Thanks for clarifying the true meaning of Hebrews 13:17 Wade! It made perfect sense when explained as you did. I agree.

Early in your sermon (or “your talk” as Eagle might say:) you said that the KJV “butchered” that verse. But when I compared a number of other translations I have on e_Sword, I found the majority butcher it by using the word obey, authority, orders, etc. I found that disconcerting as few pastors most likely don’t explain it as you did leaving their congregations to believe they are some kind of authority to be obeyed without reservation. See here:

Hebrews 13:17

(ASV) Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit to them:

(ESV) Obey your leaders and submit to them

(GNB) Obey your leaders and follow their orders.

(GW) Obey your leaders, and accept their authority.

(ISV) Continue to obey your leaders and to be submissive to them

(KJV) Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves:

(LITV) Yield to those taking the lead of you, and submit

(MKJV) Yield to those leading you, and be submissive

(NAS77) Obey your leaders, and submit to them;

(NASB) Obey your leaders and submit to them

(RV) Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit to them:

(YLT) Be obedient to those leading you, and be subject

You also mentioned a scenario that might entail some advice such as, “you’re gambling too much,” or “working too hard.” That was followed by “We are nobody’s Holy Spirit.” I assume the former wouldn’t be spoken by a pastor to a member. Am I right? I don’t think a pastor should offer opinions or direction about someone’s personal life unless asked. Do you agree? In other words, the persuasion a pastor provides is done so within the confines of an assembly rather than an intrusion into their personal family life, employment, recreation, etc. Hope that makes sense.

Thanks for all you do in service of the faithful. Thank you, Deb, as well!

Wade, and others who wish to contribute, I also found this to be a very refreshing perspective, and one I would love to wholeheartedly agree with. Yet, just about every teaching I’ve ever heard about the role of pastors differs. As you, or anyone has time, I’d truly appreciate you responding to the claims below, as communicated by John Piper. These are not strictly his ideas, just some he put together in this article. Personally, I do not see membership in this manner, although I do see the idea of “local church” throughout the NT. To me, this is more of a proximity thing, and not the ten different “churches” on one main street.

Excerpts from John Piper’s “How Important is Church Membership?” (Desiring God)
3) Christians Required to Submit to Their Leaders

Church membership is implied in the biblical requirement of Christians to be submitted to a group of church leaders, elders, or pastors. The point here is that without membership, who is it that the New Testament is referring to who must submit to a specific group of leaders? Some kind of expressed willingness or covenant or agreement or commitment (that is, membership) has to precede a person’s submission to a group of leaders.

Consider the way the New Testament talks about the relationship of the church to her leaders.

Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. (Hebrews 13:17)

We ask you, brothers, to respect those who labor among you and are over you (proistamenous humon) in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love because of their work. (1 Thessalonians 5:12–13)

Let the elders who rule well (hoi kalos proestotes presbuteroi) be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. (1 Timothy 5:17)

How is this leadership and this submission going to work if there is no membership defining who has made the commitment to be led and who has been chosen as leaders? If we downplay the importance of membership, it is difficult to see how we could take these commands to submit and to lead seriously and practically.

4) Shepherds Required to Care for Their Flock

Church membership is implied in the way the New Testament requires elders to care for the flock in their charge. Of course elders can extend their love to anyone and everyone, and should, within the limits of their ability. But the question is whether the Bible tells elders that they are to have a special responsibility and care for a certain group—a group of members. Consider Acts 20:28 where Paul tells the elders how to care for their flock.

Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

This verse does not say elders cannot visit unbelievers or those who are not yet members. But it does make clear that their first responsibility is to a particular flock. How are they to know who their flock is? Who are we as elders and pastors responsible for? For whom will we give an account to God?

The way Peter speaks to the elders in 1 Peter 5 is even more clear on this point. Verses 2–3: “Shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge (tov kleron), but being examples to the flock.”

“Those in your charge” (your portion, your lot) implies that the elders knew whom they were responsible for. This is just another way of talking about membership. If a person does not want to be held accountable by a group of elders or be the special focus of the care of a group of elders, they will resist the idea of membership. And they will resist God’s appointed way for them to live and be sustained in their faith.

This is all taken from an article by John Piper as linked below:
http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/sermons/how-important-is-church-membership

The e-Sword electronic Bible is free for the download and comes with a large number of free components. The NASB isn’t free because the Lockman Foundation requires a fee of $25 if I remember correctly. Even though the e-Sword is free, I send a donation occasionally because I so appreciate the work he does with continual updates and improvements.