Is Nate Morales’ Victim James Roberts’ Press Release a Harbinger?

“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.” 
― Aldous Huxley link

http://www.publicdomainpictures.net/view-image.php?image=61451&picture=dark-clouds-hiding-sun

Dark Clouds Hiding the Sun

Since today is a holiday, I plan to make blueberry pies and have a cookout for my family. I have decided to save my "case study" of The Gospel™ Coalition's stunning fail in the handling of Tullian Tchvidjian until tomorrow. We do not usually post on Tuesdays but we feel that this topic is of great importance to the evangelical church as a whole. Winter is descending on the evangelical movement and TGC  produced a nor'easter that is threatening to bury any possible unity within the faith.

Since it is Memorial Day we want to direct our readers to a charity that is near and dear to our hearts. The Wounded Warrior Project is doing much good for our military heroes and their families. Please give it a look.

On Friday, TWW received a call from James Roberts. He lives in Hawaii now but says he misses the seasons. I think he was rubbing it in a bit. He asked if we would be willing to post his statement on his explanation as to why his portion of the Nate Morales criminal trial (originally expected to be held in the next week or so) is not going to occur "at this time." Please pay attention to that last phrase.  Also, we have highlighted particular portions of his statement that we found notable. However, we have not changed a word in his statement.

Please join us in praying for James. His bravery in reporting this abuse is commendable. 


James Roberts' Public/Media Statement
05/23/2014

There has seemed to be much confusion as to why my case in particular (MD vs Morales 123155C) was not tried. Let me be clear; it was not due to a sudden fallacy, or the merits of my case against Nathaniel Morales. Mr. Morales was indicted for “sex offence III” by the State of Maryland and my case remains active today.

I want to make it perfectly clear that I stand behind my statements with regard to both my criminal case against Morales, as well as my civil case.  Because both the criminal and civil cases are active, I need to be wise with my words so please accept this brief explanation.

The State Attorney’s office has explained to me that they will be following  'Judicial Prudence' with regard  to my case, and will await the outcome of the August sentencing (possible 120+ years) for the cases which Morales has already been convicted and found guilty of.  The prosecution has their reasons & strategy for this. It is ultimately their (the State of Maryland’s) decision when to proceed with trying the case.  

My case is also linked to other active and ongoing investigations that could see the courtroom in the future. I want to clearly state that I have every confidence in the justice system, particularly in ASA Amanda Michalski who tried the first two Morales cases. These men & women know what they're doing and though I cannot comment in further detail, I see the wisdom in them making this call.

As a side note, I would like to encourage other victims to continue coming forward. It is crucial to report your sex abuse, not only for you, but for the victims who may come after you. You just might save a life.  And please, please, please report your abuse to the police first, not your pastor. I can't even begin to describe how healing it's been just to report what happened to me!

Thank you all so much for your love, support, and prayers. Nate Morales will never be able to hurt another child ever again, and that has been my driving force in all of this.  Let's continue to pray for justice to be done in all of the other cases that will be coming.

Finally I would like to humbly ask that you respect the fact that I cannot comment further and understand that is why I have declined the many numerous media and interview requests.  Thank you for understanding that. God bless you all & I am confident that all of these evil deeds will be brought into the light for there is no longer a dark place for this evil to hide.  

Sincerely,
James Roberts


Brent Detweiler has an interesting analysis at his website in a post Important Statement From James Roberts Regarding Third Trial of Nathaniel Morales. Detweiler addresses a particular section of the Roberts statement which I, coincidentally highlighted before I went to Detweiler's site.

(Detweiler) Mr. Roberts has worked closely with the State.  He has reliable information.  Take note of these words.  

(Roberts) “My case is also linked to other active and ongoing investigations that could see the courtroom in the future. … Let’s continue to pray for justice to be done in all of the other cases that will be coming. … God bless you all & I am confident that all of these evil deeds will be brought into the light for there is no longer a dark place for this evil to hide. "

(Detweiler) I was greatly disappointed when I first heard the State was not going forward with the third trial regarding James Robert’s case.  Why?  Because more evidence of a conspiracy would have come out.  Let me briefly add, more evidence came out at the second trial concerning Tapia.  In that trial, like the first trial, Grant Layman was called to the stand and provided additional evidence of a conspiracy.  There are good reasons to believe Mr. Layman is now cooperating with law enforcement. 

Brent Detweiler goes on to review all of James Roberts' claims in the civil lawsuit against SGM. I have only included one of those claims. Please go to Detweiler's post in which he reviews all of Roberts' claims. Pay careful attention to the reason given by Roberts as to why he did not report this to the church/school at that time. It is disturbing.

*Trigger alert- graphic description of sexual abuse*

Plaintiff James Roberts 

James Roberts joined the lawsuit against Sovereign Grace Ministries and other Defendants in the Second Amended Complaint filed on May 14, 2013.  He alleges two abusers.  David Adams in Complaints 32-35, 44 and Nathaniel Morales in Complaints 36-39.  I deal with Morales in this post. 

Victim:  James Roberts
Complaint:  36
Location:  Covenant Life Church (Magruder High School) – Dressing Room
Timeframe:  1986/1989
Age:  12/15
Alleged Abuser:  Nathaniel Morales 

36.  During 1986/1989 timeframe, during Plaintiff Roberts’ middle school years, Plaintiff Roberts was molested again on church premises, this time by a man named Nathaniel Morales who was involved in youth ministries.  At that time, the CLC church services occurred at Magruder High School.  Morales pulled Plaintiff Roberts into one of the dressing rooms off the side of the stage, and began to profess his love for Plaintiff Roberts.  Morales began hugging Plaintiff Roberts and manually manipulating his penis.  Plaintiff Roberts escaped but did not initially report the molestation because he feared being forced to sit and “reconcile” and “forgive” Morales for the molestation. 

Observations (by Detweiler)

Roberts was “molested again” during his “middle school years.”  This time by Nathaniel Morales.  His first alleged molestation occurred during his elementary school years at the hands of David Adams. (cf. Complaint 32).    

Morales was not employed by Covenant Life Church but he “was involved in youth ministries.”  For example, he conducted Bible studies and hosted sleepovers for boys from the youth group.  He also taught at Montgomery County Christian Academy.  The school was unaffiliated with Covenant Life Church but kids from the church attended there.  

This alleged molestation occurred on a Sunday morning “in one of the dressing rooms off the side of the stage” in Marauder High School.  Morales hugged and professed his “love” while trying to masturbate Roberts.  Roberts escaped like he did with David Adams (cf. Complaint 32). 

Roberts tells us why he did not report this second alleged molestation to Principal Loftness or anyone else.  “Plaintiff Roberts…did not initially report the molestation because he feared being forced to sit and ‘reconcile’ and ‘forgive’ Morales for the molestation.”  This harkens back to how he was handled by Loftness in Complaint 34.  “Instead, Defendant Loftness required Plaintiff Roberts, a child, to attend a meeting with himself and David Adams.  Plaintiff Roberts was directed by Defendant Loftness, the principal of his school, to ‘forgive’ Adams for the molestation.”  

This account describes Loftness using forgiveness as a means to silence and manipulate an 8-10 year old boy who was just abused by David Adams.  I will say more about this in the future. 

It is the hope of TWW that the truth of this matter will be vigorously sought. We would guess that all Christians who claim to follow Him who is the Truth would want the same.

Again, TWW applauds the honesty and courage of James Roberts, along with the other victims, in coming forward. They are heroes in our book. 

Lydia's Corner: Ezekiel 39:1-40:27 James 2:18-3:18 Psalm 118:1-18 Proverbs 28:2

Comments

Is Nate Morales’ Victim James Roberts’ Press Release a Harbinger? — 107 Comments

  1. ‘Plaintiff Roberts escaped but did not initially report the molestation because he feared being forced to sit and “reconcile” and “forgive” Morales for the molestation.’

    This just made me shudder.

  2. I am grateful that James Roberts came forward, along with the other victims of Nate Morales, and I appreciate his encouragement for other victims to do the same.

    James, please know that you are in my thoughts and prayers. You are to be commended for your courage.

  3. Jodie B. wrote:

    ‘Plaintiff Roberts escaped but did not initially report the molestation because he feared being forced to sit and “reconcile” and “forgive” Morales for the molestation.’

    Yeah, that’s another reason I’ll be out at the Phoenix Convention Center on June 20. I am not saying that forgiveness and reconciliation aren’t desirable, but people need time to work through what’s happening, and part of that time is to bring perpetrators to justice. In my not so humble opinion, the atmosphere at CLC (and, it is my understanding, at SGM too) went straight for the “forgiveness” and “reconciliation” without the justice component.

  4. I wanted to make this a separate comment, because I see this thought as being somewhat explosive. However, I have to wonder, given the emphasis on men being over women and children and being encouraged to direct their wives and children, if, perhaps, this didn’t influence the way child abuse was handled?

    I observed this when I lived in Utah in the 1990s. There was a scandal where a young man sexually abused a small girl (about age 5 if memory serves). She was able to identify him in part because a medication he took caused him to have a particular smell. The young man went to prison, but was going to be released, not paroled, outright RELEASED, so he could serve a Mormon mission in Chile. The parents of the little girl did everything they could to stop this travesty. They finally went to the Salt Lake Tribune and told their story. That put the kibosh on it, but the parents had to move from where they were because they protected their child. They were badly criticized for hurting a priesthood holder’s chance at serving a mission. At no time did anyone think of the girl, only that this young man’s chances at fulfilling expected religious duties were being hampered by a child abuse conviction.

    Nearly two decades later, I’m still disgusted. But I have to ask if something like this wasn’t in play at CLC?

  5. I hope it is a harbinger of things to come, I hope to God it is. I want to see one miscreant in particular go down for complicity and be made an example of. I want them to flat out be told by the courts where their ‘religious liberty’ ends and where the laws of the land protecting children are upheld and trump what they can handle ‘in house’. End of rant.

  6. Deb wrote:

    It’s absolutely awful what some of these victims had to endure through forced reconciliation.

    If “reconciliation” means hiding the truth so an abuser can abuse again, and making the innocent party feel like it was really their fault the abuse happened, and allowing not only the abuser to symbolically abuse their victim again via their “apology” (aka the opposite of a true apology) but also the “church leaders” (aka people that should have never been in church leadership) to also symbolically abuse the victim again … then, yeah.

    Gosh, no wonder he didn’t want to say anything. I’m still shuddering.

  7. mirele fka Southwestern Discomfort wrote: I am not saying that forgiveness and reconciliation aren’t desirable, but people need time to work through what’s happening, and part of that time is to bring perpetrators to justice. In my not so humble opinion, the atmosphere at CLC (and, it is my understanding, at SGM too) went straight for the “forgiveness” and “reconciliation” without the justice component.

    Deb and Mirele, you gotta love the misuse of words by these people. Making “forgiveness” and “reconciliation” mean something so sinister and without any sense of justice. With abusers “repenting” (aka not anything near repentance) … agh!

  8. Grant Layman was called to the stand and provided additional evidence of a conspiracy. There are good reasons to believe Mr. Layman is now cooperating with law enforcement.

    As that one defense lawyer/commentator said about OJ’s bust in Vegas:
    “I’m singing in the rain,
    Just singing in the rain…”

    Because in Conspiracy cases, the first bird to start singing gets the lightest sentence. Only one per case, so make sure you’re the first.

  9. We might actually get to see Cee Jay on the stand, with his liveried armorbearers blowing long trumpets before him to announce to the court how HUMBLE he is.

  10. @ mirele fka Southwestern Discomfort:
    Mirele, I’m sorry to say that the story you shared makes perfect sense to me. Sadly I can see it happening again right now. There is a current case where a branch president was deemed to be not guilty of sexual assault and the LDS-owned news station ran an article celebrating his release. The victims’ family was not contacted, presumably due to the fact that they were forced to move from their home. I don’t know if the man is innocent or guilty. I do know that there is an unhealthy adoration of leaders within the belief system. That adoration makes it easy for any type of criminal to be comfortable.

  11. James, thank you for your comment. Thank you for coming forward with your story and may God bless you. Like you, I and many others strongly desire to see justice done.

    I just read Boz Tchivijian’s take on all of this a year ago. I recommend reading it again as a salutary reminder of the sheer horror of this sorry saga, which continues to play out before our eyes. James’s statement reminds us that the saga is nowhere near over yet. And that the response of so-called ‘gospel’ leaders has been staggeringly misjudged, to the point where damage to the wider Church is an inevitability.

    http://netgrace.org/where-are-the-voices-the-continued-culture-of-silence-and-protection-in-american-evangelicalism/

    Boz simply cannot believe the response – or should that be non-response – of the TGC and T4G to the SGM civil lawsuit – which he calls “one of the most disturbing accounts of child sexual abuse and institutional “cover up” I have read in my almost 20 years of addressing this issue.” And this was before the Nate Morales case.

  12. Let’s not forget that a year ago, with their statement on the civil lawsuit, the Gospel Coalition were already lying through their teeth.

    For instance, in their statement in defence of C.J. (and against the victims), they wrote: ‘So the entire legal strategy was dependent on a conspiracy theory that was more hearsay than anything like reasonable demonstration of culpability. As to the specific matter of C. J. participating in some massive cover-up, the legal evidence was so paltry (more like non-existent) that the judge did not think a trial was even warranted.’

    Now, this was a complete lie – and the astonishing thing is that it could be simply and easily shown – just by looking at the official document – that this was a lie. The judge threw it out because the statute of limitations had expired, and for no other reason. Yet TGC blatantly lied. A year on, they’re still lying, about Tullian Tchvijian, though it’s not as provable this time.

    And why do people still admire these guys and flock to their conferences?? Why why why???

  13. May wrote:

    Now, this was a complete lie – and the astonishing thing is that it could be simply and easily shown – just by looking at the official document – that this was a lie.

    Yes. At the time I was not involved in these circles anymore, but was basically friendly or at least neutral. When I read this particular article, I was dumbfounded. It was obvious, blatant, lying. And I lost ll respect for those involved.

  14. ‘Plaintiff Roberts escaped but did not initially report the molestation because he feared being forced to sit and “reconcile” and “forgive” Morales for the molestation.’
    Such a scenario is basically the definition of wickedness. This is so sad.
    James, thank you for coming forward. May God work out justice, since (some of) his people won’t.

  15. Thanks to James. Actually BIG thanks to James and the other victims for their courage.

    The “boys” playing church need to drop their words like reconciliation, forgiveness, complementarian, authority, etc. and become more familiar with words like CRIMINAL PROSECUTION, justice, doing time, etc.

  16. James, you are doing the right thing, and we all recognize your courage in what you are doing. Thank you for this information. God bless you.

  17. “Plaintiff Roberts escaped but did not initially report the molestation because he feared being forced to sit and “reconcile” and “forgive” Morales for the molestation…. Roberts was “molested again”…

    James, that you endured all that, that you grew up and sorted it out, that you found the real God, that you gathered yourself together to bring it to trial, and that you remain open and patient even now…well, you are an amazingly strong and wise person!!

    The one useful thing about getting through such experiences is that one certainly knows BS when it appears. w00t

    Kudos from one survivor to another.

  18. James,

    Thank you for coming forward, enduring your own pain, to put a stop to a predator who has been harming children. I’m truly sorry for what you have been through and pray that you and others receive justice and are able to move forward in your lives. I’m so glad that Morales is behind bars.

  19. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    Just dress for extreme heat.
    They don’t call it “The Valley of the Sun” for nothing.

    Yep. Let me tell you about keeping “emergency” water in the car here. Unless it’s on ice, you might as well be pouring boiling oil down your throat. I learned that the hard way.

  20. James, thank you. Thank you for speaking out and pursuing justice. I know it was not easy. Thank you for encouraging other victims/survivors to come forward and tell their stories. If victims that had gone before me had not been silenced, what happened to me may not have happened.

    Plaintiff Roberts escaped but did not initially report the molestation because he feared being forced to sit and “reconcile” and “forgive” Morales for the molestation.

    This is so important. I know in my own experience, many (including my own head) ask why I didn’t tell someone what was going on. Simple, the environment of tying it all in to religion – into God Himself – is a powerful thing to am adult….a child? Well, when I was 2 1/2 and the person who molested me was caught in the act, my silence was insured by conveying to me that if I ever spoke about it, I would be hurting God, Himself! 50 years on, and I still can’t fully unlock it….

    I am so grateful for your voice and that you found people who would support you while you speak. My prayer is that justice will prevail and the truth will be known.

  21. James Roberts has amazing courage to relive and recount this trauma after so long. Puts Layman, Mahaney and all their cohorts to shame. At least, I hope it will, and soon.

    Muff Potter wrote:

    I want them to flat out be told by the courts where their ‘religious liberty’ ends and where the laws of the land protecting children are upheld and trump what they can handle ‘in house’.

    I like the way Australian Senator Nick Xenophon put it:

    “…there are no limits on what you can believe, but there are limits on how you can behave. It’s called the law, and no one is above it.”

  22. @ Dr. Fundystan:

    When I read this particular article, I was dumbfounded. It was obvious, blatant, lying. And I lost all respect for those involved.

    Same here. Makes you wonder why they had to lie when the evidence is supposedly on their side so OBVIOUSLY.

  23.   __

    Gate 9: “Justice…Late Arrival?”

    hmmm…

    …for there is no longer a dark place for this evil to hide. ” – James Roberts

    “There are good reasons to believe Mr. Layman is now cooperating with law enforcement. ” –  Brent Detweiler

    huh?

    IMHO There is every reason to believe Nate Morales is now cooperating with law enforcement as well.

    What?

    After all, there are bigger proverbial 501(c)3 pastoral religious alligators ta corral,  n’est-ce pas?

    Krunch!

    “The primary mission of Sovereign Grace Ministries is to serve Sovereign Grace pastors who are giving their lives to build Gospel-centered local churches. We want to do everything[1]  we can to help them serve the people they lead…”  -Bob Kauflin,  Sovereign Grace Ministries; January 24, 2008

    [1] E-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g?

    Skreeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch!

    PU

    “Lazarus… COME FORTH!”

    **
     “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die.” – Jesus

    Kind folks, faith is certainly the substance of things ‘hoped for’, the ‘conviction’ of things unseen.

    The chains removed, the victim set free, the perpetrators brought to justice, the scales removed from circumspect eyes…

    James, justice be served! Interceding on you behalf, to the Father of lights,

    (peace)

      Do not be disheartened, my beloved brethren, every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow. Please remember, fellow believer as well, that it is the exercise of His will that has brought us forth by the word of ‘truth’. “I am the way, and the ‘truth’, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” , Jesus said.

    (smiley face goes here)

    *

    Whoop-ee-ti-yi-o  Some of these 501(c)3 Theo-boys have bit this old religion trail for fame, pleasure, and for profit, but that’s where they get it most awfully wrong, I wish I could tell you the troubles they given us, as they go rolling these unsuspecting sheepies along… [1]

    (sadface)

    Sopy
    __
    [1] Lyrics reflects parody adaptation. “Get Along Little Doggies” ; Songwriter: Cisco Houston; lyrics  © The Bicycle Music Company.; sung by  Woody Guthrie. All rights reserved;  U.S. Title 17 copyright infringement unintended.
    http://www.metrolyrics.com/get-along-little-doggies-lyrics-woody-guthrie.html

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2hf-hV_Sv8

  24. After CJ Mahaney was declared fit to minister by the Ambassadors of Reconciliation while still living in Maryland (state motto: “Manly deeds womanly words”), he gathered his family around him as well as others and fled to Kentucky (state motto: “United we stand, divided we fall”). There he has attempted to establish himself under the protection of his good friend Al Mohler, and with the help of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary (motto: “For the truth. For the church. For the world. For the glory of God”).

    Reportedly things have been quiet in Louisville at SGCL, and one is left to wonder why.* Maybe they’re planning another relocation? Guyana would be too obvious. The Philippines? Despite SGM contacts there, it’s too shakey with all those earthquakes. Hmm, maybe Iceland!?

    Cons: “Icelandic culture is not a guilt culture as is most of the Christian world and particularly that influenced by Calvinism.” It “is one of the few socio-cultural systems not to have been exposed at one point or another to Calvinism or post-Puritan piety.” From the book, “Icelandic Spiritualism: Mediumship and Modernity in Iceland” by by Loftur Reimar Gissurarson & William H. Swatos Jr.

    Pros: “Let’s say you are an American facing prosecution and you want to escape the long arm of the American law. Where’s the best place to go? Iceland, perhaps.”
    http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2013/06/10/190364501/you-face-a-u-s-legal-problem-where-should-you-run

    Also, “Sports in Iceland are very popular. For nine recent years, Iceland remains a very healthy nation. Popular sports include handball, football, athletics, basketball, golf, volleyball, tennis, swimming, and chess.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_in_Iceland

    Cons: “Icelanders are famous for their immense strength. Strength athletics and powerlifting have been Iceland’s greatest success in sports on an international level. In the World’s Strongest Man competition, Iceland has the most championships” (from the same Wikipedia article sited above)

    Also, and probably the biggest: “Iceland was officially proclaimed, for the second year in a row, the most feminist place in the world, the top scorer on the World Economic Forum’s 2010 Global Gender Gap Rankings”
    http://www.thenation.com/article/158279/most-feminist-place-world

    I also read the United Arab Emirates is a good deal right now, and one of the five best countries in the world to run away to with no extradition. I’m sure Todd Wilheim would go out of his way to make CJ Mahaney (un)comfortable in Dubai! 😛

    * this is tongue-in-cheek, pure speculation, and not meant to be taken seriously

  25. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote:

    mirele fka Southwestern Discomfort wrote:
    Yeah, that’s another reason I’ll be out at the Phoenix Convention Center on June 20.
    Just dress for extreme heat.
    They don’t call it “The Valley of the Sun” for nothing.

    I live just outside of Tucson. This made me laugh. But we do have A/C in AZ!

  26. Nancy wrote:

    @ mirele:
    Well, look at it this way. I bet you all don’t have as many mosquitos as we do.

    Until the monsoons hit!

  27. mirele wrote:

    Yep. Let me tell you about keeping “emergency” water in the car here. Unless it’s on ice, you might as well be pouring boiling oil down your throat. I learned that the hard way.

    Last time I was in Phoenix in the summer was ’92 WesterCon. What I remember the most is the way the heat would hit you like a solid object when you stepped from shade into full sun. Worse than any time I’ve been to Tucson, but none of those was during the height of summer.

  28. James,

    It’s all about justice. A CRIME was committed against you and for that you are owed JUSTICE.

    Instead, Sovereign Grace Ministries made you believe that merely a SIN was committed against you and YOU owed THEM forgiveness. You’re not alone. Last night because of this ongoing battle, I read countless other cases in other churches where other victims were made to believe the same. But here’s the problem, there is a vast difference between a CRIME and a SIN. Both do require forgiveness, but the first ALWAYS, always necessitates JUSTICE. I am praying you get it to the FULL extent of all parties who owe it.

    TJ

  29. Nancy wrote:

    Well, look at it this way. I bet you all don’t have as many mosquitos as we do.

    I wouldn’t count on that. Unlike Tucson, Greater Phoenix has been so built up with greenery that there’s a lot of water in the atmosphere (fountains, sprinklers, pools, etc). And the heat there is getting muggy.

  30. James — a thousand thank yous for what you have done. I am so sorry for what you endured at the hands of the perpetrators and the pastors. I hope you are feeling a healing balm in every way. You have my utmost admiration.

    These pastors have truly mixed up forgiveness and reconciliation. Reconciliation dooes not necessarily mean restoration of a relationship. Forgiveness cannot be coerced; the person who forgives needs to feel it from the heart, and not be forced to give lip service. How many times have I heard kids utter a sarcastic “sorry” after they’ve bullied someone. They’re not sorry. They’re just sorry they got caught, and once they’re out of the mother’s/teacher’s sight, they’ll do it again.

    Asking someone for forgiveness means acknowledging what you did, and making a good-faith statement that you believe it was wrong, and with God’s help, you’ll never do it again. Pedophiles generally don’t think they did anything wrong.

    Extending forgiveness means that your spirit has been quickened in such a way that when your brain says, “I forgive”, you know with all your being that you have forgiven. You might never forget the injury, but it will no longer feel so painful.

    Forgiveness doesn’t happen instantaneously — it probably rarely happens instantaneously. It’s often a process. And I disagree with what some have reported that they were taught in SGM, that you don’t forgive someone who hasn’t asked for forgiveness. No. You forgive, when you want to, when the Spirit leads you to, even if the person who transgressed against you never knows you have forgiven. They may not even think that they did anything wrong to you.

    My own departure from SGM came from a transgression that I felt that I needed to forgive, yet I knew the transgressor did not believe he was wrong at the time. So, I wasn’t going to go forward with unforgiveness in my heart simply because he had not asked to be forgiven. But people asked me, “If you have forgiven, why haven’t you come back?” And the answer was that forgiveness doesn’t mean that things will go back to the way they were before. Sometimes, you can forgive, but you can no longer trust. Trust needs to be earned, and in the case of a pedophile, how could the pastors place a child in the position to be around a person they could not trust?

    Their naivety about pedophilia is understandable to a degree, given the lack of information and lack of education they had on the subject (and many other subjects!) But their arrogance in thinking that they had the knowledge and the methods to make the problem go away cannot be overlooked.

    Sorry for the rambling….the bottom line is #ISTANDWITHSGMVICTIMS!!

  31. Ok, I thought I was finished, but was hit with another thought. Another cause of this “forgive the perp, forget, and go on as if it never happened” is the idea that everyone is married to the church. There seems to be a latent mindset that nobody leaves, no matter what they did, because they’re married to the church and the church is married to them. But they got church mixed up with Church.

    In one of the KW cases, the perp and his family were told to find another place to go to church after his jail time, so that the child who was molested would never have to see him again. Though there are many things through the years that KW did that were clearly wrong, in the matters of the 3 perps I knew about, they did the right thing. It’s striking that their actions were so different from CLC’s and the other SGM churches. I believe it is because Brent was the little a to whom they answered, and his directive was for them to report. I know that many people were hurt by Brent, but if he indeed made the decision to report these perps, it’s clear that he was not always on the same page (another SGMism, yuck) with the Pope.

  32. Deb wrote:

    @ Jodie B.:
    It’s absolutely awful what some of these victims had to endure through forced reconciliation.

    If I have the timeline correct, James was allegedly forced to “reconcile” with Adams, and then LATER, Ex-CLCer’s sister was forced to “reconcile” with the same man. http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/?p=2749&wpmp_switcher=mobile Read comment 360 from Ex-CLCer’s Mom.
    Especially troubling: ‘When meeting with Gary Ricucci, he did not like me continually referring to the perp as a pedophile-he begged to differ over such a label being applied. (I do have a letter from a professional counselor in my possession that clearly defines him as such, BTW) When we looked up the word in the dictionary, and it read, “One who is sexually attracted to children” Gary’s response to that was, “Well, I think he was more attracted to the woman she was becoming rather than the child that she was”.’ (Mom reiterated this accusation in the lawsuit)

  33. Nickname wrote:

    And the answer was that forgiveness doesn’t mean that things will go back to the way they were before. Sometimes, you can forgive, but you can no longer trust.

    That’s absolutely correct. To put a child victim back into the presence of the pedophile predator is to traumatize and endanger the child and temp the pedophile. To do that in the name of forgiveness is to take something that God himself practices (forgiveness) and use it as an instrument of evil.

  34. @ Dave A A:

    I remember reading about that. It boggles the mind how some people can make up the stupidest excuses to cover for the perp.

  35. In other news, at least one religious leader seems to “get it”. “Sexual abuse is such an ugly crime … because a priest who does this betrays the body of the Lord. It is like a satanic Mass,” the Pope said.
    “We must go ahead with zero tolerance.”

  36. Today it’s in the news that Pope Francis is to meet with victims of clerical sex abuse. To quote a UK newspaper: he “declared that any priests involved in molesting children had performed the equivalent of “a satanic mass”.

    So now what do we have?

    1. The leader of one church owning that abuses have taken place, expressing in extreme terms that sexual molestation of children is evil and planning to meet with victims.

    2. The self-proclaimed leaders of another church ‘movement’ ignoring a major sex scandal in a church they support. Pulling out all the stops to protect the leader of that church. No plans to meet victims. No public statement decrying sex abuse of children.

  37. May wrote:

    The self-proclaimed leaders of another church ‘movement’ ignoring a major sex scandal in a church they support.

    And that same bunch wanting to get into a theological foo-faw over what constitutes righteousness.
    As if they would know anything about it.

  38. James did the right thing.

    Any person who is the victim of a crime should report the crime to the authorities. There should me no question about this in the Christian community.

    The fact, apparently, that there was a question about this in SGM churches, and other churches, shows a terrible lack of understanding.

    This lack of understanding turned to manipulation and force to see that the rules were followed.

    I am glad that James came forward and I wish him the best.

  39. TJ wrote:

    ut here’s the problem, there is a vast difference between a CRIME and a SIN. Both do require forgiveness, but the first ALWAYS, always necessitates JUSTICE. I am praying you get it to the FULL extent of all parties who owe it.

    Awesome comment!!!!

  40. Nancy wrote:

    Well, look at it this way. I bet you all don’t have as many mosquitos as we do.

    We do get a few mosquitoes in July and August (if it rains). And we have Valley Fever (a nasty dust-borne fungal illness which takes months to get rid of). But mostly it’s just the overwhelming heat.

  41. Serving Kids in Japan wrote:

    I like the way Australian Senator Nick Xenophon put it:

    “…there are no limits on what you can believe, but there are limits on how you can behave. It’s called the law, and no one is above it.”

    I *love* Nick Xenophon. He’s taken on my “favorite” *snicker* cult and brought some accountability we could desperately use here in the USA.

  42. I’d never heard of Nick Xenophon before today, so I looked him up. Don’t like his hair, but apart from that, he seems a useful fellow to have on the planet. Kind of like the thinking man’s Boris Johnson.

    Interestingly, the name “Xenophon” (which is slightly altered from his birth name, but is still Greek) could be translated as “the voice of the outsider”. How can you not love that?

  43. @ Nick Bulbeck:

    One more Nick Xenophon comment. A direct quote from the man himself:

    I can honestly say I plan to be a pesky, persistent b*****d in and out of the Senate for the next three years.

    At the risk of repeating myself, and assuming his cupboard is hiding no intolerable skeletons, how can you not love this guy?

  44. Yes, this. TJ, thank you for this excellent and clear statement.

    TJ wrote:

    A CRIME was committed against you and for that you are owed JUSTICE.
    Instead, Sovereign Grace Ministries made you believe that merely a SIN was committed against you and YOU owed THEM forgiveness.

  45. May wrote:

    1. The leader of one church owning that abuses have taken place, expressing in extreme terms that sexual molestation of children is evil and planning to meet with victims.

    To a media reaction of “BS, BS, BS, spin, spin, spin.”

    THAT’s how bad these abuses (and their coverups) has damaged that church’s reputation.

    2. The self-proclaimed leaders of another church ‘movement’ ignoring a major sex scandal in a church they support. Pulling out all the stops to protect the leader of that church. No plans to meet victims. No public statement decrying sex abuse of children.

    HUMBLY, of course. (chuckle chuckle)

  46. @ Paula:

    I wonder what Todd Whilhem would do if Der Humble one personally planted another Sovereign Grace church..say Sovereign Grace Church Dubai. Think of all the conferences that could happen there!! Mark Dever could cone and visit his best buddies CJ Mahaney and John Folmar. And all….right outside Todd Whilhem’s doorstep!!

    I’d pull up a lawn chair, buy some popcorn and take a renewed passion in Todd’s blog. Plus I love seeing certain bald men who are in ministry sweet!. Its a fundagelical fetish of mine!! :-p

  47. mirele fka Southwestern Discomfort wrote:

    I *love* Nick Xenophon. He’s taken on my “favorite” *snicker* cult

    Another ‘good guy’ is Michael Bachelard who wrote the book, ‘Behind the Exclusive Bretheren’. He’s now an Indonesian correspondent. May both of these cults lose their tax-free benefits.

  48. @ Nick Bulbeck:

    the name “Xenophon”… could be translated as “the voice of the outsider”. How can you not love that?
    +++++++++++++++++++

    oh, to have the conviction to go to the courthouse to change my name… but so much more so, to embody it. I reckon, my dear friends, it’s something like 34% nature, 33% nurture, 33% action, 6 % electricity, and 2% butterscotch ripple.

  49. My new office is in an area where I didn’t usually go until I started working for the agency. As I drove to it today, I passed an apartment building where, I suddenly remembered, I had attended a bible study led by Nate Morales many many years ago. It was a very weird and eerie flashback.

    On Sunday I had lunch with a friend who has no internet access so she is very behind on the latest about CLC. She read a newspaper article in the local media and was understandably very distressed. As I told her, people like her and me, who had no reason to ever know about the sexual abuse that occurred, are now hearing every last gory detail and cover up. And it’s due to, not only the horrible abuse of the pedophiles, but the unconscionable cover up. These are matters that NONE of us should have to deal with – most of all not the victims. But because of the abuse and cover up, all of us are affected to some extent. It shows you never know how many people are affected by your sin.

  50. @ Marie2:

    As it happens, I did once get 107% in a maths * test (it’s complicated…).

    * “Maths” is short for “mathematics”. It is better-known as “math” in the US. Neither is to be confused with fizzix.

  51. @ Nick Bulbeck:

    So you really don’t hate to ask!! I thought as much. You really do want to know about that 8%. Can’t have any unaccounted for numbers, now, can we 😉

  52. Nick Bulbeck wrote:

    @ Marie2:
    As it happens, I did once get 107% in a maths * test (it’s complicated…).
    * “Maths” is short for “mathematics”. It is better-known as “math” in the US. Neither is to be confused with fizzix.

    I LOVE Maths!!! Yes, I have no problem believing you once got a 107%!

    I once got a 108% or something high, and the teacher wanted to push me up to the next math level, because he thought I did not belong in the class. He interrupted another class to introduce me immediately to another teacher, and the teacher promptly said he had no room.

    “Oh what fun it is to look, at another child’s SHAYY-EEM!” to the tune of “Oh what fun it is to ride, in a one horse open SLAYY-EEE!”

  53. Bridget wrote:

    @ Nick Bulbeck:
    So you really don’t hate to ask!! I thought as much. You really do want to know about that 8%. Can’t have any unaccounted for numbers, now, can we

    That’s right Ms Bridget!

    The deep theological question of the day is, would those unaccounted for numbers be a crime, or a SIN??? Deep thoughts…

  54. @ Nick Bulbeck:
    Nick Bulbeck wrote:

    * “Maths” is short for “mathematics”.

    PS I have heard that moniker many times in the past. Thank you so much for your ongoing British English translations. Very nice of you.

  55. @ mirele fka Southwestern Discomfort:

    K. I got caught up in responding to other comments, and forgot that I had meant to respond to this one, first.

    So do you have all the necessary protest permits?
    Can you alert all the news outlets?
    Are there any local churches who might want to get involved???

  56. Today we received a response from Frank Page, President and CEO of the SBC Executive Committee in Nashville, who decided to double down on his hurtful comments about the victims and advocates of SNAP: http://watchkeep.blogspot.com/2014/05/a-response-from-southern-baptist.html#sthash.xDmnwZxG.7lc3ofzw.dpuf

    The depths of the darkness and evil of child sexual abuse within churches is real. It’s disgusting. It’s horrific. The backlash, intimidation, threats and silencing of victims and abuse advocates is real. It’s disgusting. It’s horrific.

    But still, I won’t be silent anymore.

  57. @ Eagle:
    lol I’m sure Todd would do his best to make things uncomfortable for CJ and his band of bandits is they were to run away…err relocate to Dubai. Right Todd!? 😛

    But not to worry. John Piper has already declared the city, and that tower, will be destroyed. Which probably scared all those guys that like to band together and make appearances at one another’s conferences. Wouldn’t want to be speaking at a conference in Dubai about giving your life as a ransom for the Lord and have that tower fall on you lol!

  58. @ Marie2:

    Nick Bulbeck wrote:

    @ elastigirl:
    I hate to ask, but where did you scrounge the extra 8% from?

    Marie wrote:
    Why, that’s an easy one, if you are a SouthPark fan, she clearly got some good math advice from Mr. Al Gore himself:
    +++++++++++++++++++++

    Willy Wonka.

  59. @ Amy Smith:
    Amy, here are no words (that wouldn’t get me in permanent mod). WTF? He is amply demonstrating he is part of the problem. Who would be the void of the victims if it weren’t for groups like SNAP?

  60. I believe that Prestonwood, and other SBC entities, are engaged in a conspiracy of silence that effectively protects and enables child abusers, and should be held to account for hundreds, if not thousands, of incidents in which children have been sexually abused, as a result of that conspiracy. The lack of compassion for the children in their churches, to act to prevent the harm that sexual abuse imposes on them, is, to me, indicative that they do not have the spirit of Christ in them. If they did, they would act. Christ acted to save them from hell by dying on the cross. The least they could do would be to be open and transparent and to take steps to protect the children and to watch for and report suspected child abuse.

    I believe that a church that covers up, because of senior leadership reluctance to report, is conspiring to enable the abuse of children, and its leaders should be held criminally liable for that. And that includes the current pastors at many SBC churches, including Prestonwood.

  61. @ May:

    he “declared that any priests involved in molesting children had performed the equivalent of “a satanic mass”.

    Okay, Pope Francis is officially awesome.

  62. Amy Smith wrote:

    Here’s the letter David Clohessy and I received today from Frank Page:

    Guess what Frank Page got his doctorate in–christian ethics– at a southern baptist seminary, or so says Wikipedia.

  63. An Attorney wrote:

    The lack of compassion for the children in their churches, to act to prevent the harm that sexual abuse imposes on them, is, to me, indicative that they do not have the spirit of Christ in them.

    If that is true, and one does have to think that way, then the whole sex abuse scandal may just be the tip of the iceberg.

  64. Nancy wrote:

    An Attorney wrote:
    The lack of compassion for the children in their churches, to act to prevent the harm that sexual abuse imposes on them, is, to me, indicative that they do not have the spirit of Christ in them.
    If that is true, and one does have to think that way, then the whole sex abuse scandal may just be the tip of the iceberg.

    I’m inclined to agree…and yet Mark Dever declared recently that the members of SGM churches display more fruits of the Spirit than any other church he knows…

    Is it just me, or is that a really bizarre thing to say about ANY denomination? I mean, it would sound odd if someone said: ‘Yeah, I think Presbyterians definitely display more fruit of the Spirit than any other denomination’… Why the public adulation of C.J. and his loyal followers? Piper did it too at SGM Louisville.

  65. Sorry, formatting error. This bit is mine:

    I’m inclined to agree… and yet Mark Dever declared recently that the members of SGM churches display more fruits of the Spirit than any other church he knows…
    Is it just me, or is that a really bizarre thing to say about ANY denomination? I mean, it would sound odd if someone said: ‘Yeah, I think Presbyterians definitely display more fruit of the Spirit than any other denomination’… Why the public adulation of C.J. and his loyal followers? Piper did it too at SGM Louisville.

  66. Hester wrote:

    @ May:
    he “declared that any priests involved in molesting children had performed the equivalent of “a satanic mass”.
    Okay, Pope Francis is officially awesome.

    This was a fantastic statement. It is indeed that evil.

  67. Nick Bulbeck wrote:

    At the risk of repeating myself, and assuming his cupboard is hiding no intolerable skeletons, how can you not love this guy?

    He got his start going after “pokies” (apparently a type of slot machine available in Australia). Here in Arizona, with the proliferation of Indian gaming, that’d be a non-starter, but to each his own. He’s come into his own with taking on Scientology.

  68. May wrote:

    Is it just me, or is that a really bizarre thing to say about ANY denomination?

    I notice that people keep mentioning things that are bizarre or weird or strange or make no sense. People keep saying things like “why would anybody do that” about things. “How do you explain?” What kind of person would do that?” “How could they…” That sort of thing.

    If a lot of people cannot make any sense of something there is a real possibility that there is no sense to be made of it.

  69. Marie2 wrote:

    .

    So do you have all the necessary protest permits?
    Can you alert all the news outlets?
    Are there any local churches who might want to get involved???

    You don’t need a permit in general to stand outside on the public sidewalk with a sign here in Arizona. Since this conference is in a city of Phoenix-owned building, the First Amendment right to stand outside the building with a sign is quite a bit stronger.

    As for news outlets: I am not looking to attract attention from the news media. Seriously. My purpose is to let the people who come in from out of town to hear CJ Mahaney know that maybe this isn’t the guy you should be taking spiritual advice from.

    Involving churches…probably not. The idea makes me queasy. I’d prefer to have individuals come out of their own free will, not because someone over a pulpit suggests it.

  70. @ mirele fka Southwestern Discomfort:
    Mirele, I am speechless. It’s not that often that I am at a loss for words. I LOVE your real humility!!!

    Seriously, you rock. I guess the only thing extra would be to dress up as a giant vagina with all of the leaders’ names on it.

    What total pussies.

    Ok let’s see if this post passes moderation.

    My idea would be taking the whole point too far, but like they say, it’s the thought that counts.

  71. Amy Smith wrote:

    Today we received a response from Frank Page, President and CEO of the SBC Executive Committee in Nashville, who decided to double down on his hurtful comments about the victims and advocates of SNAP: http://watchkeep.blogspot.com/2014/05/a-response-from-southern-baptist.html#sthash.xDmnwZxG.7lc3ofzw.dpuf

    The depths of the darkness and evil of child sexual abuse within churches is real. It’s disgusting. It’s horrific. The backlash, intimidation, threats and silencing of victims and abuse advocates is real. It’s disgusting. It’s horrific.

    But still, I won’t be silent anymore.

    Amy, thank you for all the work you do. It takes people like you, with single-minded determination, to bring change. Thank you for hanging in there and bringing the deeds of darkness to light. May God continue to richly bless you.

  72. @ mirele fka Southwestern Discomfort:

    Amen, well said!!

    And my comments were not meant to mock what you are doing at all.

    I just wish I could be there to um, try to politely engage those sheep.

    Maybe the cognitive dissonance of me dressed in a completely silly costume, and being painstakingly polite to them could get them thinking???

  73. @ mirele fka Southwestern Discomfort:

    “…I’d prefer to have individuals come out of their own free will, not because someone over a pulpit suggests it.”
    ++++++++++++++

    if I lived anywhere near, i’d join you. can you somehow let the word out locally, to inform all that free will? strength in numbers ‘n all.

  74. elastigirl wrote:

    @ mirele fka Southwestern Discomfort:
    “…I’d prefer to have individuals come out of their own free will, not because someone over a pulpit suggests it.”
    ++++++++++++++
    if I lived anywhere near, i’d join you. can you somehow let the word out locally, to inform all that free will? strength in numbers ‘n all.

    Yes! That’s more of what I meant! I wish you could just hang a few posters at local grocery stores…

    I understand that churches might not the best source for people to come together over this… 🙁

  75. May wrote:

    Sorry, formatting error. This bit is mine:
    I’m inclined to agree… and yet Mark Dever declared recently that the members of SGM churches display more fruits of the Spirit than any other church he knows…
    Is it just me, or is that a really bizarre thing to say about ANY denomination? I mean, it would sound odd if someone said: ‘Yeah, I think Presbyterians definitely display more fruit of the Spirit than any other denomination’… Why the public adulation of C.J. and his loyal followers? Piper did it too at SGM Louisville.

    CJ put a lot of emphasis on greeting people, being outgoing and making eye contact with visitors at the church. Even little children were expected to do this, and it was considered a sign of poor parenting if your child did not make eye contact and show a willingness to interact with strange adults.

  76. @ Marie2:
    Why thank you! (I said that with an affected southern accent btw) 😉

    For being so nice, I’d serve you a glass of iced tea except I can’t stand the stuff!

    Rest assured I will not offer you any kook-aid 😀 (happy now Attorney lol?)

    Cold sparkling water with lemon? Hope that works!

    Have a lovely day, Marie 🙂

  77. Paula wrote:

    CJ put a lot of emphasis on greeting people, being outgoing and making eye contact with visitors at the church. Even little children were expected to do this, and it was considered a sign of poor parenting if your child did not make eye contact and show a willingness to interact with strange adults.

    Wow. I can’t even imagine what that must have been like for kids who are in the period when they’re developmentally shy towards strangers, to say nothing about kids who are shy overall and autistic kids (and adults) who have trouble making eye contact anyway! Yikes.

  78. mirele fka Southwestern Discomfort wrote:

    CJ put a lot of emphasis on greeting people, being outgoing and making eye contact with visitors at the church. Even little children were expected to do this, and it was considered a sign of poor parenting if your child did not make eye contact and show a willingness to interact with strange adults.
    Wow. I can’t even imagine what that must have been like for kids who are in the period when they’re developmentally shy towards strangers, to say nothing about kids who are shy overall and autistic kids (and adults) who have trouble making eye contact anyway! Yikes

    Yes, I remember reading lots of stories on SGM survivors about little kids being smacked by their parents for not greeting people in church. In one particular account, the parent took the child into the toilet, audibly smacked them, and then brought them out to say hello again. The person in question was really embarrassed and uncomfortable.

    So, basically, a highly dysfunctional church – which many who have left have no hesitation in calling a cult. And Mark Dever and John Piper think it’s great. Where is their discernment? How can they be so easily fooled? I despair, I really do.

  79. @ May:

    “And Mark Dever and John Piper think it’s great. Where is their discernment? How can they be so easily fooled?”
    ++++++++++++++++++

    I reckon they live their lives in ideological clouds, and are very far removed from reality on the ground. Their profession, which people are willing to fund, enables them to. A profession that seems progressively silly to me.

  80. @ May:
    @ elastigirl:
    I was pressed for time earlier on, but I wrote a comment on the subject of CJ Mahaney and his sincerity: http://thewartburgwatch.com/2014/05/21/tullian-tchividjian-takes-sgm-and-tgc-to-task/#comment-144864

    I think one’s opinion regarding Mahaney’s sincerity makes a big difference. For me it’s become the line I’ve drawn in the sand.

    May asked,

    So, basically, a highly dysfunctional church – which many who have left have no hesitation in calling a cult. And Mark Dever and John Piper think it’s great. Where is their discernment? How can they be so easily fooled? I despair, I really do.

    From what I’ve seen and heard, guys like Dever and Piper believe in Mahaney’s sincerity. As long as they view him as sincere, I think everything else can be excused or justified.

  81. An Attorney wrote:

    I believe that Prestonwood, and other SBC entities, are engaged in a conspiracy of silence that effectively protects and enables child abusers, and should be held to account for hundreds, if not thousands, of incidents in which children have been sexually abused, as a result of that conspiracy. The lack of compassion for the children in their churches, to act to prevent the harm that sexual abuse imposes on them, is, to me, indicative that they do not have the spirit of Christ in them. If they did, they would act. Christ acted to save them from hell by dying on the cross. The least they could do would be to be open and transparent and to take steps to protect the children and to watch for and report suspected child abuse.

    I believe that a church that covers up, because of senior leadership reluctance to report, is conspiring to enable the abuse of children, and its leaders should be held criminally liable for that. And that includes the current pastors at many SBC churches, including Prestonwood.

    I entirely agree.
    The law must step in and protect children by locking up ALL those who continue to mollycoddle the monsters who are assaulting them.

  82. @ Paula:
    Kool-Aid is for drinking with friends and children. Kook-aid is what one swallows when “leadership” is basically about accruing power and putting other people into subservient (root servant) roles to the benefit of the “leader”. If you are giving it out to be social and not enhance power, it would be spelled with the l and not the second k.

  83. @ Paula:

    Wow, the Mahaney church became a center for grooming children to become victims of abuse!!! More evidence of a conspiracy to enable abusers.