While Driscoll is listing the alleged threats against him, we thought it might be time to remind us all of Driscoll's own threats against others. What goes around can come around, Mark.
The Wartburg Watch 2024
Dissecting Christian Trends
While Driscoll is listing the alleged threats against him, we thought it might be time to remind us all of Driscoll's own threats against others. What goes around can come around, Mark.
“I CAN BEAT YOU UP! I CAN BEAT YOU UP!!! I CAN BEAT YOU UP!!!!!”
Add this one: http://youtu.be/PakCoo6swoU?t=1m
What a tool. What a small man.
The “beat your elders” video reminds me of the current dictator of a highly repressive East African nation that is routinely listed at one of the worst violators of human rights in the annual U.S. State Department report.
During my time there, one of the most common stories told about said dictator (among other accounts of the suffering he inflicts on his own people) is that he physically assaults his cabinet ministers in meetings.
Et tu, Mark?
Look at Driscoll’s smug countenance as he muses on beating his elders makes me ill.
!!!!WARNING: MerkyD’s ‘religious pastoral auto-destruct’ has been enabled?
This is as good a time as any to share this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brett-gallaher/jesus-mark-driscoll-date_b_4173984.html
Great essay, BTDT. Loved this:
“You may be reading this and have no belief in Jesus whatsoever, or you may be a life-long Christian. That’s not the point. We all have our own views.
But at the end of the day, does the Jesus that Mark calls upon resemble a symbol of love, or of resentment? Does Mark call upon a Jesus who saves lives or who shames lives? Does Mark sound more like a spiritual leader or more like a pseudo sex therapist?
You have to decide, but one thing is for sure.
Mark Driscoll wants to wrestle with sweaty men in a cage for Jesus.”
(off topic – for Headless Unicorn Guy)
Talking Pop Culture With Heathens
I think the guy in the video is earnest. Maybe it’s supposed to be comedy? Whatever it is, it made me cringe.
@ Sopwith:
Whoo hoooo!
It’s widely and reputably reported by former Sea Org members (the “church workers” of Scientology) that David Miscavige, the head of Scientology, regularly slapped and beat his underlings. He probably does even to this very day.
If I’m not going to cut David Miscavige any slack on violence, I’m not going to give Mark Driscoll a pass. And if Driscoll is saying this stuff, how far is it from saying it to actually doing it?
This is off thread. Has tww done any stories on Rob Bell? I saw him on Oprah. He sounded interesting.
@ BeenThereDoneThat: Thanks for the link – great piece!
@ Joy Huff:
A couple of posts.
http://thewartburgwatch.com/2011/05/06/rob-bell-a-gospel-as-thin-as-skinny-jeans/
http://thewartburgwatch.com/2011/05/05/rob-bell-martin-bashir-and-babies-in-hell/
Southwestern Discomfort wrote:
Iam suspicious about Driscoll’s self avowed “real man” persona. I think he threatens and then hides behind the pulpit and his security team. His fussing over his threats appear a bit lily-livered.
How a horny teenage bully masquerades as a minister.
JeffT wrote:
That sounds accurate.
Also the description of him by his wife I believe it was (according to a linked source someone here gave today) of Driscoll as a “drama queen.”
One of the oddest things about Driscoll is that despite his obsession with manhood and being a Tough Guy, he comes across to me as a teen-aged girl who is fond of drama. And that’s not a masculine persona at all.
The irony is that if Driscoll would tone down or ditch altogether the “I’m a tough dude worshipping a manly Savior!” shtick, he’d not look so… drama queenish teenage girly girl.
Why Mark Driscoll could never be one of the wise men:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nakedpastor/2013/11/why-mark-driscoll-could-never-be-one-of-the-wise-men/
@ Daisy: He’s very emotionally immature, period.
And what kind of people would laugh at garbage like that being spewed by one who claims to be a ‘Christian’ and a ‘minister’?
Making threats of bodily harm can be a crime in many jurisdictions. And it usually puts the threatener on the list of suspects if any harm comes to the threatened or anyone “near” the threatened.
He has exhibited some probable personality disorder traits for years. This one is classic and a continuation of the others in the past.
Build your brand using bully tactics in not only preaching but administration and marriage then as your stardom wanes, invoke persecution for all the good you have tried to do.
I am not sure the extent of this but if you guys recall just a while back his book “Real Marriage” was supposed to be a real blockbuster. There were to be income streams from the study materials, etc. But it backfired on a grand scale with some of their appearances on TV/Radio. Does anyone remember this? Not to mention the Exiles site got play. People were even calling for Liberty to cancel his appearance there and in other venues.
Mark desperately needs a comeback. His star is waning and what better way to atrract young ministry guys than do the drama queen with ministerial persecution and how tough he has had it with his huge income.
This drama queen/whiny pastor stuff is getting old. You should read some of the older articles on SBC Voices on how hard all pastors have it. I think they should try the real world sometime and get a taste of reality.
His threats, no. He’s suppose to be a minister…not a WWE wrestler….then again today….it’s all entertainment…sadly….
Southwestern Discomfort wrote:
Sort of off topic but maybe not. Last night, I finished reading a book by Jenn Miscavage, Dave’s niece who escaped from the SeaOrg of Scientology in her early 20’s. As I was reading through the book, the similarities between Scientology and the Christian patriarchy movement were obvious and marked. If ever I had any doubt about whether or not Phillips, Driscoll, Wilson, etc., are cult leaders, I don’t any more.
Southwestern Discomfort wrote:
Miscavige was the head of Sea Org (the elite inner order of Scientology, who are enlisted by billion-year contracts binding on all their reincarnations), who took over Scientology in a palace coup after Elron’s death. (Elron was cremated within 24 hours after death, no autopsy, only people to ever see the body — including the certifying doctor — were Inner Circle Scientologists. His death was announced as having shed his body to research higher and higher levels of Scientology Tech.) Miscavige is said to be a very short man, and to have been raised from birth entirely within Scientology.
TW
He could be one of the wise guys!
Daisy wrote:
I think he’s in earnest. Too far out to be comedy, this is a Dead Serious True Believer.
All his “how to complement the culture” does nothing more than set up a Jesus Juke as a lead-in to the Four Spiritual Laws/Altar Call presentation. (Soul Winning. Not people, Souls(TM).)
That’s how out-of-it the Christianese bubble is. With the distinct vibe of Soviet deep-cover agents practicing American slang by rote. Or the John Keel conspiracy version of Men In Black — “Ultraterrestrials” in flawed human disguises trying to pass as humans for their own arcane purposes.
WARTBURG COMMENTERS ANALYSE A MAN THEY DON’T ACTUALLY KNOW.
What a tool. What a small man
*
Look at Driscoll’s smug countenance as he muses on beating his elders makes me ill.
*
Mark Driscoll wants to wrestle with sweaty men in a cage for Jesus.”
*
Whatever it is, it made me cringe.
*
If I’m not going to cut David Miscavige any slack on violence, I’m not going to give Mark Driscoll a pass. And if Driscoll is saying this stuff, how far is it from saying it to actually doing it?
*
I think he threatens and then hides behind the pulpit and his security team. His fussing over his threats appear a bit lily-livered.
*
How a horny teenage bully masquerades as a minister.
*
one of the oddest things about Driscoll is that despite his obsession with manhood and being a Tough Guy, he comes across to me as a teen-aged girl who is fond of drama.
*
He’s very emotionally immature, period.
*
He has exhibited some probable personality disorder traits for years.
*
If ever I had any doubt about whether or not Phillips, Driscoll, Wilson, etc., are cult leaders, I don’t any more.
*
With the distinct vibe of Soviet deep-cover agents practicing American slang by rote.
*
[ They do say Christians are famous for shooting their own. I guess it’s true.]
I’ve been contemplating the previous post. I think it’s wrong to claim, or hint, that MD is lying about the things he says happened to him and his family. I have been in a position where I have been victimized and when I told people about it my complaints were downplayed, belittled, and sometimes people straight up didn’t believe the abuse happened. I don’t want to do that to anyone else, even if it is Mark Driscoll. I’m willing to believe him. We definitely can’t give Mark Driscoll a pass for his violent threats. But that doesn’t mean we get to say he’s lying about his worry for his family. (In case anyone reading this doesn’t remember me– I had an absolutely bad experience at an Acts 29 church run by MD clones. It affected my faith. I think the whole movement is severely messed up, that they are a breeding ground for abusive authoritarian and prideful “leadership.” I normally have nothing nice to say about them. Please don’t think I’m defending MD as a pastor–I don’t think he even fits the formal definition of one.)
@ Moxie:
I don’t think it totally matters if he’s lying about the harassment or not. The truthfulness of his claims is only one aspect of this conversation.
Driscoll bullies and harasses other people – he can dish it out, but he can’t take it. That is another facet.
As several people have pointed out, other preachers and non preachers, face harassment and abuse (worse than what Driscoll claims happened to him), but they don’t make a big deal out of it, or play a martyr, or use those experiences to hype a book they are selling. That’s another facet to the topic.
@ Headless Unicorn Guy:
It seems like a slightly dishonest way to talk to people about Christ.
He also seems to feel that “real” Christians don’t actually watch pop culture or enjoy it, but some of us do.
I know I do. Not that I fully approve of everything single thing I see in pop culture, but I enjoy some of it.
@ Daisy:
Yep. I see the other facets to this conversation and think that they are valid.
Are you kidding me? He’s not making any threats, which is obvious if you watch the video. There’s plenty offensive about Driscoll without having to concoct nonsense like this.
Moxie wrote:
We have been trying, for two years, to get confirmation of a particular claim of Mark Driscoll. He claims that a man rushed the podium when he was preaching, waving a machete. Now, if that happened in your town, wouldn’t you think it might hit the news? Except, I can’t get any corroboration of such an event. I can’t get anyone to tell me that they witnessed the event.
Now, he has changed his story to two people trying to stab him with knives on separate occasions. I have no doubt that, at times, he may have been threatened but I don’t like playing games.
Once again, I am asking for any evidence of a man who rushed the podium with a machete.
@ dee:
Has anyone come forward, say from the church this happened at, to say, “Yes, I was there and saw it?” I’m thinking that if it happened at least one person would have come here and defended the statement. Two years and no evidence is telling to say the least.
Some years back when Michael Spencer was the Internet Monk he got into some arguments with guys who could be pretty caustic but at the same time really knowing their “stuff” theologically. You weren’t going to win arguments over Scripture against them.
I noted, one day, as Michael was firing back that some of the things he was saying made me think he might be a “wee bit” fragile; enough to actually “break” emotionally if people were not careful.
I sent a collective e-mail to these gentlemen with whom he was arguing and suggested they might consider easing up on Michael due to some possible emotional fragility. I didn’t know these guys personally but they backed off. Now Michael had a tendency to self immolate but he seemed less fragile in the next few weeks.
I have been verbally cruel to people in the past, I’ve been guilty of saying and writing some pretty cutting things as I sought to be funny, at their expense. I haven’t quite got over this tendency though I’m better than I was. I kinda think the internet can bring out the worst in us. We’re mostly anonymous and we can say terrible things from a distance.
Mark Driscoll ( and others found on Wartburg’s posts) are human. If you cut them they bleed. Now most of them are pretty tough but does that give us license as believers to cut on them. I would say no.
The worst letter I ever got was from one of my younger sisters. I was in my 30s and had not had a lot of contact with her since leaving home at 18.
The letter said: “Dear Brother, I need to apologize for hating you all these years” (because I had teased her, a fragile teenage girl at that time.) I had no idea I had scarred her but indeed I had. I want to tell you, her letter of forgiveness crushed me. It had never crossed my mind I was actually hurting her, but I was. She made it possible that we are, today, great friends. But I had to be crushed first.
So that’s my story, I can dish it with the best of them and I can take it too. But I’ve learned, what seems “fun” to me can be very hurtful to others. So I try to be careful, not always successfully.
Bridget wrote:
No. I even called a newspaper to heck for reports. Nothing is coming up.
dee wrote:
Another thing that makes me wonder.
Maybe it’s standard preacher procedure to make up colorful stories like that, because I’ve heard TV preacher (based out of Texas) John Hagee say two or three times over the years on his show that a madman stormed into his church as he was giving a sermon and that the guy shot several bullets at him from within 4 – 5 feet.
Hagee says not a single bullet hit him which a police officer (who had examined the scene) said was very remarkable. Hagee spun this to mean that God sent an angel to protect him supernaturally.
A lot of preachers (as mentioned by HUG on some thread today) like to claim to be retired Navy SEALS even though they are not.
Some preachers are given to making up sensational stories where either they were the hero or were attacked by some gun or knife wielding maniac, and some of these stories have been shown to be false.
@ dee:
P.S. Another thing you can try is to check Google news archives.
If Driscoll’s attack made it into the news, mention of it might be there, in the archives (not current results).
If you go to Google News, do a search for Mark Driscoll’s name.
Once you do that, you can click on the word (link) that says “Search Tools.”
Then Click on
“Search Tools” > “Any Time” > “Archives”
You can then type his name in (and maybe with relevant words such as “machete” or “knife” “attack”) and see what turns up.
It’s been awhile since I used it, but Google News archives used to allow you to search within specified dates, if you did not feel like wading through a billion pages.
So if Driscoll said the attack happened in ‘April 2004,’ you can tell Google news to show reports from only that time, if you like. (At least, they used to let you do that, I don’t know if that feature is still there or not.)
@ Daisy:
I did find this one story – I am guessing this is Driscoll’s church?
‘Angry Queers’ smash church windows in Portland
Betsy
He is making a threat.
@ Seneca:
I don’t like Mark Driscoll. The man is a bully.
@ dee: I have never, ever heard any pastor, anywhere saying such things about his leadership. He is a despicable bully.
I’m not sure MD realizes how small this kind of behaviour makes him look. I mean for starters, no one takes a guy seriously who shoots his mouth off about beating people up. It’s the silent, serious types you have to watch out for. In my neck of the woods we call this “fronting”.
But there is something deeper here, which is the danger of “biblical”. I hear this phrase ad nauseum these days, and it always comes across as reductionistic and ignorant. “Well Nehemiah beat people up” (actually, curse does not mean to cuss out, and beat probably refers to tribunal style corporal punishment meted out via a semblance of law and order) “so I can, too! It’s biblical!”
Not many should desire to be teachers, knowing they shall receive the greater judgement…
Moxie wrote:
In the previous post I was calling into question the timing of Mark Driscoll's remarks about being threatened. Did you not find it odd that his post was published 10 days before the book release?
@ Seneca:
Also, you took one of my comments out of context.
This comment was about a guy in a video, not Mark Driscoll:
“Whatever it is, it made me cringe.”
Seneca said,
I don’t have to know him personally. I’m judging his public comments and public actions, and from those comments and actions, I have arrived at conclusions.
Deb wrote:
It’s the same technique as used by a certain female pop star from the 1980s and 1990s: shortly before the release of every new album, and in the first few months of promoting it, she would say or do something intentionally controversial to get media attention to boost her sales.
Her favorite topics to work up manufactured controversy were sex and religion.
Lately, Miley Cyrus (another pop singer) has been using these same techniques, and she has received a ton of public attention for it. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that her new album is coming out in a few weeks or a couple of months.
The media fall for manufactured controversy every single time.
Betsy wrote:
Firing those two elders as Driscoll did was absolutely awful. There are ways to inflict injury on people that does not involve physical force.
@ Betsy:
Throwing people under the bus, as though they are trash, if they cannot broaden his church/ fame/ coffers seems threatening and abusive to me. Shows he has no regard for people.
He seems fine with chucking people if they don’t prove useful to him and his empire.
Mark Driscoll – There is a pile of dead bodies behind the Mars Hill bus
Deb wrote:
Yes, I think you are definitely right about that. That, plus his Macarthur debacle, plus his hearse stunt. He’s desperately vying for attention. I also think that at least part of the reason he goes on about sex so much is because it’s provocative. It’s just another way that his pride, and possibly greed, manifests. These stunts demonstrate MD puts his own agenda ahead of everything else.
@ Seneca:
Seneca, you forgot one.
“Mark Driscoll uses the Bible as a sock puppet that always agrees with him.”
— Nick Bullebeck
And then here is one from me.
Mark Driscoll is not a Bible teacher. A true Bible teacher would not make the grievous errors in his teachings that Driscoll makes.
Daisy wrote:
Obviously, yes you have.
In most churches with elders, isn’t the pastor accountable to the elders, not the other way around?
Also, if you are looking for evidence of various crimes at MH, can you check police reports/arrests? (I don’t know how public or searchable they are.)
@ Daisy:
Mars Hill Portland, yes. Covered somewhat briefly in the “real estate and Mars Hill” series over at Wenatchee The Hatchet. No sign that any arrests were made in connection to the vandalism and some gays in Portland figured it was really just a false flag operation. Whether it was or not would be difficult, if not impossible, to establish.
srs wrote:
I don’t know how indicative my choices are of overall Christianity, but the last 2 churches I was a member at I would have to say no. The Sovereign Grace denomination did not even have elders. The paid pastors functioned as elders, but they didn’t call them elders until the denomination/C.J. started being questioned about their polity by the likes of Dever. We had a church of 500 with many mature, wise, older men. None of them had any input into the church. A young, wet behind the ears, 25 year old would arrive at our church, fresh out of the PC-9 month training and he was automatically now on the “steering committee” of the church.
The second church I attended was a 9Marks clone of Capitol Hill Baptist. The senior pastor came directly from CHBC where he served as an assistant pastor. In theory they are a church who holds to congregational polity and believe in governing by a plurality of elders. Functionally they operate as a benevolent dictatorship. The senior pastor always gets what he wants. The elder board is comprised of the senior pastor, 3 assistant pastors (any independent voice they may have is stifled by the fact that they are on the payroll) and 4 or 5 elders who have been sufficiently vetted to ensure they are compliant yes-men. I remember one elder who was an intelligent and independent man (He is a captain of an Airbus 380 and flies for Emirates Airlines), not afraid to speak his mind. He was an elder for maybe one year. He was forced out and no announcement was made until several months later when people started openly questioning what happened. The long and short of it was he wanted the church to cut back expenses and stay within their budget and this wasn’t what the senior pastor wanted to do. (I am not sure how he got to be an elder, but the vetting procedure seemed to tighten up after that to ensure no “divisive” men would become elders.) I believe in most congregational churches any member can nominate an individual to stand for election as an elder. Not so with the 9Marks church I attended. The senior pastor selects the man and then the congregation rubber stamps his selection. I believe most congregational churches vote for a pastor they wish to add to staff, not so with the 9Marks church I attended. This church did have a bylaw where the senior pastor faced a congregational vote every 3 years to determine whether they wanted to extend his tenure as pastor. The current pastor changed this policy. It was voted on and passed with minimal dissent. He is now pastor for as long as he wants to remain.
“Lording it over the flock provokes church fights and splits. A domineering spirit in elders provokes mature men of strong minds and independent judgment to leave the church. These very ones would have the greatest potential for future leadership in the assembly. Dictatorial measures make lesser men craven and dependent, stunting their true growth. But it also has its harmful effects on the “lords over God’s heritage.” It makes them egotistical and self serving.” — Pastor Walter J. Chantry
What a classless Nicolatian he is? I was reading a commentary on Korah’s rebellion and Moses’s attitude toward who were challenging his leadership. It really hit me over weekend that many in ministry leadership in this country are not fearing God. Moses feared God enough to allow the challenge by Korah and in knowing that Korah was wrong he fear God enough that He would take care of it. I have heard enough of Mark over the years to know he has a big ego “I” problem.
@ TW:
Interesting commentary…
The first 9Marks Conference held at SEBTS featured Mark Dever and C.J. Mahaney. Mahaney told the students he was "an eight marks guy" because he does not hold to congregational polity. In actuality, there appears to be little distinction between SGM and 9Marks polity.
As all this has played out, I do find it interesting that one of Driscoll's mentors when he got across the log with John MacArthur was C.J. Mahaney…
@ TW: I think it might be interesting to do a joint post between your blog and ours on the selection of “godly” and “impartial” elders in church which claim to be congregational and elder driven. Up for it?
@ Daisy: I think we reported this either on the blog or on twitter.
Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote:
Agreed. Mark likes to talk tough, as if this makes him tough. All mouth and no action and surrounded by protection.
Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist wrote: I have a sneaking suspicion that there are a lot of guys in this movement who like to pretend they are tough but, in reality, would faint if actually engaged.
I find it interesting to note that the blog post I wrote about Mark Driscoll nearly two years ago is by far the most read article on that blog. It’s amazing how many Google searches people do on his misdeeds. http://watchtheshepherd.blogspot.com/2012/03/why-im-not-fan-of-mark-driscoll-real.html
And, it’s also interesting to note that the second most read article on my blog — published only 12 days ago — is the one on Doug Phillips and Vision Forum. (And lots of those visitors come via Wartburg Watch. Thanks, ladies!) What’s with these guys? http://watchtheshepherd.blogspot.com/2013/11/vision-forum-and-friends-turn-your-eyes.html
Wouldn’t it be nice if I could just stick to writing about old hymns? I just can’t seem to shut up about this stuff, though.
Virginia Knowles wrote:
You know what is even more interesting. I have lots of posts on Mark Driscoll. But the post that has the most hits is the one that is an open letter to Grace Driscoll. And when I say the most hits, I mean by exponentially.
Seneca wrote:
But Driscoll has worked hard for 20 years to be a very public teacher and guru of the masses. Are you suggesting we have to know him personally to analyze his VERY PUBLIC teaching and behavior?
And how would anyone get to know such a mega church pastor who is surrounded by security? This was a big problem in some mega churches I was working with. Meeting people at weekend services was all contrived and controlled. And the gullible ones who were honored enough to be able to shake hands and say a few words, walked away thinking they knew the great one initmately.
@ Anon 1: Come to think of it, we follow Jesus who we did k=not know in the flesh. We discuss Abraham, Esther, Paul-all who we do not know. We analyze Luther, Spurgeon, Calvin, Socrates who we did not know. Come to think of it, how many people in the news or in history did any of us know?
dee wrote:
I recall viewing a video where his church claims victory because a nude gentleman’s club (in Seattle) was put out of business and is now being used in some church related activity. The video kind of tied the demise of the nude gentleman’s club with the growth of his church. It’s true the club is out of business, but the reasons it went out of business were well documented and had nothing to do with the church. Therefore, it was a stretch for his church to claim victory. Likewise, it’s quite possible that he may be grossly exaggerating the situations you mentioned to make them appear much more compelling.
@ Mara:
I should try that…
Daisy wrote:
I was thinking this same thing! He reminds of a middle schooler who is rude and catty and constantly creates drama, and then whines and complains “everyone is so mean to me!”
In contrast to Driscoll, you have a guy like Eugene Peterson. An amazing man, husband, pastor, and mentor. He’s relatively famous and yet he’s never really in the news. No controversy. No Huffington Post articles. No big budget conferences every month. He doesn’t let his churches get bigger than a few hundred people because it makes authentic ministry too difficult. His biggest claim to fame is a bible translation (The Message) that only happened because his church family encouraged him to make available to believers everywhere what he was creating for them on Sundays.
For every Driscoll, Mahaney, etc., there are probably hundreds of wonderful men who faithfully love and serve their communities, but who will never receive (and who wouldn’t want!) the attention that the big wig Calvinistas crave.
Daisy wrote:
I was thinking this same thing! He reminds of a middle schooler who is rude and catty and constantly creates drama, and then whines and complains “everyone is so mean to me!”
In contrast to Driscoll, you have a guy like Eugene Peterson. An amazing man, husband, pastor, and mentor. He’s relatively famous and yet he’s never really in the news. No controversy. No Huffington Post articles. No big budget conferences every month. He doesn’t let his churches get bigger than a few hundred people because it makes authentic ministry too difficult. His biggest claim to fame is a bible translation (The Message) that only happened because his church family encouraged him to make available to believers everywhere what he was creating for them on Sundays.
For every Driscoll, Mahaney, etc., there are probably hundreds of wonderful men who faithfully love and serve their communities, but who will never receive (and who wouldn’t want!) the attention that the big wig Calvinistas crave.
@ Mara:
Oh I miss Charis, wish she were commenting here again – great letter too – I have often wondered about Grace Driscoll
@ Mr.H:
and women…
@ elastigirl: yep.
@ Ken: I think you may be correct. I do not doubt that he receives some threats but so do we.His own followers can be particularly virulent. he likes to think it is all about him and his glorious mission. Its not. It is the result of living in a violent culture. Everyone who works in cities: water meter readers, pizza delivery folks, public health nurses, convenient store workers are all at risk of such actions. And, unlike Mark, they do not have a phalanx of protectors to keep them safe.
Mr.H wrote:
Thank you for reminding us of the good guys out there.
It occurs to me that I never answered the question.
No.
@ Nick Bulbeck:
That is why the pathway I suggested (borrowed from several others, and elaborated a bit) is so difficult and long. To return to ministry requires a truly repentant heart and mind in a person actually called by God to ministry, and who mourns what they did, makes restitution, and seeks real change to avoid failing again. It is not cheap restoration, and it is not restoration to the conditions that accompanied the failure. BTW, those who complete the path and stay under the supervision of others can be excellent preachers and excellent counselors, which are two of the major functions of pastors today. What needs to be avoided is the narcissism-feeding CEO/rock star milieu that infects the life of many pastors today.
violence with violence. He’s probably preaching to the prisoners and not getting anywhere.
A note on aggression:
According to criminologists a distinction can be made between ‘proactive’ and ‘reactive aggression. For example, in a paper published in Criminal Justice Behavior in 2009 by Paula Fite, proactive aggression is ‘associated with severe forms of antisocial behavior in childhood and adolescence, including delinquency’ whereas reactive aggression’ appears to be linked with negative emotionality in childhood and adolescence,’ including sadness and depression. Aggression falls on a spectrum between mild are more severe and socialisation, depending on the setting (e.g. stable family; church affiliation) mitigates against physical aggression.
Proactive aggression is goal orientated (a means to achieve certain personal outcomes) and has been linked to psychopathic traits, the person using aggression to achieve their own ends often without regards to the consequences to individuals because there is no empathy (compassion). According to Ramirez (2009) proactive aggressors can sometimes be seen as leaders but their characteristics ‘more strongly related to other problematic behaviours, such as substance abuse, property crime and sexual experience’ mainly in adolescents or young adults.
Criminologists or psychologists have a professional code in which they do not comment on specific individuals unless they have personal contact in a professional setting; Accordingly, the above comments are meant generally and not related to any one individual.
Saw this and had to share it with you guys:
smartdatacollective.com/Risky_Business/text-analytics-tracking-executive-hubris?utm_source=hootsuite&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign%20value=hootsuite_tweets
Daisy wrote:
It’s called “Histrionic Personality Disorder”. Look it up sometime. (And 100 years ago, it was called “Hysteria” and treated with hysterectomy.
I’m familiar with it because in an after-the-fact “psychological autopsy”, my writing partner believes my ex-girlfriend was a “Quiet Histrionic” without the drama-queen behavior but with the inability to emotionally bond with anybody coupled with the desperation to hook up with somebody. (There is also a “chameleleon personality” factor involved, where the Histrionic tries to match the expectations of the guy she’s around.) According to my writing partner, this is most often caused in women by their parents divorcing BEFORE the girl hits puberty.
Not sure how much that fits a Manly Man like Bee Jay Driscoll, but the drama-queen looking for attention-by-uproar is the most common Histrionic behavior. They will get their attention no matter what, and negative attention is still attention. Mixed with Hypermasculinity, this might not be Histrionic per se (Bee Jay doesn’t seem to show much of the other above characteristics), but it’s still a Disorder.
Seneca wrote:
If you knew how much MD was worshiped among the young college Bible school crowd, and how many relationships he’s ruined with his pseudo-Christian teachings, you’d understand why this level of “cutting” as you say, is appropriate. No, demeaning his character is not helpful, BUT Driscoll has earned it, and it’s about time people realize he’s a dangerous person. It is shocking how many of these “Christian” leaders represent most of the symptoms of psychopathy.