposed, and their fiefdoms torn from them.
C.J. Mahaney has apparently replaced Jesus Christ as ‘top banana’.
Let none call it idolatry?
(grin)
hahahahahaha
Sopy
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Comic relief: Best of da proverbial Myhiney minions…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAKCfTAHJkE
🙂
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After years of living the Cross Centered Life, you’d think The Mahaney’s would have demonstrated humility and selflessness rather than a deep-seated determination to protect themselves and their self-interests. It seems they cannot escape or buy their way out of the scandal they perpetuated anymore than they can find the grace of God to truly die to themselves. And that, in my view, is punishment indeed.
Or that “Adolph Hitler was Chancellor of Germany until his death in 1945.” Jenn Grover wrote:
Deb wrote:
I couldn’t even watch it all the way through, I was rolling my eyes too hard.
Wow.
Watch the video about correcting via email.
Truly astonishing…..The Great CJ wants to correct and be corrected…..IN PERSON!!!!
Now that I have had my laugh for the day…..
Houston wrote:
I think they don’t want a paper trail. It’s much easier to frame the narrative about dissenters if you insist on only discussing issues in private meetings with hand-picked witnesses who help you turn the table on the dissenter. Pew-peon’s word against MegaPastor usually doesn’t favor pew-peon’s perspective on events and issues.
Gram3 wrote:
Russian/Soviet Bureaucratic tradition — 1000% Plausible Deniability. If there’s no paper trail and no witnesses, It Never Happened And You Can’t Prove It Ever Did.
Is there any documentation of that horrible Mahaney anecdote that I think came from SGM Survivors? The one where he chuckled about demanding sex from his pregnant wife while she was suffering from morning sickness?
@ Joan:
I’m sure Eagle can find it for you…