"You can't even bring your despicable self to admit your crime. So, you hide behind your phony self-diagnosis of amnesia. Mr. Morales, you are one pathetic human being."
Judge Terrance McGann
Yesterday Nate Morales, a former Covenant Life Church leader who was found guilty of two counts of sexual offense in the second degree and three counts of sexual abuse of a minor back in May, was sentenced to 40 years in prison. Here is a news report that aired in the D.C. area.
WJLA, which broadcast the above report, published an accompanying article for internet readers. It begins as follows:
A Montgomery County Circuit Court judge chastised a former youth group leader Thursday, calling him a "cowardly pervert" and "pathetic human being."
Judge Terrance McGann sentenced Nathaniel Morales, 56, to 40 years in state prison for molesting at least four boys during the 1980s. The abuse occurred while Morales ministered at Covenant Life Church in Gaithersburg.
Then in his mid-20s, Morales led youth Bible studies, directed worship teams, and even attended sleepovers with the male teens he mentored. Morales' middle-of-the-night attacks went undetected for years, because he exhumed trustworthiness and charm.
Jeremy Cook, whom Morales victimized around 50 times during church-related sleepovers, spoke publicly in the wake of Morales' sentencing. He (Cook) was around fifteen years of age when these crimes began. Jeremy Cook, a husband and father of three, testified against Morales during the trial, and we are hailing him as a hero. Now that Cook can finally get on with his life, we would love to meet him since he currently lives in Raleigh. How providential!
An article in The Washington Post provides the following details about the sentencing:
Circuit Court Judge Terrence McGann took it all in. He sentenced Morales to 40 years, saying it would have been easier for the victims if Morales had broken their jaws, because those injuries could heal.
“The scars,” he said of the cases before him, “are just as deep as they were back in the ’80s and the ’90s.”
The judge was scathing in his opinion of Morales, including Morales’s earlier claim that he didn’t remember what happened.
“You can’t even bring your despicable self to admit your crime, so you hide behind your phony, self-diagnosis of amnesia,” McGann said. “Mr. Morales, you are one pathetic human being.”
The Post articles goes on to state:
Three of the victims attended Covenant Life when Morales was there. And the case, which police began investigating in 2009 after one of the victims came to them, has been difficult for church members. Many have wrestled with competing narratives of what church leaders knew 25 years ago.
Last year, as news of the case broke, leaders released a statement saying they weren’t aware of the abuse until many years after it occurred. But in May of this year, testimony at one of Morales’s trials revealed that church leaders were told about three of the victims in the early 1990s, but did not call the police.
Of course, the lead pastor at Covenant Life Church when these crimes occurred was C.J. Mahaney, who pastored the church for 27 years until he turned over the reins to Joshua Harris in 2004. Grant Layman, Mahaney's brother-in-law, testified under oath during the trial that he knew about Morales but did not notify the police.
Covenant Life Church leaders issued this statement after the sentencing:
“As a church we are deeply saddened that children have been abused and victimized in the grievous ways described in the Morales trial. We believe those who testified did so with courage, and we continue to pray for the Lord’s mercy, comfort and healing grace in their lives and those of all victims. We are grateful to see justice done in today’s sentencing.”
A Gazette article entitled Former Germantown youth leader gets 40 years in prison for sexually abusing boys provides more details regarding the sentencing of Morales, as stated below:
In the case of the three boys, Morales was convicted of three counts of sexual abuse of a minor and two counts of second-degree sexual offense. He was given 10 years in prison for each count, some of which is to be served concurrently.
In the case of the single boy, Morales was convicted of one count of sexual abuse of a minor and one count of third-degree sexual offense; he was given two 10-year sentences, to be served consecutively with the other sentences for a total, effective sentence of 40 years.
Morales will be eligible for parole after serving half that time, Michalski said.
Drew said he planned to appeal the sentence.
One of Morales’s victims, Jeremy Cook, spoke with reporters at a news conference with prosecutors after the hearing and said the sentence was fair. “It’s a significant period of time that he has to serve, and hopefully it will keep him from hurting anyone else again,” he said.
During the hearing, Cook, a former Gaithersburg resident, told the court that he would have to deal with abuse until the day that he died. “It is a life sentence,” Cook said.
Our hearts break for these victims who have entered adulthood scarred because of crimes perpetrated against them by a pedophile. And shame on any CLC leaders who knew about Morales but failed to protect the children.
We dedicate this song not only to those hurt by Nate Morales but to all victims of pedophilia. May Almighty God restore the years the locusts have eaten. Please know that we are praying for you.
Lydia's Corner: Habakkuk 1:1-3:19 Revelation 9:1-21 Psalm 137:1-9 Proverbs 30:10
__
—> Is this Morales conviction just the ‘tip’ of the PDI/SGM/SGC ‘churchberg’?
—
Although I am glad that Mr. Morales was sentenced and it was significant…..there I still a deep sadness. The scars do remain. As Jeremy stated, this a life sentence. What was taken can no be restored. And what was taken is so far beyond the physical. Innocence gone. Trust shattered – perhaps never rebuilt. So many other normal benchmarks of growing up denied….the last couple of days have been particularly hard. I can’t speak for other survivors, but for me, one of my biggest desires was just to be normal. But I am beginning to accept that that will never be. Dee & Deb….thank you for all you do and for caring where so many don’t.
I believe that the leaders of that church at the time of the coverup should be criminally charged with conspiracy to aid and abet the crime of the sexual abuse of children. And the civil suit should be restored.
Back in my semi-colorful working past I did this quasi internship. My boss was divorced, never dated and did a lot of work with little boys. [NOTE: he’s long deceased, died pretty young.] He regularly would have a little boy living with him out on his rural property. In retrospect, there were some red-flags but he certainly wasn’t going around telling us he was abusing little boys; but he kinda fit the picture. He did tell us to not mention to the bigwigs that he had anybody living with him and they seemed to come and go. Whatever his pre-dilection, he was always appropriate with the individuals he over-saw on the job.
So, a couple of us were suspicious but nothing was ever proved, didn’t know about him ever being accused of anything in my time working with him and to this day I don’t know for sure that he was using/abusing the little boys he worked with.
*
In his position, he had immense power over my immediate future. Did I ever talk to anybody else (other than my fellow intern) about what MIGHT be going on? Nope? Was I tempted to call the police? Nope. I kept my head down and my mouth shut; there certainly wasn’t a whole lot of solid evidence.
*
What I don’t know is what I would have done if I had actually observed him inappropriately interacting with a little boy; but I never saw any of that.
*
I hope he didn’t abuse little boys but to this day, I don’t know and I don’t know what I would have done at this time and place in my life if I had observed it.
A brilliant, truly adult movie you might enjoy unless you like your world only black or white.
*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doubt_%282008_film%29
This has been hard to read this early on a Saturday morning. Hopefully, the other victims will also get justice before the courts. If not then when we all stand before the Justice Seat of God. (Most translate the Greek word to Judgement but it can also be translated Justice which I believe is a better translation.) I have to wait till then, but fortunately, God’s grace is sufficient till that day.
Also, I love that song, Hallelujah. Leonard Cohen sings it with this ending.
I did my best, it wasn’t much
I couldn’t feel, so I tried to touch
I’ve told the truth, I didn’t come to fool you
And even though it all went wrong
I’ll stand before the Lord of Song
With nothing on my tongue but Hallelujah
I too want to stand before the Lord with nothing on my tongue but Hallelujah.
Wisdomchaser wrote:
Praying for you.
Nice to read in the statement published by CLC that they have finally repented and apologized for covering up the sexual abuse!
It was also nice to hear the The Go$pel Coalition and Together 4 the Go$pel have retracted their statements of support for C.J. Mahaney.
It was also nice to hear that C.J. Mahaney has finally done the right thing and resigned from his senior pastors position at his run-away church plant in Louisville.
Hello Wayne Grudem, remember this email?
“Dear Todd,
My name is John Paul Stepanian, and I am Dr. Grudem’s assistant as well as a student here at Phoenix Seminary. One of my jobs is to see to Dr. Grudem’s correspondence on his behalf.
Thank you for your inquiry regarding Dr. Grudem speaking at CJ’s church. Dr. Grudem has the challenging task of weighing many worthy and intriguing requests. His current research, teaching, speaking engagements and family commitments have filled his schedule, and unfortunately he will be unable to answer your questions directly. Please accept his regrets. Dr. Grudem has asked me to personally respond to these requests on his behalf.
Dr. Grudem is speaking at CJ’s church specifically so that he can signal support for CJ in the face of unjust accusations. No further communication on this subject will be responded to.
May God bless your continued work for His kingdom.
Sincerely,
John Paul Stepanian
MA to Dr. Grudem
Phoenix Seminary
On behalf of:
Wayne Grudem, Ph.D.
Research Professor of Theology and Biblical Studies
Phoenix Seminary”
Hello John Piper, remember this introduction at Mahaney’ church?
John Piper’s opening remarks at C.J. Mahaney’s church:
“Thank you C.J. I chose to be here. Noqbody forced me. He is a pretty persuasive guy but I really, really wanted to be here. And therefore when the opportunity arose I snatched it. And I’m thankful for it.
I wanted to be here because I am excited about what God is doing in this church plant. I’ve been following it from a distance. And I’m thrilled with what is in the offing here in the mix of this city. I’m excited to be here secondly because I love Sovereign Grace and what God is doing in it across the country and the world.
And most emotionally significant, I’m glad to be here because C.J. is right, he is my friend and he has meant a lot to me over the years both at the encouragement level of preaching and professional life – though nobody in the ministry is a professional – but even more at the personal family level of caring. So it is real easy for me to stand here and be with you. It is what I want to do.”
Hello Mark Dever, remember this intro at Mahaney’s church?
“What a joy this is. It’s a particular privilege to be here. Capitol Hill Baptist Church has prayed regularly for the Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville. I guess we’ve been praying for you longer than you’ve existed because you don’t have members yet. So you’re working on existing and we’re already praying for you! We want to encourage you in that, and that’s especially because we know a number of the brothers and sisters involved here; we’re thankful for you all, thankful for the ministry you’ve had in our church over the years. The Sovereign Grace Churches in general that I’ve had to do with have marked fruits of the Spirit, more marked than any other group of Christian churches I know of, and I am thankful for that.
And in fact your own pastor was the object of gossip yesterday at this event that I was at, the wedding of Al Mohler’s daughter. There were three Christian leaders standing there, I overheard them talking about C.J. and I stepped up and listened; and all three of them know him and all of them were bragging on him and his integrity in a number of ways, one of which is the way he’s begun in leading this church plant. So you all who are here in this church, and particularly if you’re visiting or you’re sort of new to Sovereign Grace, you have the privilege of having this man as your pastor that you don’t fully grasp; and that’s absolutely fine. Just thank God for him and enjoy the Word of God as he brings it from a life and a heart full of the gospel. Know that I am delighted to be here. It is a privilege to address you brothers and sisters.”
Observation by Brent Detwiler, published a few tears ago are spot-on:
“God knows how many children have been sexually abused by Nathaniel Morales since 1979 when one indictment says his first reported offence occurred. Morales will stand before God and give an account but so will C.J. Mahaney, Grant Layman, Robin Boisvert and anyone else who knew about his heinous crimes but did not report them to law enforcement. Once these men became knowledgeable, they were required by law to report these sex crimes.
It is incomprehensible that these pastors didn’t do everything in their power to make certain Morales was locked up so he couldn’t destroy any more young lives! He needed to be stopped. Instead they let him go and did not track his whereabouts. This enabled him to become a pastor at the Las Vegas Valley Christian Church in Nevada. Is anything more irresponsible? We are not talking about a wolf in sheep’s clothing, we are talking about the liklihood of a wolf in shepherd’s clothing!
Mahaney, Layman, et al. are guilty of criminal neglect if any minors were molested by Morales after these “shepherds” were made aware of his crimes. Jail time is appropriate. Furthermore, these men need to be held accountable by Covenant Life Church and Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville.
None of the victimized boys (now grown men) referenced in the December 13, 2012 indictments and police reports are Plaintiffs in the Second Amended Complaint. All of them could be awaiting a guilty verdict in a criminal court before suing for damages in a civil court. Sovereign Grace Ministries want everyone to think all is well since the May 17 dismissal of the lawsuit. Nothing could be further from the truth.
To the best of my knowledge, C.J. Mahaney and the pastors of Covenant Life Church have never notified law enforcement of suspected or actual child abuse since its inception in 1977 to the Second Amended Lawsuit in 2013. That is certainty true in the case of Plaintiff Grace Goe with help from Layman and it certainly true with Nate Morales. The Plaintiffs’ lawyers note, “Wholly apart from and without any help from Defendants, law enforcement years later investigated and indicted Morales for sexually abusing children.”
The investigation leading to Morales’ arrest on October 15, 2012 began on October 20, 2009, when Samuel Bates (a victim, not a pastor) contacted the Family Crimes Division with the Montgomery County Police Department, Maryland. It took Detectives three years to make their case “without any help from Defendants.” They finally got their man in spite of Mahaney, Layman, et al.”
Todd,
What you have shared in this series of comments is crucial to understanding the Neo-Cal movement. The revered leaders prop up one of their own while holding everyone else’s feet to the fire.
Not to be outdone, a local youth pastor was given 30 yrs for sex with underage females….one of the girls said they had sex 100 times….
http://www.kfdm.com/shared/news/top-stories/stories/kfdm_vid_11367.shtml
Deb wrote:
“These N Kings said one to another:
‘King unto King o’er the world is Brother’…”
And POWER consists of inflicting suffering among the Powerless.
I’m beginning to believe the Calvinista’s may be on to something. I mean, how totally depraved are so-called ‘ministers’ that they are willing to sacrifice children to sexual abuse in order to protect their own and their church’s reputation?
Call me skeptical,but I’m not buying the ‘apologies’ of those who kept silent while these children were being abused. They give all the indication of being dragged out of them for appearances sake only after prolonged attention to the issue by the the blogosphere. I will wait to see if the fruits of these so-called ‘Christians’ are good fruit or rotten. Apologies mean nothing without change in behavior as well.
Todd, thanks for re-posting those quotes of the Calvinista ‘luminaries’ – they ought to be included in the introduction to every one of their speaking engagements.
Thankful for the brave men who came forward to get this abused off the streets! Not impressed with the pastors who covered up abuse and had no compassion for victims.
@ JeffT:
We have heard C.J. Mahaney boast ad nauseam about how he had total control over what his wife and daughters would wear in public.
And yet we’re supposed to believe that this micromanager knew nothing about Morales?
Grant Layman testified UNDER OATH that he knew about a pedophile in their midst, but he withheld this crucial information from his brother-in-law C.J.???
I was born on a Tuesday, but it wasn’t last Tuesday…
Deb wrote:
HUMBLY, of course.
Ees Party Line, Comrades.
@ Todd Wilhelm:
Sorry for the silly question, but this is intended to be sarcastic, no? I read your comment and immediately started googling, but couldn’t find anything you referenced. CLC did release a short statement regarding the sentencing, but didn’t repent and certainly didn’t admit to any wrongdoing.
JeffT wrote:
Interesting point. I suppose if one were especially insecure/anxious/fearful about one’s own severe failings in the area of “works” (cf. James 2:14-26), one might be tempted to over-emphasize the idea of “grace” to the extent that once one is seen as “elect,” there is nothing one can do (cover up child molestation?) that would bring one’s spiritual status into question.
@ Deb:
The whole thing is ridiculous. For those of us here that need a quick refresher (myself included), what is the status with this situation? The criminal trial hit a wall due to a technicality, correct? But there is still a possibility for a civil case?
Praying for healing for the victims. Also praying for justice to be done so that the individuals who contributed to this tragedy will not be able to cause harm to anyone else.
Ironically, I have jury duty on Monday at the very courthouse pictured in the video. I was thinking that, if I was considered for a sex abuse case, I would have to be dismissed because I couldn’t be objective.
Arce wrote:
I’m with you on this Arce. How come it is that even with the Catholic sex scandals the civil proceedings always seem to grind to a halt in favor of the Church? Now we’re apparently seeing it happen with the Protestant scandals as well. Help me out here those of you who are legal beagles. Do their attorneys make motions in which they convince judges to halt proceedings? And if so, how do they successfully argue for dismissal with other than statute of limitations, or are the limits iron-clad in a sense that a judge must adhere to them regardless? Thanx.
Todd Wilhelm wrote:
Would you post a link to this? I don’t see it on CLC’s site. Admittedly I didn’t go through every page. This post still seems defiant:
http://www.covlife.org/blog/response_to_news_reports
In the written article put out by the TV station, there is a word misused; should be exuded (oozed out), not exhumed (dug up).
Hopefully this will be the first domino falling – though I’m not going to hold my breath. Those in power will do all they can to keep it. In their embrace of it, it is a vapor, formless and void; it is also a viper, poisoning them and those in their orbits. Lord, have mercy.
Elizabeth Esther’s blog is the chronicle of a life affected every day by the spiritual abuse she suffered, but also of the healing she is finding. It is luminous in its truth.
One big problem with the view of a lot (most?) of Evangelicals is that a life has to be either 100% Total Depravity or 100% Total Victory. Reality is much more like Dostoyevsky, where suffering drunks and prostitutes are revealed to be the holiest people. Not saying that abusers are holy, only that they are suffering, too – and that the future is open to goodness for those who have been abused, even carrying what they are carrying.
Everyone is bearing a great burden; some are able to be honest about it.
@ Janey:
I took Todd's comment as pure sarcasm, but he can clarify.
I am sitting here in a rare quiet moment and contemplating all of this. It has been difficult to watch the Nate Morales trial after having been in CLC and being acquainted with him years ago. But other than that, this subject hasn’t really hit home. Unfortunately, with sexual abuse being so prevalent, I guess it was just a matter of time.
Last Christmas, the buzz among my relatives was a book that one of my Mom’s sisters had published about her life. I read it in two days, and she disclosed that my grandfather sexually abused her when she was very young, and also severely neglected her and her siblings when left in charge of them when their mother was away. It was shocking, but not a far stretch to imagine, since my grandfather was an alcoholic and a gambling man. Suddenly things my mother had told me made sense – like how my grandfather was an accountant for the government when my grandparents married and then quit and became a farmer. Hmm… maybe he didn’t “quit”. Anyway, that was the first revelation. Then a few weeks ago I received a 5:30 a.m. text from a nephew I have not kept in good touch with. A two hour conversation ensued in which he revealed sexual abuse in his past. The abuser is no blood relation to my grandparent. However, things that came out in that conversation made me wonder if there hasn’t been further abuses in my family. (Note: my grandparents had 13 children and 52 grandchildren, so that is a lot of people and a lot of potential for abuse!)
One thing that hit me in talking to my nephew is how I probably missed opportunities to talk with him and try to at least let him know that I was there for him. I had at one point consciously withdrawn from much of his family because of their heavy drinking lifestyle which I couldn’t relate to. Looking back I”m sure there were some ways in which I could have maintained contact that wouldn’t have involved me being in difficult situations. It also had to do with distance and money, but I have realized that I tend to pull away when I’m not sure how to deal with people who are different than me or difficult to relate to. But maybe even a few words of comfort or acceptance could have gone a long way. I’m saying this as a reminder to myself as well as other people. You never know what’s going on in someone’s life and how you might be able to make a difference, even if just helping them to hang on another day.
@ Former CLC’er:
What a tragic situation. It certainly seems that sexual abuse is rampant. Unfortunately, it is under reported for a myriad of reasons.
Deb wrote:
Ah, thank you!
Todd:
Are you channeling someone? Maybe the “real” CLC leadership that has been held in the church basement against their will has escaped, or perhaps the “real” Piper or Grudem that were kidnapped and replaced by body doubles? Alien abduction maybe?
No, folks, we seem to be stuck with these until a movement of the breadth and power or the “conservative resurgence” in the SBC (Which seems to have been switched for the “calvinist” takeover).
I’ve got the pitchfork, if others will carry the torches and sickles, we can storm the mad doctor’s castle and get rid of this monster for good before it does any more damage.
(Organ music playing throughout, the above scene must be in black and white)
As long as these folks continue to cover each others back, they think themselves invulnerable. I am praying for a grand jury indictment naming all of the one who covered for this monster. Than see them run for the exits!
Judas “The Hammer” Maccabeus
?
Todd Wilhelm wrote:
Yes, my comment was 1 part sarcasm and 1 part wishful thinking! Sorry about the lack of clarity.
@Deb – thanks. I’m slowly realizing that it’s one of those things that I think will never effect me, and suddenly it’s right in my face. It just takes me awhile sometimes to put things together. I have so often stood in judgement of other people, particularly relatives. But I’m starting to think that I just don’t know what they’ve been through and praying to give grace to them.
Thank you for sharing this comment, Former CLC’er. Reading it made me realize I tend to do the same. I tend to withdraw from uncomfortable situations. But you’ve encouraged me in that I might be able to provide some much-needed comfort by staying involved.
I hope this comment prints out correctly as even though I selected the last 3-4 lines of yours, I got the entire comment and had to delete the rest.
Anyway, thank you for sharing that. It blessed me.
If one has a exteme view of God’s sovereignty does that contribute to being non-repentant? Can’t really wrap my head around why no admissions and why the Calvin cast of characters are soooo supportive in the face of such evidence.
Bunsen:
No, what contributes to their non repentance is their mutual support society. If one “goes down” it will be like the time i lifted the funny looking tile in my bathroom. I found rot and mold behind it. I therefor checked a few other tiles to see what was behind them. I found extensive rot.
Such is it with these guys. If rot is exposed behind one of them, than people will start looking behind the others. I think extensive rot will be found behind most of them.
I am a University of Maryland grad, class of 79. Time and place puts me right in the epicenter of that movement. I remember the “TAG”/Gathering of believers/PDI/Sovereign Grace (It’s various names) movement from it’s very beginnings. None of this surprises me in the least. Church is, after all “The happiest place on Earth” (C.J.)
As one of my “AA” friends says, denial is not just a river in Egypt.
Judas “The Hammer” Maccabeus
Bunsen Honeydew wrote:
dainca wrote:
And nobody can be permitted to be Real.
“For in the Devil’s theology, the most important thing is to Be Absolutely Right and to prove everyone else to Be Absolutely Wrong.”
— Thomas Merton, “Moral Theology of the Devil”
http://thegroundoffaith.net/issues/2008-10/Merton.htm
@ Todd Wilhelm:
No problem, Todd. I figured as much once I googled.
We need that sarcasm font! 🙂
I have such a hard time with stories like this one.
when I was reading what the judge said I had a hope in my heart that one day I will hear the Judge Eternal say similar things to non repentant child molesters, and also that one day when He is wiping all the tears from my eyes, He will look at me and say, I believed you, I saw it all, it doesn’t matter what everyone else did to try to deny it or paint you as a liar, it didn’t make me doubt you a bit, I have always loved you.
Bunsen Honeydew wrote:
Definitely it is not exclusive to Calvinism or a particular view of God’s sovereignty. I personally witness a great example of this in a church that is probably 1 point Cal.
It is, IMO, a matter of maintaining a system that is profitable in terms of money, fame, and influence. Their individual brands were somewhat merged, again IMO, so that the whole of their collective influence and marketability is greater than the sum of their individual influence and marketability. Better to share a really huge pie than the whole of a little pie. In order to keep the pie from slipping off the table, we have to all be polite and cooperate.
There may be more than a little nervousness while they wait and see how long the Jenga tower will stand with more and more pieces being removed–Driscoll, Mahaney, Gothard, Phillips (I have the feeling I’m forgetting someone.) The biggest danger, I think, is that people are seeing with clarity things that are undeniably wrong even by pagan standards. So at some point critical mass will be reached in the pews. Then the meltdown.
Judas Maccabeus wrote:
Sorry Judas, I just read your comment after I wrote mine. Sorry to repeat what you said!
JeffT wrote:
Amen!!
Todd Wilhelm wrote:
This is big news if true. Their website still lists him as their senior pastor (although one wonders why).
If Mahaney really loved the Church as Mahaney had talked about then Mahaney would have done what Todd jested about. Mahaney would have resigned from SGM and not lead the group to Louisville had Mahaney’s priority been the church. Apparently C.J.’s only priority is himself his name and his income coming in.
With regard to the Morales case, it is shocking that this abuse went on for so long at CLC and was never reported. It is just baffling that this could happen.
@ me:
It was definite sarcasm (see Todd's remarks left at 5:51 on 8/16).
I was doing an errand today and saw someone passing by that went to CLC when I was there. For some reason, I suddenly heard C.J.’s voice saying something like, “When we get to heaven, there will be a section just for people from Covenant Life Church.” Umm… do you still wish that, C.J.? Because you might not like what you hear from the various people IN that section. And by the way, where does it say that in the bible? Oh, the things we believed that came out of his mouth!
Oh look… the alleged child abuse that could not be sinfully ‘speculated’ about is no longer an allegation, but a proven legal fact. 40 years worth of vile offences occurred. Church Leaders please make an orderly line to now tell us what you think….
40 years worth judicially speaking, as a penalty.
@ Wisdomchaser:
Leonard Cohen is the song writer, a Jewish Montrealer. I love the song and just wanted to give credit where it is due. Cohen is the writer of that piece, not Bon Jovi or anyone else.
40 years is a ridiculous sentence for this sort of crime. Europe seems to have much more intelligent sentencing formulas. 40 years is maybe what a serial killer ought to receive.
Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:
True, that.
arak
So, ruining the lives of a nunmber young children should be treated more “intelligently.” I do not agree tht Europe has more “intelligent” sentencing if that is the case.
arak wrote:
Oh, that’s really intelligent. Take a serial killer and turn him back out on the public.
More intelligent sentences like giving probation to the man who stabbed Monica Seles for beating Stephanie Graf in tennis in Germany?
Former CLC’er wrote:
Did he really say that?! 😯
@formerly anonymous – yes, C.J. really said that. He said it several times, in fact. It truly is like a bad dream that comes back to you at crazy moments.
@Fomerly anonymous – to clarify, he didn’t mean that God would reserve a special section for us, but just that, since we’d all gone through life together, God would keep us together in heaven.
Former CLCer
OK-with whom do you want to spend your time? The SGM section (if there is one) or hanging with the rest of us who will be singing along with Johnny Cash. I expect that CS Lewis will do a bang up job on The Orange Blossom Special.
sam h wrote:
@Dee – of course you know my answer to that! Even when I was in CLC, I was kind of like “eww!” What can I say. I’m always drawn to the folks on the edge who are having fun.
Thankfully I didn’t listen when C.J. said most of our friends should be people in the church. Kind of squashes outreach. Creepy the things he said without us noticing anything wrong.
@ dee:
I took arak’s comment as sarcasm, I hope he does NOT clarify…sigh.
Nancy wrote:
Just what I was thinking. “Hey, let’s let him go & see whether or not he’s learned his lesson.”
And in my opinion, since serial killers & child molesters are equally evil sociopaths, they all need to be locked up for the rest of their natural lives. No paroles, no “time off for good behaviour”. (After all,it’s hard to molest children when there aren’t any children around).
Pingback: Talk About Total Depravity: Covering Up Sexual Abuse at Sovereign Grace Ministries | Beyond Opinion
Arce wrote:
If the civil suit isn’t restored though we can be confident in what God says he will do according to His word. God describes Himself as someone who is not a respecter of persons and does not show partiality(Rom 2:11). They are explained in 2 Peter 2:3- these so called “teachers” are described as people who in their greed exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them and their destruction has not been sleeping(NIV). They have proven themselves over and over as people who work purely for monetary reward which is the definition of a “hireling”. Ezekiel 34:2 in the NLV tells them a message from the sovereign Lord-What sorrows awaits you shepherds who feed yourself instead of your flocks? It is too late to cry for mercy when it is the
time of justice.