If you are interested in this subject, you might find this book interesting–it was written by one of my professors at Duke, Kate Bowler. I’ve never looked at Word of Faith churches in quite the same way since.
http://www.amazon.com/Blessed-History-American-Prosperity-Gospel/dp/0199827699/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380984388&sr=8-1&keywords=kate+bowler+blessed

I should add to the above by saying that my old church was the kind with an unacceptably high, 6 figure salary for the lead pastor. The average church member, I can assure you, made no where near the amount of the average pastor in that place. 🙁

Sadly, these types are NOT hard to find. Sigh.

Mandy and Dee– ugh, it’s so blatantly wrong. I don’t know how churches that do this aren’t able to see that. In our church they put a box in the front of the room where people would go up during the offering and put their commitments in.

Man, there is a LOT of people at that Act Like Men conference. every man paid 110 to get in and a big chunk are buying a book and/or a sweater/t shirt/hoodie that says act like men on it… they could give gene simmons lessons on ‘soaking your base.’

Jesus: “The gates of Hell shall not prevail…”

huh?

Jesus: “If I be lifted up, I shall draw all men to myself…”

What?

i.e. Jesus’ finished work is unstoppable. He will sow His seeds, He will raise His crop of wheat, He will harvest His wheat, and place it into His Father’s  barns.  

…imagine that! 

To them that believe in Jesus, God the Father had given the prerogative of becoming the sons of God, even to those who believe upon Jesus’ precious Name….they are granted entrance to become the children of the most high God.  

(He will wipe their every tear.)

WoW!

“I came that they might have life!”
~Jesus

Thank You, Jesus!

Sopy

—

We NEVER hear a tithing sermon where I go. We don’t need them. We have a monthly business meeting for the entire church. We fine comb the budget and everyone knows what is needed, what goes out (including salaries) and everyone has input. The pastor does not even lead the meeting and is a participant only.

When it is handled like this, everyone knows what is needed and how it is spent. They approach the entire thing like grown ups.

In fact, the youth wanted to redo their “space” so we agreed as a congregation to provide the paint and other stuff and they did the work themselves with some adult supervision. Ha! And they will respect it more, too.

I once went to hear a guest speaker at a church. In the front of the church was pamphlets, hopefully not aimed at us visitors, but I took one out of curiosity.

The outside page said: Help us kill the giant! The inside said their giant is debt, and that is why they could not give to missions. But if we (generic we) make a promise as to how much we will regularly give, even an amount we feel we cannot afford right now, God promise to bless us…

To recap: The pew-sitter should promise money he doesn't have, to the congregation. But the church cannot promise money they do not have, to missions. I was more gullible then than now, but I immediately caught that.

must be nice. I pastor a church primarily of blue collar workers, retirees and farmers. I make just enough to put food on the table and gas in the mini van. Not complaining. Thankful to have it. wish these guys would just live simply and contently in their ministries.

Anon 1 wrote:

We NEVER hear a tithing sermon where I go. We don’t need them. We have a monthly business meeting for the entire church. We fine comb the budget and everyone knows what is needed, what goes out (including salaries) and everyone has input. The pastor does not even lead the meeting and is a participant only.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Your church operates pretty much as our former Church did. Everything out in the open. In edition, only the Church Treasurer, Financial officer and Missions treasurer had access and knowledge of specific, individual giving. The pastor(s)
elders, deacons had no access to, or knowledge of, the individual congregates giving practices.These financial officers were elected by the congregation, every three years, with a solemn address to never discuss or share,(even with spouses), who had given what amount. Also, all our financial records were audited yearly by an outside accounting firm.
It worked very well.
When it is handled like this, everyone knows what is needed and how it is spent. They approach the entire thing like grown ups.

In fact, the youth wanted to redo their “space” so we agreed as a congregation to provide the paint and other stuff and they did the work themselves with some adult supervision. Ha! And they will respect it more, too.

There is so much graft, greed and corruption in the church that it’s hard to keep up with. Thanks Dee and Deb for all you do to expose the wolves. Thanks also to Janet Mefferd. She does great work too.

“Your Counter Strategy: Don’t go to these conferences. Demand transparent accounting to the whole church of all costs of visiting speakers, and for that matter transparency about any income your pastor is earning while speaking at other churches and conferences. No pastor earning reasonable fees from away engagements would have a problem with this, assuming of course he is on leave when he speaks and not double dipping.”
-Cultwatch, “How Pastors Get Rich”

I raised this issue with several individuals at my former church. If we as a church hired a pastor for our church doesn’t that imply that he should be preaching the majority of the time at our church? Between guest appearances at other churches, conferences that he would speak at, conference speakers at our church and the assistant pastors preaching there were a lot of services where he wasn’t preaching. I have no problem with that if when we hired him his contract stated that we only expected him to preach “X’ number of times per year. But if we were going to have a pastor that was gaining popularity on the conference circuit perhaps we should have the right to reassess our hiring. Maybe we should name him the traveling preacher, cut his pay (because I imagine he was receiving money to speak elsewhere) and hire a new full-time senior pastor.

Of course when I brought this up people looked at me like I was from another planet. The kinder comments were I seemed “uncharitable.”

When I was a child the pastor preached twice on Sundays, and once on Wednesday. He had no assistants. Times have changed! And then there is this on Luther:

“In the tempestuous days of the Reformation, the centerpiece of Luther’s ministry was his bold biblical preaching. Fred W. Meuser writes: “Martin Luther is famous as reformer, theologian, professor, translator, prodigious author, and polemicist. He is well known as hymn-writer, musician, friend of students, mentor of pastors, and pastor to countless clergy and laity. Yet he saw himself first of all as a preacher.” Luther gave himself tirelessly to this priority. E. Theodore Bachmann adds, “The church … is for Luther ‘not a pen-house, but a mouth-house,’ in which the living Word is proclaimed.” Indeed, Luther wrote voluminously, yet he never put his written works on the same level with his proclamation of God’s Word. He maintained, “Christ Himself wrote nothing, nor did He give command to write, but to preach orally.” By this stance, Luther strongly underscored the primacy of the pulpit.

Luther’s commitment to the pulpit can be clearly seen in his preaching activities. On most Sundays, he preached two or three times, and, by his own admission, “Often I preached four sermons on one day.” In addition, he usually preached at least two to three times during the week, sometimes more. On religious holidays, he preached twice a day. His relentless drive in this work is seen in the staggering number of sermons he preached—seven thousand between 1510 and 1546. That is almost two hundred sermons per year, or four per week. Throughout his ministry, Luther preached, on average, one sermon every two days. Some twenty-three hundred of these biblical expositions survive in written form.”
http://www.ligonier.org/blog/martin-luther-7000-sermons/

Being a pastor is one of the toughest jobs there is anywhere, and  today is the perfect opportunity to pray and encourage the church leaders in your life! 

    Take them out to lunch, send them a card, bake them some pastries, some cookies—whatever you do, just remember to tell your them how much you appreciate the hard work they are doing for you, your church, and the community at large that they serve, all in the name of Jesus Christ, to the glory of God!

Completely off thread.
Oct 6,!969, a bomb exploded in Haymarket Square in Chicago. I googled and got nothing.Why is something so small erased? And HUG where were you during the days of rage? I was the woman in moire driving a blue Mustang.

Thanks Deb. Maybe I will learn to use a computer. If you get this way, there are ribs.Some say I pour a mean cup of tea. The bomb was a birthday present I hated. And I pray for the stupid boy who set it Every year I check.

“Thanks for the info! I love the Act Like Jesus conference idea. Does that mean women can attend since we are also made in the image of God?”

The simplest solution is usually the best solution. Be a better man? Jesus is the best man, not chuck Norris or what have, so just cut to the chase and Act like Jesus. ie risk everything for category-shattering self-sacrificial love. All those barriers he shattered with the woman at the well–a man actually acting as if a woman is endlessly valuable, just because a good God made her with great care, talk about singing your death warrant… Don’t have the details worked out , but I’m haunted by Colossians lately, so at the Act Like Jesus conference, I’m thinking we’d just read that bit where it says : Above all things (ALL meaning nothing can ever supercede this) clothe yourself in love, for this binds the world together in perfect harmony.’ then we’d go to a Chinese buffet and go home.

Earlier in the week, JMac had phoned in to a Christian radio station in Buffalo to promote the Hamilton event (Hamilton doesn’t have a Christian radio station.) He said he can’t wait to bring Act Like Men to Toronto Canada…which is two big Canadian pet peeves in one. We HATE it when American celebrities say, we just love rocking out it Toronto Canada! or, Saskatoon Canada! It’s Toronto Ontario, and Saskatoon Saskatchewan. If you mentally picture the reverse, it gets close to the time Spinal Tap played ‘Springfield USA’ on the Simpsons. Also, Hamilton is not Toronto. There’s thousands of miles of not-Toronto, but since that’s the only place people know, if a place is half a day from Toronto, they say, ‘an hour from Toronto,’ and a city an hour away from Toronto becomes ‘Toronto.’ Then JM said he is not personally financially benefiting at all from coming to Hamilton—he is just doing it because he is fired up about getting men fired up etc. Yes, I know. So I thought, does he mean that in the sense of, James Macdonald didn’t make that money, Walk in the Word did, wink wink. But I saw all these Act like Men trademark clothing items being sold—who’s holding that trademark? And, also, people were buying copies of his book…

If you’d been there and driven north for 10 minutes, you’d hit Lake Ontario. If you’d been there and driven South for about an hour, you’d hit Lake Erie (western part of the Niagara Peninsula.)

Going on at the same time, just on the other side of Jackson Square, the mall that Copps Coliseum is attached to, was a comic book convention called Hammercon, The Hammer being Hamilton’s nickname. So I had the novel experience of walking through the Jackson Square food court, bumping into a Stepford Husband with an Act like Men trademark T shirt, turning around and bumping into a Ferengi, or a Power Ranger. Both events drew big crowds, but Act like Men had a much larger one, even though their tickets were much more expensive.

I couldn’t care less what any of the Act like men speakers had to say, but what I did find extremely revelatory was watching the crowd pour out of Copps for the lunch break…those long lines at the shwarma places and the a and w…. Can I say this clearly, here goes, I was intrigued by the similarities among the satisfied customers leaving Hammercon and those leaving ALM. Both groups got a boost from the confirmation bias that comes from being in a room full of thousands of people who think the same way you do. Both were a marketer’s dream: a self-selecting crowd of true believers who show up with the intention of spending some money. Both leave fired up trademark about that thing that happens to fire them up. Both leave with a souvenir, an action figure, a copy of Vertical Church… maybe because I don’t like crowds, I find their hypnotic power an interesting study…

So JM said he was fired up about getting men fired up, and I heard a lot of attendees saying they left feeling fired up (echo?) so…mission accomplished. Fired up, they said, to go home and be better husbands, for example. And I’m like, dude, what are you waiting for? Skip the Act like Men show, take your wife to see Gravity, pronto!

Seeing Act Like Men trademark clothing on a woman certainly gave the thing a whole other meaning, that was very interesting. An act like men trademark shirt on a guy works as an injoke to other guys about confirming their picture of manhood, and by extension womanhood, in I’d say harmful ways. Seeing it on a rather tough looking woman sent the message of, come on guys! You’re in your forties and you’re still obsessed with ‘cool’ and faux hawks etc? What a joke… I can feel her pain. You look at a picture of Robert Mitchum, or Sinantra, and whether he’s in his 30’s or his 80’s, it’s suit and tie and hat, smile and a joke. You’re an adult, you get on with it. Back in the day, a man who dressed up like a boy would be locked up as the village idiot. Millions of men who dedicate their time to repurchasing all their old toys that mom threw away, wondering about what it really means to be a man—grim business… don’t see what it has to do with the Christian story, it’s too bad they have to hitch their circus wagon to our Rescuer, who canceled all our debts by nailing them to a tree, turned our accuser and his minions into a public laughingstock, liberating us from ‘this present evil age’ so we can get past all this nonsense…Act Like Humans by acting like the Best Human our Rescuer.

Anon 1 wrote:

“
As to your comment above. The last SBC convention I went to I was amazed that I could pick out of the crowd of mostly young men the CJ followers, the Driscoll followers and so on. Russ Moore, wearing elevator shoes, traveled around with an entourage of young men all texting one another and jumping up and down laughing. (Now he is in Washington DC) They are so obvious. It really is cult of personality out there in Christendom.

Could you expound on this comment?

Joy, Not sure how to expound beyond Mickey Mouse T-shirts with gelled pointed hair and shaved heads in polo shirts.

I have emotional scars from my time in CLC when they had the big push for the building funds. I gave with what I thought was faith at the time, but looking back, there was a lot of coercion. Fast forward to today. A few weeks ago, my pastor rolled out a campaign for the church that included a few things, starting with us developing more devoted and spirit-led lives, to increasing the space for children’s ministry. Well, the cause for more space for the kids is something that’s needed. However, I don’t have children, and I am not particularly interested in hearing a sermon about generosity (next week) and a church service in which everyone submits their pledges (the week after). That said, I do like my church and consistently benefit from the sermons and worship. I am not heavily involved because of my crazy schedule. However, I did enjoy a few activities and serving opportunities I participated in this past summer. I feel so torn and still somewhat spiritually broken from my experiences at CLC and other churches. Sometimes I don’t know what I believe or what to commit to. This goes deeper than money. My current church is helping heal me in some ways, so it is hard to have this come up. I am thinking of not attending the two meetings; however, I will miss the spiritual encouragement during those times and it really doesn’t solve the underlying problem. Anyone have similar struggles? Thoughts?

@ Anon 1:

makes me think of jr. high in 1980 — not girls, but boys. the big comb in your back pocket, and then at the dances angels flight pants, shiny shirts with big collars for the boys. anyone else remember these days?

but not high school — teen agers were sensible, secure, and individualized enough not to adopt such copycat style. they of course did many other stupid things — but not this extreme identifying with one person and copycat style & behavior (such as with the Christian men described). it’s weird.

such a ridiculous commentary on these Christian men. if they only knew.

come to think of it, jr. high never even went this far.

@ Former CLC’er:

“I also have a lot of difficulty trusting other people and not feeling like I”m going to be swallowed up into an agenda”
++++++++++++++

nothing wrong with staying on the fringes. you can create your own opportunities (instead of the dreaded being agenda-ed). Make your own agenda instead. Find a few trusted friends and volunteer at a soup kitchen one evening. Collect some blankets, coats, socks and find some homeless people on a cold night.

mere ideas…. I apologize if this is sounding preachy. I don’t mean it to. I just really see how being productive for God is simply not dependent on the institutional church machine. bypass being a cog in the church wheel. make our own decisions. our own plans. our own creativity. our own ingenuity.

Incidentally, Proverbs 22 has this to say about the spiritual pyramid marketing schemes that are described in the post:

One who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and one who gives gifts to the rich — both come to poverty.

Pyramid churches tend to ignore the poor rather than oppress them outright. But Jesus taught a parable about rich men who ignore the poor at their gates.

elastigirl wrote:

come to think of it, jr. high never even went this far.

That is what scares me about it all. They are adults emulating their hero and call it following Christ. I cannot tell you how many young guys around here in ministry (20-30ish) emulate Piper in speaking style and wording. If you have heard enough Piper, you can pick it up quickly.

So what happens when that dries up? Who are they? Except for the damage they are doing to so many people, we should pity them for the lack of individual identity. .

elastigirl wrote:

I apologize if this is sounding preachy. I don’t mean it to. I just really see how being productive for God is simply not dependent on the institutional church machine. bypass being a cog in the church wheel. make our own decisions. our own plans. our own creativity. our own ingenuity.

Amen to that.

As I look back at my life and get ready to wind it up, the thing that comforts me and comes to mind again and again is one year I spent as a public health nurse tromping around with my little blue uniform and black medical bag in a seriously difficult section of Louisville I think, even in retrospect, that Himself rode around in that car with me and walked through those alleys with me as We tried to track down mothers and babies who had disappeared from well baby clinic rolls. As I sit here and they irradiate the mess out of my post-up cancer site I think/feel/perceive at some primal level that He and I and those little babies are inextricably linked in something eternal and good.

And that had nothing at all to do with churchianity. And I did do churchianity for a right long time; attended meetings, played my violin in tent revivals (no kidding), debated doctrine around the kitchen table after church–none of that comforts me or seems important at this point. There is just Himself and me and those poor little babies.

Whoever you are listen to elastigirl and do not let the church so consume you that you miss this sort of opportunity.

Anon 1 wrote:

That is what scares me about it all. They are adults emulating their hero and call it following Christ. I cannot tell you how many young guys around here in ministry (20-30ish) emulate Piper in speaking style and wording.

Or the Mahaney fanboys who shave their heads and chuckle Humbly.

Or the one reported on this blog with the fedora and cigars, just like his Man-o-GAWD idol. (I don’t remember which one he was imitating — the guy with that Cult in Moscow, ID?)

Or the Objectivists who took up smoking to be like Ayn Rand back in her heyday.

kansaswheat wrote:

Oct 6,!969, a bomb exploded in Haymarket Square in Chicago. I googled and got nothing.Why is something so small erased? And HUG where were you during the days of rage?

I smell CONSPIRACY THEORY…

@ Nancy:

Nancy, thank you for sharing that with us. I am so glad you came to TWW.

Oh my as I look back and see the real depth of life did not happen in most of the institutions. It took me a while to figure that out.

Former CLC’er wrote:

Anyone have similar struggles? Thoughts?

Exercise the G & G option – Go but don’t Give. Or the S & S option – Show up but don’t Subsidize. Or the A & A option – Attend but don’t Assist. You get the idea. These fund raising programs are designed to apply peer pressure on you and guilt you into giving. Kind of like sitting through a presentation for a time share. Just don’t allow yourself to be pressured into doing something you don’t wish to do. What you give is a personal matter between you and God. If the leaders are offended by your lack of buy-in to their program, or if they treat you differently you may want to find a different church.

This comment is a little off-topic but indirectly related….I am wondering why some churches use the “satellite” concept. We have a number in my area. I guess I just think that biblically a pastor should KNOW his congregation…that he should develop relationships with them. I think it is wierd that you just look at a screen with someone you do not know preaching. Is this just a money thing..cheaper way to have MORE people give money every week without paying a seperate pastor???? Is this a Mars Hill concept?????

@ Headless Unicorn Guy:

Actually, on 10/6/1969, someone (probably) from the Weathermen set a bomb that blew up a monument to policemen from the Haymarket riots of May 4, 1886 in which a bomb was thrown at policemen who were there in force in anticipation that a peaceful labor demonstration would turn violent.

In fact (part 2 of my post at 4:05 pm), many pastors have already been replaced by TV and radio pastors.

Just a quick non-scientific study:
If you do a Google Trends search word analysis comparing the words Bible study, Sunday school, Christian TV and Christian radio, you’ll see that the first two have dropped off dramatically since 2005, but searches for the latter two continue steady.

@TW – I almost emailed the pastor to tell him where I”m at, but I was afraid of his response. I think he would have the response I’d want, but I am not ready to attend church elsewhere, so I didn’t want to find out if he’d have a response I didn’t like. The only close interaction I’ve had with leaders has been with the worship pastor, and he has been very accepting and gracious. But one never knows.

Oh, did I mention that clergy get to exclude mortgage interest from income (doesn’t even go into their W-2) but ALSO may itemize the amount. It’s a double tax deduction, you use the same expense twice to reduce taxes.

Pretty neat, huh?

@ William:
Actually, it is illegal to deduct from income money that is not taxable under the code, that is, income not otherwise subject to tax. That is, btw, a criminal offense, because one has to do it intentionally, against specific contrary instructions for the relevant forms.

Thanks so much for the link to Cultwatch. I also read their article, “Attack of the Super Apostles.” Absolutely describes my former cult to a tee.

We were required to give a minimum of 10% to our “church.” It was considered a “point of fellowship.” If you didn’t give at least 10% you were placed “under discipline.” Guess that’s part of the reason the ministers are driving new cars every year and take vacations on church properties that the rest of the congregation are not privy to. I feel like such a fool. From now on my giving will go to a worthy charity. I realize that there are honest, caring ministers out there, but I’ve just been too burned.

@an attorney

My description using “double” was technically incorrect but clergy can take the HA and also deduct mortgage interest:

Can ministers deduct mortgage interest on their homes if they have a housing allowance?
Yes. Ministers who itemize deductions and have a housing allowance may deduct mortgage interest and real estate taxes. Sometimes this is mistakenly called a “double deduction.” But a housing allowance is an exclusion from income, and mortgage interest is a deduction.

The above from GuideStone.org

And, there is a legal challenge to the HA currently.

Mega-Church Founder Kong Hee Embezzles Almost $20 Million To Finance Pop-Singer Wife’s Career

A Christian evangelical pastor in Singapore is accused of embezzling more than $19 million in church funds to finance his wife’s career as a pop singer, all under the guise of spreading God’s message through her music.

will f wrote:

it gets close to the time Spinal Tap played ‘Springfield USA’ on the Simpsons. Also, Hamilton is not Toronto. There’s thousands of miles of not-Toronto, but since that’s the only place people know, if a place is half a day from Toronto, they say, ‘an hour from Toronto,’ and a city an hour away from Toronto becomes ‘Toronto.’

Well, I had the same experience growing up as a military brat.

Every time we moved (we got transferred due to the military), the new folks in the new town would want to know where I just moved from.

If I said, “We just moved from Manchester, Missouri,” nobody knew where that was. I would get blank looks.

So I skipped the Manchester and went straight for “St. Louis, MO” -because St. Louis is very close by. Most Americans have heard of St. Louis and might even be able to visualize where it is on a map of the USA.

Ditto with all the other cities I ever lived in growing up. Nobody ever knew the name of the city I lived in, so I’d have to specify the next biggest one right by.

Americans don’t have a clue where most cities are, so you have to give them the big name, famous city that is within a 10 to 30 minute driving distance.

@Caleb:

I too get frustrated with Toronto Canada etc.

Mark Driscoll was interviewed by the ‘guest’ co-host at 100 Huntley Street, and he couldn’t even get the name of the show correct. (Driscoll corrected his error later)
The guest host was a Harvest Group pastor from Oakville. (For those that don’t know, Oakville is one of the richest communities in Canada)

Like I mentioned below my post, would anyone be surprised if this pastor did a softball interview?

So, Greg Laurie said they had 8 thousand in Hamilton. Here are the rental fees for Copps Colliseum:

“A minimum of $12,000 or 15% of gross ticket revenue, less admission sales taxes.
(whichever is greater)”

The Hamilton Ontario attendees paid at the door, I don’t know if the spectators could do an early bird registration.
8 thousand at $109.00 each, $69.00 group rate (5 guys or more), pastors free.

The GTA/401 corridor is a gold mine for these conferences. They don’t hold these ‘conferences’ in Summerside PEI, or Brockville Ontario or Medicine Hat Alberta, eh?

Still, given the # of Christians living from say, London to Pickering, 8 thousand is a fraction. It’s too bad the Driscoll type fan boys pay so much to the layers of ‘ministries’ the Calvinista celebrities present at these affairs to keep them coming back.

Thanks for your account Caleb, it’s refreshing to have your eye witness report.

Yeah, I wasn’t able to go. Thanks for filling us in will f. At least downtown Hamilton businesses benefitted.

I wonder if they picked Hamilton because of the growth in Harvest branches in Ontario recently? There are a bunch. It seems that the people here are willing to sacrifice autonomy and integrity for the start up money. And then there are the fanboys, a lot of whom I think are from the suburban, exurban, and rural areas outside of Toronto, downtown Hamilton, etc.

@ Former CLC’er:

Former CLC’er

Sorry to hear about the abuse you’ve gone though…
“I feel so torn and still somewhat spiritually broken from my experiences at CLC and other churches. Sometimes I don’t know what I believe or what to commit to.”

“Anyone have similar struggles? Thoughts?”

Yup – Been there – Wound up leaving “The Religious System” – after much Pain, Tears, and “Spiritual Abuse” – I had many doubts and fears – NO internet then. – NO friends who understood – Felt all alone…

Tried finding another Place – another Group – But – Way too much anxiety, and feeling like a hypocrite – Trying to fit in – Trying to “Play the game” – You Know – Do NOT make waves – Do NOT ask hard questions – When you see something wrong just keep smiling and shut-up. – Or you get the “Left Foot of Fellowship.”

I could NOT do the Sunday Mourning Ritual anymore…
Knowing what goes on the rest of the week – Behind closed doors…
Could NOT listen to another Sermon…

It was really tough for the first few years – Today I’m thankful for being alone in the wilderness…
You have NO place to go – but to Jesus – You get to know Jesus for yourself… 🙂

And the Freedom in Christ is wonderful… 😉

2 Cor 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Rom 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

@ elastigirl:

I just loved your whole reply to – Former CLC’er:

“God is much, much bigger than this church (or any church).”

“Free yourself. God’s not going anywhere.”

Victorious

Seems “The Religious System” has convinced us sheeppies to stay in one place.
And listen to the same paid professianal pastor preaching – Weak after Weak…
It becomes a habit – An addiction – that is very hard to break from…

And we wind up in bondage to The System and those telling us – We need to be in one place.

When you believe the lie you start to die…

And we do NOT ask Jesus where He wants us today. Where His wind is blowing us… 😉

John 3:7-8 NASB
Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
The *wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, (*Wind- Greek, Pneuma = Spirit)
but do not know where it comes from and where it is going;
so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Liberty… To Follow Jesus…

John 10:27
My Sheep – Hear MY Voice – and – I know them – and – They Follow Me.

Gal 5:1
Stand fast therefore in THE LIBERTY wherewith Christ hath made us FREE,
and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

@ A. Amos Love:

‘tchaw…. as it taupe, black, big lights, big screen, big music, big sound, and coiffed (so as to look not-coiffed) men on a stage is a prerequisite for God.

will f:

Please accept my apology, it was rude to get your name wrong.

I was reading Nathan Colquhoun, a blogging pastor from Sarnia and thinking about the Hamilton crowd:

“Perhaps the evangelical church has fallen into this trap that attendance equals participation. Perhaps we as Christians have allowed showing up to observe someone on stage as an act of discipleship.”

Daisy wrote:

Spiritual prostate exams??

Does he mean the “Dr Jellyfinger” DRE or the ultrasound dildo with the biopsy needles?

Demon possession for not tithing? As if his previous warnings that your spouse will dump you (if you have one) and you will go broke if you don’t tithe were not enough.

More like he’ll Hex you with Demons if you don’t fork over the $$$$$.

Isn’t that called “Witchcraft”?