EChurch@Wartburg – 7.14.13

Welcome to a Gathering of EChurch@Wartburg Cross

Here Is Our Order of Worship

If you are new to EChurch, please click on this link for an explanation​

A Prayer by Dag Hammarskjøld link

You who are over us,
You who are one of us,
You who are also within us,
May all see you-in me also.
May I prepare the way for you,
May I thank you for all
that shall fall to my lot,
May I also not forget the needs of others.
Give me a pure heart-that I may see you.
A humble heart-that I may hear you,
A heart of love-that I may serve you,
A heart of faith-that I may abide in you.


A Prayer by St Augustine link

Lord, I have only lately learnt to love you,
Your beauty ever changing, ancient yet new!
You were always within me, yet I couldn’t find you.
I searched for things outside of myself,
Instead of praying to you for guidance.
I searched for you in the world and I came to see
I came to realize that you were with me all the time,
All the things of your creation.
But I was not with you …..
You called me;
You touched me,
And now I am moved with love of your peace.

Scripture Reading:  Hebrews 13:7 (NASB Bible Gateway)

Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith.

A Prayer by Dietrich Bonhoeffer link

God of the day and of the night, 
in me there is darkness, but with you there is light. 
I am alone, but you will not leave me.
I am weak, but you will come to my help.
I am restless, but you are my peace. 
I am in haste, but you are the God of infinite patience. 
I am confused and lost, 
but you are eternal wisdom and you direct my path;
now and for ever. 


BenedictionHebrews 13:20, 21

Now may the God of peace,
who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus,
that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will,
and may he work in us what is pleasing to him,
through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever.


EChurch@Wartburg – 7.14.13 — 38 Comments

  1. I just want to say unequivocally that this is the most important sermon for this generation in American Evangelicalism.
    Wade, thank you for your heart for God and courage to speak the truth in love.

  2. Oh boy…you guys are making it hard for me to wait until tomorrow to listen… Maybe I’ll have to forego tradition and go to church this evening. 🙂

  3. Pam,

    Thanks for your kind words. Someone once told me “Greek is a little bit like underwear – great for support but its rude to show it off.” I tend to agree with that sentiment. I believe knowing English is sufficient to properly interpret the Bible. There are enough study tools to determine the proper interpretation of a passage without any knowledge of Greek. A simple interlinear or concordance will show what I’m saying in this passage is on target.

    I think the mistake many modern evangelicals make is that we don’t think for ourselves. We let somebody else do the thinking for us. Authoritarianism in the Christian church is a HUGE issue – bigger than just about any other issue. Jesus said the greatest among His people will be servants, but for some reason, modern evangelicals think the greatest among us is the one served.

  4. Wade Burleson wrote:

    I think the mistake many modern evangelicals make is that we don’t think for ourselves. We let somebody else do the thinking for us. Authoritarianism in the Christian church is a HUGE issue – bigger than just about any other issue.

    So very true, Wade. After listening to your edifying (as usual) sermon, I was going to ask why we’re not seeing more “Nikes running” out the doors of our churches, but you’ve answered that question here. If the sheep refuses to think for themselves and study the Word, they will be at the mercy of hireling shepherds. We’ve seen the Shepherding movement of the 70’s; the New Apostolic Reformation; Jim Jones, Jack Shapp-type churches, 9 Marks, SGM, etc. all power and authority focused groups.

    I’d seen that Jim Stanridge video a couple times before and even though most seemed appalled at his arrogance, still others defended his right to scold, humiliate, and vent his anger on his congregation.

    I applaud you for advising believers that should they encounter this type of authority, they should put on their Nikes and run. Oh how I hope they will.

    Thank you for rightly dividing the Word in respect to the word authority “over” as belonging to only one Shepherd, Jesus.

    As always, I’m thanking the Lord for you all and for EChurch.

  5. This was the first time I listened to Wade Burleson. I must say I really liked what he said. I want to go to his church! What a breath of fresh air!

  6. Pastor Wade, I can't thank you enough for this word. I belonged to a church that publicly rebuked and shamed congregants in both the large Sunday services and in small home groups. The fear it has instilled is very difficult to overcome. I read somewhere that the man who was told he wasn't worth .15 no longer attends church. I don't blame him. I wish I'd put my Nikes on a lot sooner than I did. And thank you for addressing the way this servanthood should also operate in our homes. Our former church was very patriarchal. Though my husband never treated me that way, he faced a lot of pressure from the ministry to function that way. It created a lot of anxiety for us both. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.

  7. Thank you, Wade, for this sermon. Powerful stuff. I’m going to put the video on both of my blogs so people will see it.

    When you were discussing the word obey, what immediately came to mind was “Children obey your parents in the Lord for this is right” (Eph. 6:1). I looked up the interlinear online and it gave five examples of hypakouete. Two of them referred to children and three of them referred to slaves. How does this fit with what you were saying about fathers leading with giftedness, strength of character, and gentle persuasion? I can see someone pointing to these verses and say that the Bible does teach that children are to obey their parents who rule over them as the same word is used for slaves. (Sorry, makes me sick to even type that.)

    I appreciate the picture of parents (not just fathers!) leading their children through strength of character and gentle persuasion. It seems that combination as well as witnessing their parents using their giftedness in service to Christ would be a powerful example of discipleship. I admit that I have found it challenging to feel like I am effectively passing on my faith to my child. I’ve discipled woman in campus ministry, led Bible studies, etc. so I’m very familiar with the discipleship model and believe it can be done effectively. I have found it challenging to translate those experiences into parenting.

    Would appreciate any thoughts you have! 🙂

  8. Sallie,

    “Children obey your parents, “ is translated from hypakouete, and means, “listen to.” For example, the root of the Greek word forms our English word “acoustics.” As you rightly stated, the New Testament uses this word in conjunction with slaves/masters (Eph 6:5; Col 3:22) and children/parents (Eph 6:1; Col 3:20).

    Parents, however, are not to “provoke children to wrath” (verse 4). To provoke to wrath means literally to irritate, to cause adverse reaction. A good illustration of “provoking to wrath” is the feeling of one gets when rubbing salt into an open wound. The idea is that parents must not deal with their children in such a way that they irritate their children wrongfully. In other words, the emphasis is on the child listening well and the parent communicating well.

    If a parent is angry, demeaning, and abusive, the child is under no more obligation to listen to the parent than a wife must listen to an abusive husband. Forced obedience is never an admonition in Scripture. The old timers knew the tendency of parents to sin in terms of their relationship to their children, so some encouragement was given to “patiently bear with their (parents) weaknesses and infirmities”(Heidelberg Catechism), but it is always honoring to God to remove children OUT of abusive homes.

    So, I stand by what I said in the message as it pertains to fathers and children: “Fathers, lead your children through your giftedness, your strength of character and your gentle persuasion, an in so doing, you will not unnecessarily irritate your children and prod them to anger. Likewise, children, listen to your fathers who communicate with you in such a manner for they are showing you the ways of the Lord.”

    If someone objects, “But KIDS are to OBEY their PARENTS like SLAVES are to OBEY their MASTERS.” Nope. The soul of a child and the soul of a slave is as important to God as the soul of a parent and the soul of a master. Culture may wrongly place authority in the hands of masters “over” slaves” as it did in the days of Paul and Paul’s encouragement to slaves was to “listen” to their masters who were loving, kind and encouraging (see Titus), but otherwise, Christians are to work to change culture to do away with slavery. Likewise, a nation’s culture may treat children like slaves (sexual abuse, physical abuse, child labor, etc…), and Christians will do everything in their power to abolish such a culture.


    Hope that helps a little.

  9. BeenThereDoneThat and TW,

    Thanks for your encouraging words. It’s really wonderful for me to know that there are Christian people who enjoy the simple teaching of God’s word. Too often, it seems churches and people want more Cirque Du Soleil than they do grace and truth.

  10. Thank you Wade for this encouraging and freeing message. The video you shared of the verbally abusive pastor was heartbreaking & a bit shocking. I came out of SGM where the spiritual abuse was not so in-your-face but very subtle and so had that effect of the frog boiling to death because he didn’t notice the heat of the water being turned up in tiny increments over time. THANK YOU for going against the grain of popular (American) Christian leadership and culture to address this issue. Thank you for saying, “ONLY Jesus rules your soul.” Yes, amen.

  11. Pastor Burleson,
    I couldn’t help but get a hearty laugh about shirts tucked into shorts! When my grandson was out for a visit a couple of years back, he and his grandma made sure that grandpap’s shirt was out and that he had a stylish pair of flip-flops for our trip to King’s Harbour (Redondo Beach).

    It’s easy attack the preacher in the video and hold him up to ridicule, but I’ll do no such thing. I don’t believe that the has a mean bone in his body. He’s only reacting to the me-me-me mentality that has gotten progressively worse since the world has moved on.

  12. Oh wow, Wade, I was so happy that you were going to preach on this today, and you exceeded my expectations. I am finding it more difficult to respect the authority teachers because it seems that they refuse to take a second look at the old scriptures, especially if the suggestion is coming from a woman. You have removed any doubt in my mind today that I may have been interpreting to my own bias, and you taught me more than I knew before. Thank you for expressing your confidence in being right in this matter.

  13. In case Wade might still read here… there is another authority mentioned where evidently the word “over” is used and that’s in 1 Cor. 7:4. Far as I know it’s the only place where that type of authority is used in marriage and it’s mutual. Both wife and husband have the same authority in the area of sexual intimacy.

  14. Wade, agree that this is the most urgently needed message in evangelicalism today! I have shared it both on FB and on my blog today. It has been interesting through the years to see how so many people, when talking about relationships within the body of Christ, always want to begin with the subject of authority. Thank you for the Greek lesson and your example to us as well.

  15. Wade, thank you for giving such beautiful clarification to the Hebrews 13 passage and for reminding the Church of Jesus Christ that there is only One Kingdom, ONE KING, and ALL of us within that Kingdom are servants; servants of the King and servants to one another. I obey only ONE Master and only Jesus rules my soul!!! Amen and Amen!!!

  16. Wade, it is sooo fun when I am surprised by your sermons! 😉

    Clear and thoroughly necessary. Thanks!

  17. Great message, Wade. Thanks for speaking up about how the Scripture can be misused. The poor teachings about Scripture are what lead to so much of the spiritual abuse we see in the church.

  18. Wade, I’m late to the ballgame on this and just saw the video today. Wow. What a great message. Heb 13:17 was read to me multiple times by an elder as I questioned the firing of my friend and staff employee at my former church (who sued me). When reading Hebrews, I’d skim right pass that passage because it brought back all of those bad memories of a leader using his authority inappropriately.

    I heard you mention the husb/wife relationship in the video. I already know what the male naysayers are going to say about this, they will bring up verses like: Gen 3:16, Eph 5:22-24, 1 Peter 3:5-6, 1 Cor 11:3.

    Do you have insight on how these verses line up with regard to headship when referring to husbands/wives and families? Is headship the same as “ruling over?” I know a lot of men who might want to duke it out with you over this – lol. I’ve heard men even say that they are held accountable before God for their wife and family. I’m not sure where this verse is located. Do you?

    BTW, are you getting any hate mail over this? I’m asking because I sure get some guys all fired up when I post stuff like this on my blog. 🙂 I must say, it does generate a lot of response and blog hits, but that’s not the way I’d like to get blog hits. Oh well.

  19. Julie Anne,

    Appreciate your ministry and all you do for His kingdom. I just returned to Enid and will try to answer your questions. The answers are “off the top” of my head, without an reference materials–and most of all, while seated at a table watching the British Open–so don’t have great expectations! 🙂

    Genesis 3:16 – “Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.”

    This is a CURSE. Any preacher who presents it as normal, and a blessing from God is so confused he ought to consider leaving the ministry. The result of sin is the desire of the woman to control her husband (the word “desire” is used in the very next chapter to describe sin when God says to Cain “sin is crouching at the door and its desire is for you”) and the desire of the man to rule over and dominate his wife. In other words, in cursed, sinful relationships people try to rule, dominate, and control other people. In grace-full relationships people flip the order and work to serve one another.

    Ephesians 5:22-24 – these verses form ILLUSTRATIONS of what the Apostle has already spoken about in the previous versions. Every Christian is to have love for one another and EVERY Christian is to submit to one another. Christian men are to be submissive to Christian women, and Christian women are to love Christian men and vice-versa. The ILLUSTRATIONS just pull out women have a spirit of submission to men because in Ephesus particularly, women dominated and ruled men because of the cult of Artemis (see my article entitled ‘Artemis and the End of Us: Evangelical Errors Regarding Women). Finally, the word “head” in this text is at the heart of the issue. How is man “the head” of the woman? In the same manner the head of the river is the “source” of the river. Head does not mean control or authority, but source and life. Eve came from man (Adam), not the reverse (as the cult of Artemis taught) that man came from woman.

    I Peter 3:5-6 – Again, this text speaks of a spirit of humility, and a desire to be a servant. Every godly woman should focus on the internal attitude of servanthood rather than the dress and apparel in fine cloth and pearls. No Christian should ever resist the teaching that women should have this kind of spirit. THE PROBLEM IS WHEN MEN ARE EXCLUDED FROM BEING TAUGHT THEY SHOULD POSSESS THE SAME TYPE OF SPIRIT (sorry for the caps). If I ever sense men are focusing on the spirit of submission in women to the exclusion of a focus of a spirit of submission (servanthood) in men, then it is time to camp on teaching men that there is no difference in the attitude and spirit of followers of Christ. All (men and women) are to be loving, servant-oriented, gentle, humble, with selfless spirit.

    I Corinthians 11:3 – Again, I believe (with all my heart) “head” does not mean rule, authority, power or control but it does mean life and source. The entire idea is men should love, respect, honor and support women in the same manner God loves, respects, honors and supports them. When somebody makes “rule, power and control” the issue, it is a sign that ICHABOD is written over the doorpost of the home or church because the emphasis is on trying to make the home and church look like what a cursed relationship looks like instead of relationships where grace is in place.

    Hope that helps just a little.

  20. Wade,

    Excellent…excellent! I see those 4 passages slightly different, but we arrive at the same conclusions and that’s what’s important. Bless you!

  21. Wade – I appreciate you taking the time to respond. Thank you so much. I’m definitely going to be sharing the video with my readers. But I think you better make sure your security staff is up to snuff because you might need it when pastors start realizing you have dethroned them 🙂

  22. “People Of The Way: Be Ye Followers Of Christ?”


    Wade Burleson said above:

    @ Wade Burleson

    (Referring to a quote)

     “Greek is a little bit like underwear – great for support but its rude to show it off.” 

    Wade: “I tend to agree with that sentiment.”

    Wade: “I believe knowing English is sufficient to properly interpret the Bible.”

    Wade: “There are enough study tools to determine the proper interpretation of a passage without any knowledge of Greek.”

    Wade: “A simple interlinear or concordance will show what I’m saying in this passage is on target.”

    The ideal situation is that the teaching elders in every Christian church be equipped to translate the scripture text from its original language and to expound the meaning to the congregation. 


    It would also serve the church congregation well to be excited about their faith to where they, on an individual basis, would read and study the Bible for themselves. 
    (With online bible services such as bible gateway and others, the advantage to do this type of devotional work,  has never been greater. )

    Many professional religious ‘church’ men progress from good, to bad, to ugly, because we empower them each week, by our tithes and by our attendance; and by purchasing their ‘products’.

    In this hour, there are many faux pastors pushing their false products for self-interest.

    Discretion  is advised.

    Wade Burleson also said :

    Wade: “I think the mistake many modern evangelicals make is that we don’t think for ourselves. We let somebody else do the thinking for us.”

    Wade: “Authoritarianism in the Christian church is a HUGE issue – bigger than just about any other issue.”

    Wade: “Jesus said the greatest among His people will be servants, but for some reason, modern evangelicals think the greatest among us is the one served.”

    These words (directly above) are very well spoken.

    God has certainly not given us a spirit of timidly or fear, but one of  power, and of love and of sound mind. Therefore  one would be well advised to  let no one despise their status or position in the church, but be an example to every believer in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith, and in purity, as the Lord walks with you!

    …beloved , devoted, and faithful followers of Jesus Christ,