Rumors Swirling of Resignation of SGM’s CJ Mahaney and John Loftness From Board

Posted on by March 4, 2013avatar

This coming from Brent Detweiler as of 7 PM this evening. 

Update: 8:18 AM Apparently this resignation will mean that they will still run their churches. So, it is merely from  SGM central.

SGM Board Covers Up Request for Resignation of C.J. Mahaney and John Loftness 

Read the full letter here. Link Remember, this is not confirmed.

The letter you wrote the SGM pastors about John Loftness’ resignation was not truthful and now you are doing the same with the letter regarding C.J.’s upcoming resignation.  You need to stop dead in your tracks and start over!  This time write an honest letter. 

The only reason C.J. is resigning is because you asked him to resign.  He was not happy about your decision but decided not to fight it.  You should also make clear the Board was divided over his removal and spell out who was in favor and who was opposed (e.g., Mickey, Ken).  The pastors in SGM deserve to know how each Board Member voted on something of such significance. 

Comments

Rumors Swirling of Resignation of SGM’s CJ Mahaney and John Loftness From Board — 109 Comments

  1. Ah good, you caught Mr. Detwillers latest.
    The SGM board appears to be between the proverbial rock and hard place. if it is true Mr. Detwiller wrote his email on Wednesday and the notice about the resignation was supposed to go out from the board Friday, is it possible the board is struggling with the truth?

    As in, either they tell it or Brent Detwiller will…

  2. BeneD
    It is time for this saga to come to an end. The system is broken and radical measures will need to be taken. I am sitting on a story about an alleged “situation” in another SGM church in my area. I plan to break it on Wednesday if said church does not explain.

  6. Indeed… Challies is going to be wishing that he’d never written that disingenuous blog post.

    Of course, the most I expect is another disingenious post. But I hope I’m surprised…

  7. If they do resign, will anything change? Or will most people go back to burying their heads in the sand? Somehow I doubt their replacements would be much better…

  8. Loftness already resigned a few weeks ago. You know, so he could give more time to his church. Brent refers to that in his post/letter. He’s calling out SGM for not being honest about Loftness’s resignation and saying don’t do the same thing with CJ.

  10. Da Ceege Resign’in: For the Love Of Da Proverbial SGM Game?

    HowDee,

    Sovereign Grace Ministries Veteran President Charles Mahaney, (C.J.) Preaching Great, quickly approaching age 60, wants nothing more than to reconnect with his one-time love, Jesus Christ, but has apparently always been better at blackmail,  “various expressions of pride, unentreatability, deceit, sinful judgment, and hypocrisy”, possibly harboring and covering up church member pedophilia for some twenty years…so the story goes…

    What?

    Now with his career and reputation in the balance, C.J. battles against his emotional and physical limits, a class action suit, and a laconic Maryland Judge as he strives for a perfect SGM game…

    The suspense is never drawn back in this heartwarming continuing drama about life, love, and risking it all for love of da proverbial SGM game. 

    huh?

    …resign from SGM, “…for the glory of God, the good of the gospel and the well-being of God’s people?”

    hmmm…

    naaaaaaaaaaaa

    S“㋡”py

  11. So why would the SGM Board feel compelled to give a duplicitous reason for “asking” C.J. Mahaney to resign? Why would the board want to “save face” as Brent alleges?

    Here are some of the possible reasons:

    – They might have to admit that C.J.’s blackmailing Larry was something that disqualified C.J. or other hypocrisy and sin of Mahaney that were exposed in the documents Brent put together.
    – They would have to explain why they didn’t take proper action when C.J. Mahaney gave his diatribe at the SGM Pastors conference in November of 2011 where he downplayed his sins.
    – They would have to explain why they allowed C.J. Mahaney to orchestrate a quick move to Kentucky that was decided before allowing any input from “associated” churches.
    The SGM Board by not taking action early really has dug themselves into a “hole” by going along with Mahaney rather than exposing and stopping him.

  12. Marge Sweigart wrote:

    Loftness already resigned a few weeks ago.

    John Loftness was the Chairman of the SGM Board of Directors

    John Loftness has resigned because “The time required in chairing the Sovereign Grace Board added to John’s already full schedule in both serving his church as well as caring for members of his extended family who are in poor health.” In stepping down, he plans to “give himself anew to serving those in his extended family and in his church” according to the announcement.

    John is the foremost Defendant mentioned in the Class Action Lawsuit against Sovereign Grace Ministries. The press release makes no mention of this as a reason for stepping down.

    Under John’s Chairmanship, C.J. was returned as President of SGM. John famously wrote,

    “This comprehensive process has clearly confirmed C.J.’s fitness to lead and his exceptional character as he has graciously endured major trials. Through all of this he has been found to be a man and a minister of fundamental integrity. We know of no one who is better suited for the office of President.” (June 28, 2012)

    The process by which C.J. was evaluated was anything but comprehensive. Ninety five percent of my charges were never examined and no charges by anyone else were ever examined. It was a corrupt and unjust process from beginning to end.

    Craig Cabaniss, senior pastor of Grace Church in Frisco, TX also stepped down from the Board of Directors two weeks ago in order “to focus on the church.” The SGM Board makes no mention of this in the announcement regarding John’s resignation.

    These two resignations leave 7 men on the 9 man Board. Paul Buckley, the Vice Chairman, will assume the role of Chairman.

    The quote above was from Brent’s blog on February 18th. http://www.brentdetwiler.com/brentdetwilercom/2013/2/18/john-loftness-resigns-as-chairman-of-the-sgm-board.html
    SGM blog post regarding Loftness’s resignation is here: http://www.sovereigngraceministries.org/blogs/sgm/post/Board-Update-Regarding-John-Loftness.aspx

  13. Megan

    The Gospel Boys will write a puff piece about how he threw himself on the altar for the good of SGM.

    It will be a "gospel" resignation. Al Mohler will get them all jobs.@ megan:

  15. Now, Now That Bad Dog
    It could also be a time management issue on his part. After all, 683 book reviews and counting on Amazon means he is gospel deep, sacrificing his time to bring “objective” analysis to the world of gospel literature.@ That Bad Dog:

  16. Sadly, if CJ’s forced resignation is true, it has absolutely nothing to do with Christian love for neighbor (i.e. the victims) nor preaching the Gospel and everything about a desperate attempt trying to salvage the SGM organization to keep the money flowing in. For that, they deserve the same fate as Jerry Sandusky’s ‘charity’ (i.e. pedophile front) – the death of the organization.

  17. Hoppy

    SGM will now have a branding problem. Already they are feeling it in drop of membership and finances. My guess is that SGM will become synonymous with "child sex abuse cover-up".

    It might be hard to overcome. However,you make an important point. I will do a story on Wednesday (I think) that will show that it is "business as usual" in SGM. It will be rather shocking….or will it?@ HoppyTheToad:

  20. The new line will be: They resigned to give more of their time, talents and “theology” to their churches. And TGC will tout their sacrifice. How gospel of them!

  21. Marge

    Thank you. I just made a change in the title. I misunderstood. I thought it mean they were OUT instead of hiding out in their churches. Now, I get it. @ Marge Sweigart:

  23. …* Melting, Melting, Melting?

    HowDee,

    …on the issue of resigning from da SGM Presidency, sure, Da Ceege would  probably say something like dis in proverbial SGMeeeeese, ‘I have no category for this…’?

    hmmm…

    strange, and stranger…

    neither do we… 

    (grin)

    Is da Ceege in an incorrect category?

    What?

    Has da Ceege nefariously placed himself outside any proper ‘religious’ classification?

    huh?

    Is he now in a catagory, and quite possibly a classification all by his lonesome self?

    Say What?

    Crack! Crack! (goes Judge Judy’s proverbial mallet…) Crack! Crack!

    hmmm…

    could b.

    B#ent’s Notes on da Ceege? …for of such character, a questionably unclean individual among da proverbial SGM board, is regarded as a unpalatable unwanted iconic symbol, Debtwelder 23:18. On the meaning of the expression, see the notes on Debtwelder 3:2. The word “without” means that they would not be admitted into the Happiest Plaze On Earth , the New SGM, Debtwelder  21:8, Debtwelder 21:27.

    -snicker-

    B#ent thinks itz time for a ‘translation’ change for SGM’ers?

    “For without are da proverbial dogs – the wicked departed SGM congregations, including da vile whistle blower(s)?” 

    – Da Proverbial Current Revised SGM Standard Version?

    hmmm…

    * Can i have da broom?

    (grin)

    Sopy
    ___
    Notez: 
    “As for those pastors who persist in sin, coddle them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in awe.”
    -Calvinesta  SOP?

    —

  24. “It is time for this saga to come to an end. The system is broken and radical measures will need to be taken.”

    Absolutely. Think about this….what if Al Mohler gave a public statement that SBTS was severing ties with CJ Mahaney until SGM has worked this out and the lawsuit is over. What do you think would happen? I think Mahaney would be done on any Reformed stage.

    Steve asks:

    “So why would the SGM Board feel compelled to give a duplicitous reason for “asking” C.J. Mahaney to resign? Why would the board want to “save face” as Brent alleges? ”

    It is very simple. How can EVERYONE save face and walk away from this not ruined? See, the problem the board has if they want to ditch Mahaney is that the Reformed big dogs are backing him. Piper just came to speak at the new church? There is a REASON he did that. I think Brent gives himself waaaaay too much credit. Outing them? Please! I think it is much bigger than being afraid Brent will call them liars.

    This is about saving face and jobs. Not just CJ but the board that is paid by SGM churches! (Good reason not to have a board made up of employees! Better to have outside yes men like Mohler has) And the whole mess is so convoluted legally. What is SGM? Technically.

  25. This will also be an exercise in seeing how celebrity Christians artfully throw each other under the bus with humility and Christian love. The problem they have is that these men are in a lawsuit TOGETHER (for the Gospel?) YET they are in the middle of a bizarre divorce.

    Remember, CJ is retirement age. Josh is not. Josh has to also think about his future speaking gig career. This is all he knows as he was raised in this “business”.

  26. Anon 1 wrote:

    I think Brent gives himself waaaaay too much credit. Outing them? Please! I think it is much bigger than being afraid Brent will call them liars.

    I see your “Puh-leeze!” and raise you a thousand YES’s. 🙂

    “People, if the American political class has taught us anything over the last 20 years, it’s that no matter how awful, unseemly, or outright horrid the scandal, one always ALWAYS puts out a bland presser stating one’s passionate desire to “step down from public service in order to spend time with my family.”

    Now Ceej can’t exactly use that excuse seeing as it would severely impact Brand Girltalk.

    But a la Piper, he can dish out a big chunk of Grade A cheese along the lines of “I’m going to take time to work on the garden of my soul” or some such hooey.

  27. Releasing totally bogus statements without revealing the truth behind the reshuffling of the SGM deck is modus operandi for these thugs. Its like they get some kind of big, fat thrill out of withholding the truth and seeing their nefarious, behind-the-scenes-plots accepted by people who they’ve groomed over the years to never ask questions and believe the best, but to whom they continuously deceive. They enjoy pulling the wool over the sheep’s eyes. It must makes them feel so special, in a class of their own, knowing the “truth” and then fobbing off on people some twisted version of events. But what right have they ever had to deceive people and then tell them to believe the best…about their lies?

    Well, it serves the King-of-the-Hill right for this information to be leaked ahead of the announcement.

    The game is over for CJ Mahaney. Time for the non-Pastor & the non-Athlete to leave the field. In all his talk about Humility, he’s demonstrated he’s full of pride. In all his talk about the Cross, he’s demonstrated he’s unwilling to give up anything. In all his blustering about Worldliness, he’s demonstrated hes a man of the world than of God’s Kingdom. You’ve been degifted Mr. Mahaney. How’s that feel?

    Bon Voyage and good riddance. See you in court.

  29. Update: 8:18 AM Apparently this resignation will mean that they will still run their churches. So, it is merely from SGM central.

    So CheKa changes its name to OGPU which changes its name to NKVD which changes its name to KGB, each name change heralding a Wonderful New Era with None of the Old Stuff Any More.

  30. That Bad Dog wrote:

    I wonder if Tim Challies will “deliberately avoid learning too much” about the circumstances of this resignation?

    He’s a Good German. What do you think?

    “I KNOW NOTHINK! NOTHINK!” — Sgt Schultz

  31. “Apparently this resignation will mean that they will still run their churches. So, it is merely from SGM central.”

    Ok, but is SGLouisville an SGM church plant?

  33. Evie, You gotta wonder if Mohler, Duncan, Dever, DeYoung, Trueman, Ortlund, Piper and others will be asked to give character witness for CJ in court? I mean, why can’t they explain to the jury this is how Christianity works in the New Calvinist REformed tradition….the sheeple are told not to call the civil authorities that the church will handle it. After all, that has to be what they all believe since they have supported Mahaney through this as a strong leader. It is a first amendment issue for the LEADERS.

  36. Julie Anne, Morality is in the eye of the Christian leader. He decides what is moral and when.

    It is much more popular in Evangelicalism leadership circles to write about the immorality or lack of ethics of the world system instead of what is going on in our own ghetto. See, it is different when you do bad things in the Name of Jesus. After all, we are all sinners.

  37. Anon 1,

    The best witness CJ had was John Loftness who gave it best after the AoR report was released, stating what an amazing guy CJ was. Pretty sure that earned him the position of Chairman of the Board. And then the lawsuit.

    Now who can be one of Mahaney's stool pigeons? Mohler? Duncan? Certainly Dever should after he provided CJ & Carolyn refuge. But all those guys are sissy-pies. They're not going to stick their necks out for Mahaney, especially after seeing us make Mincemeat Pie out of Challies.

  38. Anon 1 wrote:

    Julie Anne, Morality is in the eye of the Christian leader. He decides what is moral and when.

    “The time will come when some will question whether what we do is legal. Before that time comes, make sure WE are the ones who define what is legal and what is not.” — L Ron Hubbard, Founder of Scientology, Commodore of Sea Org

  41. I wish that Brent Would Focus on the Big Picture

    I’m confused on this one on a macro and micro level. It seems that Brent is reacting to something he thought would happen but didn’t happen. That’s his prerogative yet I’m not sure what he’s expecting people who aren’t privy to the insider news he has to do. I visited the SGM site and C.J. is listed as its President and there’s no indication that the board is planning to fire him. Are we supposed to pre-emptively yell at the board for something they haven’t done yet?

    I’m aware that Brent bears responsibility for helping create SGM’s problems and don’t think that his role as a whistle-blower of integrity cancels that out. But there’s no question that by putting everything on the line, including his health and financial situation, Brent has helped bring down SGM. I also think that Marge’s petition, based on his writing and research, has had a big impact on the world because Brent is a talented writer and researcher.

    However, I wish that he would use his talents to do something besides chase C.J. around as if getting rid of CJ will fix SGM. SGM can’t be fixed no matter who its President is and there are bigger issues at hand than C.J.’s status with the organization.

    I also don’t agree with Brent’s belief that the details of all internal personnel decisions need to be made available to the public.

    Most corporations simply say, “this person is no longer part of our organization” as opposed to getting into gory details about why they were really fired.

    Likewise, I think the SGM board has the right to make similar statements about people they’ve asked to resign as opposed to trotting out a long list of that person’s sins and shortcomings.

  42. Marshal said,

    “Most corporations simply say, “this person is no longer part of our organization” as opposed to getting into gory details about why they were really fired.
    Likewise, I think the SGM board has the right to make similar statements about people they’ve asked to resign as opposed to trotting out a long list of that person’s sins and shortcomings.”

    Is SGM a corporation or a church with a greater responsibility to do what is necessary to heal the breach of trust that the leaders have created?

    True repentance for handling a situation poorly – or flat out wrong- is to clearly state the wrongs, sincerely own them, apologize without any clauses, and lay out how going forward the wrongs will be righted … then follow up with actions. Without transparency … trust will never be reestablished again.

    1Tim5:20 (Context is elders in sin) “Those who sin should be reprimanded in front of the whole church; this will serve as a strong warning to others.”

  43. @ Marshall:
    I think I expressed similar thoughts to Brent via email 18 months ago. CJ had fled to CBHC at the time, so an alternate subject line might have been “Mark 9 or 9 Marks?”
    Subject: Love CJ, Love The Church, Let SGM go to hell!
    Brent,  
           Don’t think I’m cursing in the subject line.  I mean that literally, since an organization like you describe must be a millstone, hand, or eye as in the latter half of Mark 9.  I’m responding to your line in the cardinal sins article about loving CJ and loving SGM.  Christ requires us to love the man but not his “ministry” or “leadership” which is  hurting “little ones” and causing him to sin…

  44. I don’t know why an Apostle has to listen to any board or group of people.

    I am guessing that the churches out there will all eventually pull out of SGM and start some new affiliation. SGM will slowly run out of money. There won’t be anything left at the end of the day. If the plaintiffs recover anything in the lawsuit, it may be from insurance payments. That assumes there is coverage. If there’s no coverage, by the time the plaintiffs obtain a judgment, there may be nothing left of SGM in terms of on-going contributions. Whatever they have in hard assets that are not mortgaged might be available to pay any judgment that may be awarded.

    I don’t believe Mohler will make any public statement such as has been suggested. I think that CJ will slowly take a back seat and will be off the public speaking tour until all of this is over. CJ will be the one to speak about this. If Mohler says anything it will be something about a mutual decision to reduce non-pastoral speaking engagements until the lawsuit is resolved etc.

    And Mohler will not get these guys jobs – in the SBC. They may get jobs elsewhere, but not the SBC.

    If the lawsuit turns out poorly for CJ, I can see him writing a book about it and what he has learned. If it turns out well for CJ, then he can say he was wrongly accused.

  45. When Da Bow Breaks:  “A Matter Of Degrees�”

    HowDee,

    …the truth behind the reshuffling of the proverbial SGM deck chairs�

    hmmm…

    One must patiently understand it is a matter of precise mathematical degrees, in both acute temperature, and a bobbing bobus bow angle.

    What?

    Kirrrrrk!

    …all stations, all stations, this is the H.O.S.  Mahaney…

    [sound of twisting metal…]

    (rest of the message 
    garbled…)

    Later…

    Kirrrrk!

    …In SGM News: Charles Joseph Mahaney was such a irreplaceable international treasure…What a shame, What a shame.

    -snort-

    ….now about his tender gardening, did they say�…he’ll certainly be missed.

    and nowwwwww for da sports…

    “Whos on first�”

    he, he.

    Da Ceege: (in da background) “dang doze am-BITCH-ous Women at Wartburg!”

    -snicker-

    Da Ceege: “…As I walk along I wonder SGM, what went wrong with our love, a love that was so strong And as I still walk on, I think of the things we’ve done Together, a while our hearts were young I’m a walkin’ in the rain Tears are fallin’ and I feel the pain Wishin’ you were here by me To end this misery!” (1)

    …A proverbial mad-cap church system gone ‘run away’�

    hmmm…

    more at run amok.

    S“㋡”py
    —
    Dem Beagle Notez:
    (1) “My Little Runaway”, Parody adaptation. U.S. Title 17, Copyright infringement un-intended. All rights reserved. Songwriters: Murs, Oliver Stanley/Argyle, Adam Stuart/Brammer, Martin; Lyrics © Universal Music Publishing Group, Warner/Chappell Music, Inc., Kobalt Music Publishing Ltd., Sony/ATV Music Publishing LLC. Whew!

    —

  46. Eagle, IMO, the last paragraph of your last post is what all believers who know anything about any of this, should be asking. Sadly, Neo Calvinism has already made significant inroads into Western evangelicalism. Most of the RBDs aren’t seen as the Floyd R. Turbo wannabees they are, but as Rafiki so eloquently put it, those who turn to “attending to the garden of the soul”, and MORE importantly, I think they’ll try to somehow use the opportunity to grow “the gospel” even more effectively among male Christians in their “care”. Women, children, Jews, abused people, non-believers, well, that’s another story. Anyone for a cup of Sharia tea?

  47. Eagle wrote:

    Correct me if I am wrong but he hasn’t even taken ownership for any of that.

    You are not wrong, in my personal opinion.

    Since the amended lawsuit came out I’ve felt strongly that Mr. Detweiler needs to step away from the keyboard.

    His documentation played a prominent supporting role in shining sunlight on the strange inner workings of the SGM leadership, but it is the testimonies of the many brave victims who came forward that carries the most weight, period.

  48. Marshall wrote:

    However, I wish that he would use his talents to do something besides chase C.J. around as if getting rid of CJ will fix SGM. SGM can’t be fixed no matter who its President is and there are bigger issues at hand than C.J.’s status with the organization.

    Ding ding ding ding ding ladies and gents, this is the bottom line!

  49. This heavy handed, patriarchal authoritarianism isn’t peculiar to SGM and related churches, but I find it more than coincidental that the doctrines these “manly men” spew out are also apparently associated with an extra dose of abuse toward women and children, not to mention other problems. I knew a person who ran the all star team of a bunch of boys, aged 10-12, for years and years. No one would EVER have suspected him of pedophilia because of his manly manliness, not until 2 of boys came forward years later. He got away with the behavior for decades, so who knows how many people he really hurt? “Methinks thou dost protest too much”.

  50. It’s interesting, isn’t it, how many different elements have combined to bring about God’s will within SGM? Such a contrast to how SGM designed “God’s will” to function. SGM pastors had to meet certain rigid requirements and the members were all given specific guidelines to fit into what SGM defined as “gospel-centered, biblical, cross-centered living.” And if you ever brought a “criticism” or an “observation” to those in leadership, the requirements were even stiffer. Any hint of pride? Epic Fail. D-missed. “Go home and examine your sinful heart.”

    Yet, look at what God has done? He’s used a band of misfits like you and me. He’s used someone like Brent Detwiler. He’s used the internet so that people could share their stories anonymously. He’s used all sorts of broken people to bring out his perfect will – like he always does. And I’m sure guys like Mahaney, Dever, Duncan, Mohler, Challies etc don’t recognize God’s hand in all of this because in their minds, God only works through their prescribed channels. And if they weren’t the ones to write the scripts, then they can’t approve of the outcome. Unless it fits their definition of how God’s will is worked out, then they won’t recognize His authority in us and in the part we played to bring about justice. All along we heard we were “gossips” and “slanderers” and “bitter people.” They assigned sin to our behavior and motivation. Yet, it would appear God worked through our efforts more effectively to cause the truth to be known more than anything those men did combined.

    How did their books or sermons or conference messages change anything?

    How did their pastoral jobs or positions as Seminary Presidents change anything?

    How did their years of experience preaching the gospel change anything?

    How did their plans to travel the world as a Global Apostle change anything?

    They did nothing to change anything!

    It would see the gospel those guys preach is pretty ineffectual if you ask me.

  51. @ Julie Anne:

    Julie Anne, you cannot expect a response when you address the renowned Dr. Mohler as “Mr. Mohler” now can you? You need to go back to your tweet, show due humility and a repentant attitude, and write a winsomely worded apology for your lack of proper submission to spiritual authority.

  52. The IRS Doesn’t Require You to Prove a Non-Profit is Doing Something Fishy –
    They’re Just Happy to Get Tips

    Anyone can make a good faith complaint to the IRS, and they’ll investigate it from there if they believe it has merit. You don’t have to (probably can’t possibly) prove anything. They’re happy to get tips from the public so there’s no reason to hold back if anyone else share my concerns about SGM/CLC.

    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/divulge_all_suspected_tax_exempt_status_abuses_to_the_irs.pdf

  53. It doesn’t seem at all unreasonable to me to associate all-male religious hierarchies with a greatly increased risk/incidence of abuse of women and children. The track record, in other words, is not good.
    @ RB:

  54. @ Evie:

    YesSiree! Jesus is indeed using the internet so that people can share their troubling stories anonymously. He’s also using all sorts of kind people (like U) to bring out his perfect will – like he always does. 

    Bravo,  Evie!

    Can i shine youze halo?

    ;~)

    Sopy

  55. Anon wrote:

    @ Julie Anne:
    Julie Anne, you cannot expect a response when you address the renowned Dr. Mohler as “Mr. Mohler” now can you? You need to go back to your tweet, show due humility and a repentant attitude, and write a winsomely worded apology for your lack of proper submission to spiritual authority.

    HA – that’s funny, I forgot he’s a doctor – somehow slipped my busy mind – and I was thinking, hmm, how do I attempt to address him respectfully? That was my best attempt. I’m not going to change a thing. I was thinking of “Hey, Al,” but refrained knowing that he’s in the South where there is better etiquette displayed than my neck of the PNW woods.

  56. When it comes to abuse, I don’t blame it on a male hierarchy as much as I blame it on too much power without a counter balance. I think this is the root.

    Having said that, I then blame it on male attitudes towards women taught/exampled in church … thus influencing society.

    I liken this notion to when I was hearing of racism for the first time. I could not for the life of me grasp how I, a white person, had anything to do with the plight of the blacks? I get it now. I get the context, the difficulty in understanding the issue since it never affected me. It took work on my part and a willingness to learn, grasping the pain and the need.

    Same with hearing that women are not treated equally, not given same opportunities, not valued the same … hard, hard lessons not easily grasped without effort … yet, so true.

  57. Anonymous, Some of your comments are interesting. I wish you would expound upon a few:

    “I don’t believe Mohler will make any public statement such as has been suggested.”

    I found this confusing since he did speak to a reporter and make a declarative statement after CJ stepped down supporting him and chiding bloggers. Why do you think he won’t make a statement now?

    ” I think that CJ will slowly take a back seat and will be off the public speaking tour until all of this is over. CJ will be the one to speak about this. If Mohler says anything it will be something about a mutual decision to reduce non-pastoral speaking engagements until the lawsuit is resolved etc.”

    Non pastoral? Does that mean that Reformed SBC churches will have Mahaney in speaking? That would show a subtle support.

    “And Mohler will not get these guys jobs – in the SBC. They may get jobs elsewhere, but not the SBC.”

    That is a declarative statement. May I ask how you can be so sure?

    I am so used to having to analyze everything with certain types these days, I want to make sure I understand you. Here are a few questions concerning your declarative statement:

    1. How would you define “job”? There is already a beneficial intertwined relationship with individuals within SGM. For example, Bob Kauflin said on his blog that he was looking forward to providing interns to SBTS. Do you know what he means? Would there be a benefit to any SGM connected person like Chesemore who is Mahaney’s son in law attending SBTS with tuition discounts or part time jobs. What about Devon Kauflin’s band, Norton Hall? Are they profiting or benefiting from being at SBTS in any way? there are other connections such as SGM music, etc. Do you think these will continue?

    2. What do you define as “SBC”? Are you defining it as an enitity only? What about SGM affiliated people and positions in NAMB church plants?

    Thanks for considering my questions. I would really appreciate some more detail since you seem to be in the know. Would you mind sharing if you are a trustee or somehow affiliated with SBTS so you would have some insight we do not have?

    :f the lawsuit turns out poorly for CJ, I can see him writing a book about it and what he has learned. If it turns out well for CJ, then he can say he was wrongly accused.”

    Oh, I would say there is a book in it either way. Perhaps the ESV publishers Crossway already are in talks with him?
    :o)

  58. “SGM can’t be fixed no matter who its President is and there are bigger issues at hand than C.J.’s status with the organization.”

    Bingo,Marshall! And the president of SBC’s flagship seminary, Al Mohler thinks CJ Mahaney is a great leader. Talk about scary as this shepherding cult thinking has infested the SBC. People forget Mahaney was invited to preach at the SBC pastors conference not long ago. That is a big deal and we have some very good pastors who should be asked but they are not reformed, celebrities or mega church pastors.

  59. @ Julie Anne:
    As an Attorney who earlier earned a Ph.D. (a legitimate doctorate, not some funky Th.D. or D.Min. or an dishonorably honorary one), I need to tell you that men who earn a doctorate are still misters. Castration is not included in the degree package. So addressing him as Mr. is entirely appropriate. There are some who really care. I tell people that if they want to be my friend, address me by my first name. Otherwise it is Dr. _________, Sir, accompanied with a salute, other that the one-fingered kind. If Mohler wants respect, he needs to earn it, every day, and the degree does not prove he deserves it. Backing CJ is to me a long step away from deserving respect.

  60. Grateful, that’s a good point, and the Biblical view, imo. I just pray that the eyes of those who tout the false teachings that men are better than women, adults are better than children, Gentiles are better than Jews, etc., will be opened. If confronted with these perspectives, many in the churches represented would immediately deny it, sincerely, perhaps, but it is more than obvious to outsiders, when observing the effects of the sometimes subtle messages.

  61. An attorney

    After a hectic day, you made me laugh.

    Otherwise it is Dr. _________, Sir, accompanied with a salute, other that the one-fingered kind.

  62. Anon1:

    “I am used to having to analyze everyting with certain types these days, I want to make sure I understand you.”

    O.K.

  63. @ Anonymous:
    Anonymous
    There is a bit of a PR problem for Al Mohler. His last statements about CJ Mahaney were made in the newspaper. Those statements said the only reason people didn’t like Mahaney was because people do not like strong leaders. This, of course, did not acknowledge the victims and appears to support Mahaney over little 3 year old children who allegedly are made to forgive their pedophile.

    Unless he makes a statement, he will be remembered for that as his last statement. That is not a smart note to end on. Bloggers might be tempted to remind people of his final word.

  64. “Anon1:

    “I am used to having to analyze everyting with certain types these days, I want to make sure I understand you.”

    O.K.”

    I am disappointed. I was hoping you at least would expound upon your declarative statement:

    “And Mohler will not get these guys jobs – in the SBC. They may get jobs elsewhere, but not the SBC.”

  65. As I recall, some folks on Survivors were miffed that Steve Whitacre supposedly glided into a cushy work/study program at Southern Seminary ahead of folks that are long-time members and supporters of the SBC. If so, I can’t imagine anyone other than Mohler facilitating such preferential treatment.

    Whitacre isn’t claiming to be anything other than a full-time student so I imagine he does have an SBC job unless he’s independently wealthy enough to support a family of 6 without any income.

    That’s actually a remote possibility as someone from the Fairfax SGM, where Whitacre worked, told me that his parents are quite well off.

    On principle, given the degree to which Mohler has already supported the Mahaneys, I can’t imagine why he would be shy about getting them SBC jobs.

  66. @ Marshall:
    “I also don’t believe that Brent dodges hard issues or avoids people who want to talk with him about the hurt they believe he’s caused them. Perhaps Dave can tell us if/how Brent responded to his e-mail.”
    It was just a “Thanks for your email, no time to respond personally to all, but do read them.” (Likely a form letter, which was fine with me.) I friended Brent on Facebook after Connolly told folks to defriend him, but haven’t talked with him there. Overall, I think his “rumors” are trustworthy.
    Can’t help quoting this about him today off SGM Survivors:
    Jim (of SGM Refuge): Love him or hate him, while “the blogs” were knocking some nice holes in the USS SGM, Brent landed a shot right in the captain’s chair.
    Stunned: Jim, Brent fashioned the cannon ball, but you launched it. Good on you.  
    (Jim posted Brent’s documents via SGM Wikileaks)

  67. I’m cutting back on snarky comments, but just one: Rumor has it that as holes opened up in the USS SGM, Captain Schittino made for safety in the Louisboat.

  70. Hester, LOL, I was thinking of that song, too!

    Julie Anne, will check out the link to CCA’s blog.

  72. @ An Attorney:
    Maybe Castration is Part of the Deal at Certain Seminaries
    Are you sure castration isn’t included in the Southern Seminary graduate degree package? They don’t seem to be producing very manly men these days. 🙂

  73. The Alex Grenier lawsuit has been decided

    “Major Victory for Bloggers and Free Speech”

    ” Allegations of conduct which would violate the trust his church members and members of the public place in him as a church leader are matters of public discussion or controversy.”

    http://michaelnewnham.com/

  74. Julie Anne wrote:

    Hey all: Go check out CCA blog on the Pastor Bob Grenier lawsuit against his son and former church member, Tim. http://goo.gl/xxeby

    Sure looks like a blogger victory to me!! WOOHOO!

    Woohoo Julie Anne!
    *clap!* *clap!* *clap!* *clap!* *clap!* *clap!* *clap!* *clap!* *clap!*
    Hooray for the truth! Hooray for blogger victories! Power to the people!

  75. “As I recall, some folks on Survivors were miffed that Steve Whitacre supposedly glided into a cushy work/study program at Southern Seminary ahead of folks that are long-time members and supporters of the SBC. If so, I can’t imagine anyone other than Mohler facilitating such preferential treatment.”

    Is this one of CJ’s son in laws? Which SGM church did he come from? Was he an SGM pastor who has also decided to get educated at SBTS? If so, I sure hope is not planning on an SBC church.

    Wonder how one goes about getting a work/study at SBTS? I would love to see the process.

    Tuition discounts are reserved for SBC members, if I recall correctly. Or at least they used to be. I wonder how that works for work/study programs?

  77. Rejoice with TWW as we celebrate and thank God for the tentative victory for Alex Grenier/Tim Taylor. When will pastor learn to never, ever sue their critics. They keep suing and losing.

  78. Celebrity pastors read this:

    “A person becomes a limited purpose public figure by injecting himself into the public debate about a topic that concerns a substantial number of people. Once he places himself in the spotlight on a topic of public interest, his private words and conduct relating to that topic become fair game.” Gilbert v. Sykes (2007) 147 Cal.App.4th 13, 25

  79. Yay, Alex and Tim! I’m so thankful to God for this outcome. Your victory is our victory.

  80. @ Anon 1: Yes, Steve Whitacre is married to C.J.’s oldest daughter. He worked at the SGM in Fairfax, VA for a long time. That church is named in the lawsuit but Steve Whitacre, personally, is not.

    He appears to be a full-time student at Southern and said through the GirlTalk blog that he and his wife want to plant an SGM Church. I don’t know what his real plans are as there’s not likely to be much of SGM left when he graduates. Since he’s bothering to go to Seminary my guess is that he wants to join a major denomination like the SBC as opposed to an organization like SGM that appears to have no serious educational standards for its church-planting Pastors.

    As for Mohler, University Presidents almost always get discretionary funding and special powers as part of their contracts. For example, it’s not unusual for the Presidents of big name Universities like Yale and Stanford to personally extend invitations to students they really want without consulting the formal admissions department. The President of Duke did that for the guy who found the error in the SATs a few years ago.

    Thus I think that Mohler could pull some strings for the Mahaneys but I don’t know if he did or not. Arguably the only people this issue truly could truly affect are any SBC folks who got bumped out of the way in favor of Mohler’s non-SBC friends.

    I was primarily responding to the person who implied that Mohler would never stoop to getting the Mahaney’s jobs with the SBC. If the Rev. Dr. Mr. Al Mohler is willing to drag his entire denomination through the mud for his pals I think he’ll get them jobs, too.

  81. I’m wondering if an invitation for CJ to resign has anything to do with legal advice? The class-action lawsuit gaining momentum is likely to be far more troubling right now than polity issues.

  82. Thanks Marshall. There are quite a few high profile SGM “children” at SBTS.

    “If the Rev. Dr. Mr. Al Mohler is willing to drag his entire denomination through the mud for his pals I think he’ll get them jobs, too”

    I think he probably has in some way including preferential treatment but it will be one of those things that won’t be admitted in any way.

  83. Couldn’t the “resignations” really be about protecting these two guys, you know, putting them into a cushy retirement, since I think retirement packages might often be untouchable or exempt from a legal judgement? Even if, it would still seem like these two might have a hard time having to decide between money and power, having been so used to so easily having both. I wouldn’t bet a penny on which one they value more. I just suspect that any major changes SGM makes right now are going to be all about protecting asses…oops, I guess I mean assets, before the court makes any binding decisions or judgments. It’s not unusual for a lot of asset protection and money moving to occur when a corporation is facing a lawsuit.

  84. @ bazinga:
    CJ and John resigning from their positions as President of SGM and Chairman of the SGM Board, respectively, doesn’t put them into retirement. They are still both Senior Pastors of SGM churches.

  85. oh ok, thanks for clarifying that for me Marge. I just would not be surprised if every move they make is motivated by asset protection at this point. I mean, I know its not legal to move money around to try to hide it from the courts, but then again, SGM doesnt have a really stellar law abiding reputation either so I wouldnt put it past them.

  87. Marge

    I will be contacting you a little later today. I am planning on going with the story tomorrow. However, I shall approach it as a “public service announcement.”

  89. Marge Sweigart wrote:

    CJ and John resigning from their positions as President of SGM and Chairman of the SGM Board, respectively, doesn’t put them into retirement. They are still both Senior Pastors of SGM churches.

    All it means is they’re not OFFICIALLY in charge of their not-a-denomination. Doesn’t mean they’re not still the Power Behind the Throne. Remember Putin of Russia? Even when Medvedev was officially President of Russia, he fronted for Putin.

    (Also, something about Japanese history — a retired Emperor often had MORE power and influence than the actual Enthroned Emperor, as he was no longer bound by rigid roles and protocol.)

  90. “Disgruntled SGM Whistleblower Or Penitent Saint, Or Somewhere In Between…?”

    HowDee,

    hmmm…

    Bret Detweiler (one of the four founding members of SGM) after compiling more than 600 pages of documentation, and annotations about certain internal problems , provided the formidable document to the SGM board via email.

    (crickets were heard chirping @SGM central at da time…)

    nada…zip…zilch!

    Then Jim Pappadeas of the fame’d SGMRefuge.com, admittedly some time later put them on the Internet, making ousted Bret Detweiler initially look like a petty disgruntled employee, i.e. a  blasted SGM whistle blower, a proverbial lier, which he admittedly was not, on any account.

    What?

    “…It is important for folks to know that Brent Detweiler did not initially post these documents but has since done so.” -Dee

    http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/39341/comment-page-1#comment-692080

    “…While Brent has since posted his documents on his blog, his first “tell it to the church” action was emailing them to SGM pastors. They were sent to me , and I created the SGM Wikilieaks site on scribed, 

    http://www.scribd.com/sgmwikileaks

    which was how they were first made available to the public. I’m not looking for any credit (or death threats), but want to affirm the truthfulness of Brent’s statement that he did not originally make the documents public.” ” I felt it was time to clarify when I saw that the imonk (link brlow) article stated that Brent released the docs online, 

    http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/39341/comment-page-1#comment-692070

    so I ‘outed myself’ in the comments there. I then saw that Jenn’s timeline was being discussed, and I noticed the reference to the accusation that Brent posted them. He (Brent Detweiler) was telling the truth. He sent them to SGM pastors, they landed in my inbox, and I “widened the circle”. Love him or hate him, while “the blogs” were knocking some nice holes in the USS SGM, Brent landed a shot right in the captain’s chair. “I see it as God’s perfect storm. ‘The blogs’ gave Brent’s docs a huge platform. Without survivors and other outlets, the doc’s would not have had the impact the had. When they were released, the (Blog) platforms were in place, and the eyeballs were there. Just add water-instant viral.”-Jim Pappadeas (SGMRefuge.com) 

    Is Brent Detweiler one of da good guyz?

    hmmm…

    Brent what color is your hat?

    he, he.

    Apparently, Repentance & Reform within SGM (specifically one Charles Joseph Mahaney, head of the non-profit organization in question) were among his (Brent Detweiler’s) primary objectives in sharing the documents with the SGM board in an e-mail.  Online internet distribution of the compiled 600 page document, was not one of them.  At the time of their release on the Internet, he got tagged for da blame, all da same.

    “I didn’t doooooooo it’ “, He said.  “Sure, Sure”, they all said…

    …step aside, Black Bart…

    Errr…Brent!

    get on youze horse and Getttt!

    huh?

    Now we all know that the illustrious and distinguished fellow from da sunny orange, was da proverbial SGM Roto-Rooter-Man …

    Whoa!

    And away goes trouble?

    (grin)

    (wonders never cease, huh?)

    now I’ze heard everything…

    ha ha

    Way ta go! Jim!

    “Tip of the sword”, Bro!

    No really, really, really smelly job is too small, eh?

    -snicker-

    Now we’all have a bit more of “da rest of da story”?

    (ma sides are still aching)

    hmmm…

    Brent, take a break! …youze can take doze jailbird stripes off fer now!

    Surfs up!

    (grin)

    hahahahahah

    Sopy
    —
    P.S. BretD, doze dis make youze one of da venerable good guyz?

    hmmm…

    Sorry…Pal, 

    regardless of the color of youze hat…

    dat venerable jury’s still out…  🙂

    somtin’ bout burnt popcorn, I think.

    (grin)

    So…don’t forget ta save da wrappers…

    ;~)

    —

  91. John Piper is reportedly moving to Nashville when he is done with Bethlehem Baptist. HIs daughter mentioned this in church several weeks ago on a Wednesday. I wonder why? He preached at Mahaney’s church in Feb praising him. He is probably going to help him.

  93. Anonymous….

    Please…say it cannot be true. But here is the deal.. . . megachurch pastors almost have to move out of town when they retire or it becomes impossible for the new guy.

    When I watched the piper in Geneva video I got the impression….. big changes were coming for Desiring God ministries. SBTS Would be a great resource For his lofty plans To be the 21st century John Calvin.

  97. “Why Knoxville, I wonder.”

    Close to Louisville without actually moving there, maybe?

    An SGM church Knoxville he would want to attend? Didn’t Piper go to an SGM church while on his leave/sabbatical/marriage garden growing time?

  98. anonymous
    She may not have it wrong. Who says people don’t change their minds? The appearance of Piper in Louisville was controversial so who knows what’s up?
    @ anonymous:

  101. Dee, It is so funny, I heard some rumblings of Mahaney resigning and where is the first place I search? Wartburg Watch. I knew you guys would have it all. You’re like the Drudge report of the Christian world.

  102. anonymous

    Drudge? We are moving up in the world. We are usually viewed as slandering Philistines!

  106. Is this ‘another’ tragic example of a big-shot pastor who let it all get to his head?

    Or is it more…much more?

    Wow, good question…

    It would seem…the largest disaster in all this T4G related stuff, is their silence. 

    How so, you ask?

    Apparently, the leaders of T4G are convinced that C.J.Mahaney has been misrepresented, misunderstood, and possibly marginalized in many internet arenas, public forums, and among those who profess the name of Christ.

    What?

    $ure.

    Not a casual read of the  SGM Survivor stories  (“link”), or the SGM wikileaks (“link”), will provide a largely differing view.

    “Over the last few years some former pastors and leaders in Sovereign Grace have made charges against me and informed me about offenses they have with me as well as other leaders in Sovereign Grace. These charges are serious and they have been very grieving to read. These charges are not related to any immorality or financial impropriety, but this doesn’t minimize their serious nature, which include various expressions of pride, unentreatability, deceit, sinful judgment, and hypocrisy.” -C.J. Mahaney

    Let those who profess the name of Christ beware?

    Beware? 

    …Have ‘they’ slipped the proverbial dogs, that cheweth up da flock of God?

    hmmm…

    could b.

    (sadface)

    Sopy
    —
    P.S. What about the 7000 souls or so that attend the T4G conference ever year?  hmmm… Peter Pan’s Ahem! Al Mohler’s proverbial ‘lost boys’ perhaps. (sadface) Maybe they will never grow up and see the bigger picture… [Please pray for them!]

  107. “Profound Per-co-la-tion?”

    HowDee,

    “Brand New Calvinist™ luminaries, C.J. Mahaney has been running his Sovereign Grace Ministries in a rather damaging fashion”? 

    hmmm…

    ..with a bizarre nature, which include (rubber stamped) “various expressions of pride, unentreatability, deceit, sinful judgment, and hypocrisy”? (rubber stamped) documented blackmail? 

    fresh ink?

    hmmm…

    pot’s a brew’in…

    Sopy

    —