“SGM churches are separately organized and constituted in their respective communities. They voluntarily partner together for certain aspects of their broader common mission: to plant churches, develop resources, train pastors and serve international ministries in order to proclaim the good news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We ask that you please join us in praying that God guides and leads all of us in these challenging circumstances, ministering his grace, comfort and peace to all who are affected by this situation, and that His truth would prevail.”

This is the part that looks like an attempt to distance CJ from the pastors HE TAUGHT and LED who did not call the authorities and made 3 year old girl forgive her molester.

Sure they are using the 1st Amendment. It is about the government not being allowed to tell a church how to operate. Paige Patterson used it when SWBTS was sued for demoting Klouda because she was a woman. All the attorney had to say was the seminary operated like a church and it was thrown out. Churches can do what they want. Do not ever go to work for one. You have no basic labor law protection at all.

Child molestation is a different matter, though. And I think the statement shows they are scared. After all, it will involve a jury that Mahaney cannot woo. He has to actually answer questions this time.

Let me get this straight –

Throwing out the bizarre notion that the First Amendment precludes following mandatory child sexual abuse reporting guidelines/laws and lying about its involvement with the day-to-day business of its churches is the best SGM can do?

Somehow I don’t think this strategy will go over well with the public at large much less anyone sitting on a jury.

Susan Burke must be having a ball with these guys.

Funny that SGM is desperately emphasizing that none of their pastors are accused of physically abusing anyone without realizing that many people consider the emotional abuse associated with trivializing or outright conspiring to cover up abuse/allowing sex offenders to keep doing what they’re doing with impunity, at least as bad as physical abuse.

You could argue that some sex offenders are sick and in need if help whereas what the SGM people did/are doing is sheer calculated evil.

Sounds very much like a pattern similar to the “Police Code of Silence.”

The Blue Code of Silence (also known as the Blue Shield, Blue Wall, Curtain, Veil, or Cocoon is an unwritten rule among police officers in the United States not to report on another colleague’s errors, misconducts, or crimes. If questioned about an incident of misconduct involving another officer (e.g. during the course of an official inquiry), while following the code, the officer being questioned would claim ignorance of another officer’s wrongdoing.[/i>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Code_of_Silence

In regard to SGM’s statement that “SGM leaders provided biblical and spiritual direction to those who requested this guidance. This care was sought confidentially, as is a right under the First Amendment.” – Mary, a commenter over at SGM Survivors makes a good point:

“some of the women bringing this lawsuit were children at the time. They were not coming to pastors for counsel. They were expecting adults in their lives, in particular pastors, to protect them. They didn’t seek out advice — they were the victims of pastoral advice.”

http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/?p=3855&cp=2#comment-68689

I suspected that the First Amendment would be a central part of the defense, so I am not surprised.

If a congregant, for example, came to a pastor with a problem, and the pastor recommended biblical counseling as the solution and spoke against seeing a psychiatrist based on the teachings of the church, and then later the congregant committed suicide and a lawsuit was brought claiming that the pastor improperly counseled, a primary defense would be the First Amendment right of the church and pastor to hold religious convictions and teach them to the members in their church.

We have some of that in these cases, so I suspect that the First Amendment will come into play. But that is not the only issue here.

The First Amendment will not absolve the church for failing to report abuse in accordance with whatever Maryland law provides.

But the reporting obligation will fall equally on the parents.

What is not known is whether the parental failure will act as a bar to the collection of damages from the church.

Also, to recover damages for some of the alleged events (as opposed to simply be punished for failing to comply with the reporting requirements), the damages must have been caused by the failure to report. If reporting can be shown to have stopped the abuse for some children because then the same abuser then turned around and abused again, those children will be in a good position to recover damages.

The “separately constituted” language is also not expected, but I really don’t know that much about SGM churches. If they were separately incorporated, with a separate Board of Directors, that’s the start of a good defense.

I just don’t know what Maryland law would say if in addition to being separately incorporated there is also a system of control where Mahaney still controls things. I don’t know how that will work.

As to issues like the intentional or negligent infliction of emotional distress (e.g. requiring a 3 year old to “forgive” her abuser and meeting with him), that is also probably an issue for the First Amendment. How those type of issues work out has always been a mystery to me because in reality while the court has all sorts of legal sounding rules and such, the bottom line is there is an unwritten rule regarding the boundaries of religious conviction in these cases.

Therefore, Indians cannot smoke Peyote in their services. Prostitution will never be legalized on the grounds that it’s part of a religion, nor will self or child sacrifice.

There are all sorts of legal sounding explanations for this, but the basic point (which is never static and is hard to predict) is that our culture believes somethings are out of bounds. Making a 3 year old meet with an abuser is probably one of those things, even if it is a sincerely held religious conviction.

But as you can see from this initial defense, the issues are going to be complex. And then you get into factual disputes (people disagreeing about what happened), and it’s going to get really complex.

My bet is that if the cases, or big parts of the cases, are not dismissed on First Amendment grounds or organizational defenses (separate corporations and such), and there are issues of fact, there will probably be a mediation and a settlement. SGM and or its insurer (or the insurers of the respective churches) will kick in some cash, and it will all be confidential.

I could be flat out wrong. But that’s a guess at this point.

Oh – and the “years ago” statement, while appealing as a defense in some cases, is irrelevant here because the minors’ causes of action were tolled, and they can bring them now.

Re: 1st Amendment. My former pastor sued me to prevent me from talking on the internet about how he spiritually abused his congregants. I believe SGM violated the victim’s families’ First Amendment rights by telling them NOT to call authorities. It seems that SGM’s so-called pastoral “counsel” violated their First Amendment rights.

So SGM thinks they can pull the 1st Amendment rights card, yet violate it at the same time? Wowowowowow! Aren’t they special?!

I have a bit of a different take. I don’t think SGM “violated” the parents of the victims 1st Amendment rights because they were attending the church voluntarily. They took the pastor’s advice when they were not forced to. (this is why I am so into warning folks about these cultish churches)

BUT, and this throws a monkey wrench into it, the victims had no choice. They got NO justice from either their parents or the church. And crimes against them were NOT reported to the police by either party. Since the victims are now adults, it will be interesting to see how that aspect of it plays out.

From what I understand is taht later some of the victims parents did tell the authorities and THEN SGM tried to help the perverts. (Please correct me if I am wrong on that) That should be a big factor.

No one can get around the fact that SGM was protecting perverts. IN come cases calling the molestation of a 3 year old girl by a 16 year old boy, “experimentation”. If anything, more of the world is going to see what sort of people CJ and his pastors really are. And we have Mohler’s words in the public arena to show he approves of how CJ operated SGM. Mohler called it “strong leadership” and the bloggers just do not like it.

I go back to the fact that victims, who were underage at the time, are now seeking justice. That is a bit of a different twist. I am wondering if any SNAP people can tell us how that has played out in the Catholic lawsuits. I realize SGM is claiming autonomous polity of churches, but I am not so sure that will fly when these pastors are under oath in a deposition. One has to wonder how far they will go to fall on a sword to protect CJ, especially considering what they now know about his blackmail of Larry Tomczak, his early partner.

CJ is the Don Coleone of SGM. The question is, who will remain loyal to him. Because I sincerely believe, based on his past behavior, he will throw those SGM pastors under a bus and not give it a second thought. If you do not believe that, go read sgmwikileaks. CJ is quite the slippery eel.

What is even more confusing is that about all CJ has right now concerning credibility is what Mohler, Dever and Duncan are propping up. Makes one wonder their motivation to prop up such insidious behavior toward children.

“SGM leaders provided biblical and spiritual direction to those who requested this guidance. This care was sought confidentially, as is a right under the First Amendment. . . . SGM believes that allowing courts to second guess pastoral guidance would represent a blow to the First Amendment, that would hinder, not help, families seeking spiritual direction among other resources in dealing with the trauma related to any sin including child sexual abuse.”

This is such a bunch of BS. One can’t hide behind skirts of the First Amendment to cover up sexual abuse – just ask the Catholic Church.

Makes me want to ask…is child molestation protected under the First Amendment as well for this crowd? — Eagle

Probably. “Laws of GOD vs laws of men” and all that. As long as it justifies what those in power wanted to do anyway.

“When ‘what is right’ has been thoroughly deconstructed, ‘what I want’ will still remain.” — C.S.Lewis(?)

It really does take multiple readings to “parse” and interpret a statement like this. — Brad Futurist Guy

Probably written by their lawyers.

“Only a lawyer can talk for three hours and say absolutely nothing.” — my father

“It all depends on what the meaning of ‘is’ is.” — William J Clinton

@ NotAMohlerFan:

In other words, freedom of religion doesn’t mean that you can do absolutely anything in the name of your religion and get off scot-free – esp. when the activity in question is actually illegal (like failing to report child molestation when the law requires that you do so). They seem to be approaching it more from the freedom of religion angle than freedom of speech.

brad futuristguy,

Your point about the court of public opinion was well-stated. The modern-day Gutenburg Press is making a tremendous difference in getting the word out.

I find it interesting that SGM used the blogosphere to self-promote when the Internet age dawned. Now the Mahaney girls issue edicts regarding how the Internet should be used (I.e. don’t gossip!!!).

I find it interesting that SGM used the blogosphere to self-promote when the Internet age dawned. Now the Mahaney girls issue edicts regarding how the Internet should be used — Deb

i.e. “HEADS WE WIN, TAILS YOU LOSE!”

We did not ask these “pastors” for “counsel” regarding the sex abuse, we wanted them to deal with the pedophiles that roamed their church.

Three assistant coaches from Penn State are now facing criminal charges regarding the cover-up of ONE pedophile. SGM has had multiple pedophiles, spanning 25 years. Do they honestly think that because some of these cases are twenty years old that will matter a hill of beans to a jury?

Sorry for the error, it was “officials” that have been charged, not assistant coaches.
This was from an article on ESPN.
“Former Penn State president Graham Spanier became the third school official to be charged with crimes in the alleged cover-up in the Jerry Sandusky child sex abuse case.”

I haven’t commented in a while…and I don’t even know how to comment to this mess. Child abuse is to be reported by whomever discovers or suspects it. I don’t see how the First Amendment covers that. Child abuse is a CRIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What alternate universe are these SGM folks in?

This makes me angrier than I can even express.

Happy Mom –

In other words, their statements are only responding in part (and maybe drawing the attention to other issues). They have no answer for why they didn’t do more to protect other children from harm while abusers were allowed to roam freely in the church?

Nick … dood! Totally get what you’re saying, and agree. It is one of those hidden assumptions that don’t always rise to the surface of discussions.

But my gut sense of things is that there’s been a marked increase in survivor blog comments referring to God’s justice and judgment falling onto SGM as a system and onto individual leaders responsible for perpetuating its flawed forms of lording their authority over the sheep.

And if this judgment does happen in very public ways (which it looks like it is), perhaps it will have a broader effect to silence public excusers of Sovereign Grace Ministries, and call out the otherwise silent supporters. Because, at least as far as I’ve been able to observe in 35+ years of encounters with spiritual bullies, their systems are never just them alone. So if they get judged, their henchman don’t always escape …

@ Numo … I was keeping up just at the beginning, and then seeing that more names were being added to the investigation etc etc. (But, of all things, I’m “supposed” to be doing less online media and research right now, as I’m in the middle of a deadline book project. Am finding ways to tie in SGM situation etc with the book, so I can justify commenting on it …)

If nothing else, the BBC situation seems to show that no individual or group can keep a lid on sin-evil-lawbreaking forever. The Lord is always watching and on the move (even if/when it doesn’t look like it), and public opinion is increasingly turning against such predation, and the law is going after the perpetrators AND the perpetuators who assist through cover-up.

If nothing else, the BBC situation seems to show that no individual or group can keep a lid on sin-evil-lawbreaking forever. The Lord is always watching and on the move (even if/when it doesn’t look like it), and public opinion is increasingly turning against such predation, and the law is going after the perpetrators AND the perpetuators who assist through cover-up.

Indeed – and I wonder how much the Sandusky investigation has helped people go forward against both Savile and the Beeb?

Is it just me or does SGM want their own form of Sharia to trump the law of the land?

The Beeb (and wider criminal) investigation into Jimmy Savile, and now others, is yielding both encouraging and concerning results. Encouraging, because many people have come forward, and there’s every chance that no-one feels they can’t say anything about what happened to them years ago. Certainly they must know that they are not alone. But concerning in that the paedophile witch-hunters are already out and about. One high-profile false accusation has already come to light. In another deeply unsavoury incident, a prominent daytime TV presenter handed David Cameron – on live TV – a list of alleged offenders he openly admitted he’d trawled out of the internet. As we all know, internet gossip need not necessarily have an ounce of basis in truth, and the names on that list could have been anyone. (ITV say they are taking “appropriate disciplinary action”.)

I hope you’ll excuse my stating the patronisingly obvious, but my earnest prayer here is that wisdom, power and love are all manifest; and that righteousness and justice prevail together. Innocent lives are destroyed as completely by false allegations as they are by abuse itself. But as a society we have to take that responsibility, and not be immobilised between two fears.

Nick, in case you didn’t know, the 3 perps of the SGM plaintiffs were all convicted by the secular authorities. This lawsuit is about the systemic pattern of pastoral cover-up of sex abuse, not whether or not there was actual molestation. You can read the text of the legal complaint here:
http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/2012/10/18/lawsuit-text-with-address-redacted/

@ Deb … thanks for the encouragement. The SGM situation is crucial for the Kingdom, especially (it seems to me) in its timing in the overall flow of a larger social movement against bullying. It is worth investing time in following, as best as possible. I’m using it for a case study in my writing project for describing the kinds of thinking tools that we can use for analyzing systems and figuring out potential “so what?” applications for the future. So that’s one reason it makes sense to try keeping up – and for another, my hunch is we’re about to see through SGM how interconnections of relationships work in the world as it has emerged to create healthy or toxic systems, and to create trends toward constructive transformation.

@ numo and Nick and Anonymous 5:05 … re: the BBC, I wonder if it’s been sinking in over the past few years that to deal with the predators, you have to deal with the entire system that protects and enables them in continuing to do that damaging things they’ve been doing. So, it seems there’s been increasingly more push-back on the larger entities … this mega-media outliet, that university, this government agency, that diocese or denomination.

And when personal sins and systems evil are exposed by the light, it doesn’t make me happy. Relieved, yes. Grateful that perhaps it may protect innocent people who would otherwise have been victims, yes. Happy, no.

Also, although one of the wonders of the digital era is that it’s far harder to “scrub away” incriminating evidence you don’t want hanging around, one danger of the digital era is that it’s near impossible to correct allegations, misquotations, and outright falsehoods. Damage can happen so quickly, and repair and reparations don’t. That’s another form of injustice that needs to be acknowledged and addressed.

Nick: Also, visited your new blog and loved it. What a great idea to have an online blog for your local community of believers. True ekklesia!

"Nick, in case you didn’t know, the 3 perps of the SGM plaintiffs were all convicted by the secular authorities. This lawsuit is about the systemic pattern of pastoral cover-up of sex abuse, not whether or not there was actual molestation. You can read the text of the legal complaint here: http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/2012/10/18/lawsuit-text-with-address-redacted"

Thanks Toni, I was wondering about that.

I’m telling you, SGM, you REALLY don’t want to be lumped together in the same breath as $cientology. You really, really don’t. — Southwestern Discomfort

Including a dedicated episode of South Park?

“POOR LITTLE CLAMS — SNAP! SNAP! SNAP!
POOR LITTLE CLAMS — SNAP! SNAP! SNAP!”

PEOPLE–PEOPLE HEAR ME

CJ is going to make these court case go away– Because the women in these case will give up and go away. CJ will buy them new homes– new cars— pay for there college— this is lunch money for SGM and CJ.

Before being crowded out by political ads, they had this peppy little piano jingle they used to preface any Penn State news.

HUG — It’s a guitar, actually.

http://www.kfiam640.com/player/?mid=22258973

:: waving from my corner of SoCal ::

Toni –

Nick, in case you didn’t know, the 3 perps of the SGM plaintiffs were all convicted by the secular authorities. This lawsuit is about the systemic pattern of pastoral cover-up of sex abuse, not whether or not there was actual molestation.

Thanks for pointing that out; I didn’t realise that. And thanks for dropping by!

@ Eagle on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 12:34 AM:

Re: Evil – you’re on to something … I realized that in a few of my recent comments about SGM in various places over the past few days, I’ve been adding in the word *evil* as applied to their coercive system, strategies, and infrastructures; and also to unrepentant sinfulness of leaders that creates a culture of relationships that continues to harm people. It’s not just engaging in sin, it’s enacting evil.

The heard the most profound definition of *evil* from a spiritually precocious five-year old. When asked what she thought “evil” was, she said, “Evil is when you’re doin’ something that looks good, but you’re thinkin’ something bad.”

Selah … that’s worth thinking about …

Organization and structure and processes and procedures can all be good, but when infused with bad motives – power, control, self-indulgence of leaders, perfectionism – they inflict great harm. And if the harm comes indirectly from “the system” instead of directly from those who create and/or maintain the system, that doesn’t let the creators and maintainers off the hook. They are still responsible.

So, I guess we really need to see things about SGM (and any errant system) on at least three levels: sin, crime, and evil. Full justice would involve all three:

* exposure of sin and (hopefully) repentance for the individuals involved in directly harming others directly or harming them indirectly through the cultures and systems they create or perpetuate;

* civil/legal system consequences for those who perpetrate crimes; and

* exposure of evil systems, and either demolishing them permanently, or dismantling and replacing them with healthy systems.

It seems to me that different combinations of the three run problems throughout the whole SGM situation, including the lawsuit (the crimes belonging to the perpetrators of sexual abuse). The responses will depend on the specific people and problems involved.

Anyway, from a completely human perspective, I have only small hope for the larger SGM system to be able to change enough and soon enough to stop inflicting the damages of legalistic theology and authoritarian leaders on others. It seems the larger the system, the more difficult it is to shift course away from destruction: think about a rowboat and an iceberg versus the Titanic and an iceberg.

And yet, on a spiritual level, I believe there is still hope. The only large-scale organizational transformation I’m aware of, going from a “cult” (both doctrinally and structurally) to a sound system, occurred with the Grace Communion International. (Formerly known as the Worldwide Church of God, run by Herbert W. Armstrong.) I haven’t been able to do a full-scale case study on how this change came about. But from what I’ve absorbed so far, it seems like the spark for organizational change came from several key leaders who had a change of heart and theology, and who saw the damage that their doctrine and system had done. I don’t know exactly the order of what happened, but those do seem to be some of the elements involved. These change-agents led the way for altering the system, and to do that required them to stand against the old doctrine and old order. I’m looking forward to looking into this far more deeply, to reinforce or correct those initial impressions and especially to explore the specifics that sparked change. Very relevant situation for fueling reasoned speculation about the future of SGM …

In short, change happens when there is *repentance*. REAL repentance – not the kind of quickee “acknowledgement” of wrongdoing in order to satisfy authoritarian leaders and avoid unpleasant legal or social consequences of one’s actions. The word *repentance* in Greek literally means a “change of mind.” I think of it as a sort of “spiritual U-turn.” And I think we’re glimpsing signs of this kind of repentance at Covenant Life Church and some of the other smaller units within the larger SGM system. There seems to be a change of course, standing against some of the old ways, moving in new ways. Certainly, it’s not all that SGM survivors would want, but it does seem to be progress at least. So, there are continued reasons for hope and for praying that those who can effect changes find the conscience, will, and grace to do so.

Actually, I consider acts of repentance as a sort of cosmic surprise that indicate God’s Spirit has been at work. Repentance doesn’t happen without a shift in conscience. And the Scriptures talk about a dulled or seared conscience and hardened heart as signs of resistance against God. And psychology tells us that lack of conscience is a key feature of sociopaths; they show no true empathy for others, and no remorse about using/abusing others when it gets them what they desire. So, for change to occur for the right reasons, and for evil systems to be dismantled, I’ll watch for signs of U-turns in how people are valued, how conflict is handled and how differences are seen as signs of strength. Those kinds of things.

As a sidenote, think of a “penitentiary” as designed not just as a place to lock-up people who’d broken the law to do penance, but to provide a space to reflect on one’s life and, hopefully, find repentance. Perhaps the internet has become that sort of penitentiary in the digital era for people who support evil. It offers them a space to be confronted through online documentation about how they and their evil systems harmed people, to consider the destructive effects of their actions and, hopefully, find repentance. I expect that those who do make that U-turn will not attempt to scrub away their past, but will document their trajectory forward to transform toward becoming safe, healthy, and growing in their future.

“But as the lawsuit proceeds, there is nothing that prevents the parties from posting copies of depositions etc.”

A lot times that works in the guilty person’s favor, though. And because those who are guilty are pretty good at making sure there is no documentation, have character witnessnes, etc. By way of their position, it favors them in many cases. Pennn state might be changing that, though.

It is almost impossible for folks to understand how easy it is to be tyrannized and not even realize it because you trust people or institutions. Most folks have much tolerance adn good will reserved for them and only realize when it is too late, it was totally misplaced.

John Immel wrote a blog post about it that was as close to explaining it as I have ever seen.

http://spiritualtyranny.com/the-event-of-an-sgm-life/

So many of the cold hearted will come out against them for being “stupid”.

Brad – I loved that you touched on repentance. In so many of the stories we read, that was the overall focus – – – not the protection of the victims, care for the victims and the families, but gospel repentance is probably how they would word it. They are so obsessed on this practice, that they forget what real love is. In true repentance, we see love in action. Love means really “serving” (not the SGM definition of serve) others who are in the trenches by bringing meals to the victims and their families, helping to lighten their load, do yard work, offer to help with practical needs, give them time and space to deal with the trauma that was dealt them, refer to them counseling, report the crime, stick with them through the long healing process, etc. That is what loving people do. The SGM leaders should have made this happen.

What we saw demonstrated was typical spiritually abusive behavior: quick legalistic reconciliation (forced), image control, damage control, no reporting of crimes, put this behind us so we can move along for the sake of the “SGM gospel” . . . .

Julie Anne, they have hijacked the terminology and redefined it to fit their heirarchical paradigm and use it against people. We are speaking two different languages. This is something we really need to warn folks about.

serve does not mean serve. repentance does not mean repentence. Gospel does not mean Gospel, etc, etc.

It is downright Orwellian.

@ Haitch Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 02:29 PM. “This [SGM hijacking the terminology and redefining it to their hierarchical paradigm and using it against people] is ultra-fascinating. I think there should be a post on this.”

Totally agree about totalitarian language … fascinating – devastatingly so, because of the damage it does. And in fact, “loading the language” is one of the classic eight characteristics of an authoritarian “cult” as described by Robert Jay Lifton in his 1961 book, *Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of “Brainwashing” in China.*

Two teaser quotes on how cults taser the language (and by “totalist,” Lifton means thought-reform cultures that seek to control the total person in every aspect of their lives):

“The language of the totalist environment is characterized by the thought-terminating cliché. The most far-reaching and complex of human problems are compressed into brief, highly reductive, definitive-sounding phrases, easily memorized and easily expressed. These become the start and finish of any ideological analysis” (page 429).

“Totalist language, then, is repetitiously centered on all-encompassing jargon, prematurely abstract, highly categorical, relentlessly judging, and to anyone but its most devoted advocate, deadly dull: in Lionel Trilling’s phrase, ‘the language of nonthought’” (page 429).

Part of what makes this reduced language so destructive over time is that it restricts the richness of what you THINK, so it also eventually constricts what you think ABOUT. It shrivels our thought-life until it fits nicely and neatly into the teeny-tiny preselected and preshaped compartments of The System. A simple faith as dictated in these systems becomes simply fake over time.

I was in a church like that for five years. It took years afterwards to figure out and “reconstitute” all those freeze-dried words that leaders had sucked all the biblical flavor out of. Like,

• Grace
• Doctrine
• Discipline
• Love
• Truth
• Submit
• Spiritual
• Lead
• Church
• Fellowship
• Authority
• Mature

For SGM, seems like some of the code words that got messed with (and thus messed members over) were:

• Pastor
• Apostle
• Leader
• Submit
• Parent
• Repent
• Reconcile
• Gospel
• Grace
• Ministry
• Disciple
• Authority

What other terms do SGM survivors see that “lost their saltiness” in the SGM system?

Haitch –

Sorry it didn’t work with the spaces. Try this without periods.

..text..

@Brad, so basically they’re using framing techniques with the words themselves. Wow. I think Chomsky talked about how the media frames in his book “Manufacturing Consent” – as he’s a linguist too there might be something on the language also. I’ll report back if I find anything.

@Bridget, your first one worked but I don’t know how you did it !

Hey Bridget,

I don’t know what others do but this works for me…

To make text appear bold use this code directly in front of the words or words you want to bolden, minus the spaces:

Use the same process for italic except replace the ‘b’ with an I

Hope that works for you.

I tried! 😛

ahaaa! ahaaa!

GBTC –

You must have magical powers back there. I tried everything to get the symbols to show up and couldn’t. But I’m not the Gal Behind The Curtain 🙂

JUST TYPE but that is so boring. We like to learn new stuff!

The Orwellian language comment is spot on – I actually feel that quite a lot of Calvinist theology has done the same thing…I often feel I don’t know what most of the words in that first list of Brad’s really mean anymore, with any certainty.

Two completely different ones here. Actually, I’ll make them separate posts. The quick one is for the Chap Behind The Curtain…

Out of interest, how did you disable the html tags in the examples here? I’ve tried using ‘, as in unix (I think – bit rusty there) and Micros**t Excel, but it doesn’t seem to work.

@ Nick and Beakerj, re: Orwellian language … so many words to hijack, so little time … It is distressing that there are so many “buzz words” that get hacked, cooked, re-chopped, processed, extruded, reshaped, and baked into reduced vocabulary. And worse, that it is used as a means of control. A few more decades of “newspeak” and there won’t be any “oldspeak” concepts in those generations’ paradigm. But that’s the way it works when Big Brother takes over.

@ Nick. Kuhn was sort of the springboard for what I actually consider as my core work, which is paradigm analysis. It just happens to require the use of a zillion different disciplines. Well, half a zill. Here’s a piece I wrote a while back that is the essence of how I’ve adapted the paradigm concept from scientific method over to theological, organizational, and cultural analysis; and social transformation.

http://futuristguy.wordpress.com/2008/06/22/paradigm-profiling-in-the-missional-zone/

Dear Southwestern (5:16 PM Thur)

You know the Headleys personally!? That’s amazing! I haven’t read Marc’s book yet, but I do know about their story from other sites. And it really is an astonishing story of courage and love in the most horrifying circumstances. They’ve displayed amazing resilience in the years since their escape, most recently refusing to re-sell their souls to That “Church”, even though it hurt them financially. And the outpouring of generosity towards them afterwards was incredibly moving.

I hope that those involved in the class-action case against SGM have the same kind of courage — I’m sure it will be very, very hard on them. And that all of us will be supportive and encouraging towards them. And mostly, I pray that God will somehow open the eyes of leaders at SGM, and they’ll realize how creepy and slimy they look, and how much harm they’ve done.

You’re absolutely right. Looking like the “Church” of $cientology is A Very Bad Thing.

Wow, Evie … upon reading your comment, what immediately came to mind was from my research into and reflection on (1) sociopathology and (2) how people get hooked into following/enabling sociopaths.

One of the key tools sociopaths use to ensnare certain kinds of people is compassion or empathy. They play up instances of their not fitting in, being misunderstood and thus wounded, being an outsider … those kinds of things. It seems to me that playing the card of “I’m a worm / the worst sinner / unoriginal — but just following the Lord, just learning, just doing the best I can” hooks right in to the sincere Christian’s sense that a real leader is humble, knows his weaknesses, shares vulnerably. They accept the persona as being The Real Deal. But it is not. It is an act, highly polished, effective on some while intuitively creeping out others who somehow read the disingenuous nature of all that pseudo-humility.

A second mechanism that I’ve seen at work in the Christian community especially is having henchmen carry out orders. The hierarchical leadership model with no forms of internal (congregational) or external (denominational) accountability makes for the supreme set-up for a sociopath (who has no conscience and will do anything necessary to protect and promote self) hiding behind layers of authority – the perfect device for plausible deniability. Those who carry out the kingpin’s orders get something out of the arrangement. If they are sincere Christians who hold to a hierarchical system, it makes sense; they’re just doing their duty and thus being faithful. (And I’ve seen this destroy more than one underling!) If they are power-mongers themselves, well, power is like porn and they get their fix regularly by carrying out the wishes of the man they idolize for making all their “prayers” for personal status come true.

These are not the only mechanisms involved, but they’re insidious. And they fit with the “leadership” profiles in SGM that we’re getting a clearer picture of, pixel by evidence-based pixel from accounts of leaders’ words and behaviors that emerge over time.

@ Anon 1 [Tue Nov 20, 2012 at 02:47 PM]

I think the perspective of sociopathology issues help explain why otherwise “intelligent” people can be sucked into the orbit of someone who is actually a contemptuous abuser of anyone within their gravitational pull. There are emotional and spiritual dynamics afoot for those abused, not just mental.

So, our vulnerability is not because we are stooopid, but, often, because we are compassionate and trusting. I know I got sucked in a few times because I felt sorry for these “leaders.” I got sucked in because I mistakenly believed that because I am sincere about wanting to build the Kingdom and minister well, that all “Christians” naturally do — especially pastors and other ministry staff members.

My heart and conscience were in the right place; theirs was not. And both I and they have enough “smarts” to know what the score was. But spiritual discernment is not simply about processing “information,” or we else we would never be having these kinds of conversations because there would be no need for spiritual abuse survivor blogs. Spiritual abuse affects us a whole people, because nearly every aspect of our being is being subjected to the corrosive power of unconscionable people …

Brad and Evie —

“A second mechanism that I’ve seen at work in the Christian community especially is having henchmen carry out orders.”

This was one of the first things I noticed when I started reading the SGM blog and other blogs. CJ is never the communicator or face to face man when hard information or decisions were communicated. He always had someone else delivering said information and decisions. He was always involved in decisions or what the information actually said, but neither his face nor is name were seen. I found this to be so wrong, and strange, considering the spectacle and attention he draws to himself when he preaches or we see/hear him in interviews.

Brad —

Have you watched or listened to any videos and/or sound of CJ speaking or interviewing? I would be interested in what you perceive about him, his mannerisms, and his communication tendancies. It might be fascinating.

Bridget on Tue Nov 20, 2012 at 09:22 PM said: “Brad — Have you watched or listened to any videos and/or sound of CJ speaking or interviewing? I would be interested in what you perceive about him, his mannerisms, and his communication tendancies. It might be fascinating.”

As of yet, I haven’t. I likely will at some point, though I don’t think I really want to. Immersing in this toxic stuff is taxing. I’ll only do so if I sense I’m clearly being led that direction by the Spirit. (In the past, I’ve had to immerse in my own vats of malignant ministry waste experiences to diagnose what happened to me so I could figure out antidotes. Knowing that process, I admire the plaintiffs and survivor supporters who navigate this SGM quagmire in order to regain their lives.)

But – assuming I do watch preaching or interviews from Mr. Mahaney and others – what would make that exercise of listening to SGM defendants intriguing is that I will not be engaged from an “unbiased” perspective. I am already through that stage and have continued to sharpen the focus of my “contour readings” about Sovereign Grace Ministries as a system looks, and the “interior dynamics readings” about how it functions. (I’ve been reading background material on Sovereign Grace Ministries for months, and that comes after at least three full years of studying the general dynamics of destruction in various kinds of situations with authoritarian abuse over individuals and organizations.)

So, to hear the voices of key people involved, and/or watch videos of them, comes at a point when they have to convince me of their truthfulness and sincerity, of their conscience and character … I do not start with a blank slate about them. However, neither are their materials going to be “objective.” Much of what I could listen to/watch would probably be considered “SGM-positive” – developed on their own turf, for people already more favorably disposed to them than not, or done in a setting designed to introduce people to SGM and therefore put it in the most positive, motivational light possible.

What may be even more intriguing is to think about how these SGM witnesses will function in the lawsuit trial. They will be scrutinized from every angle. A jury will go through a similar process that I did a year ago, of starting with relatively little (if any) knowledge of SGM and its history and opinions about it. They will listen to the evidence and individually be working out what they think the external contours of the SGM system are, as well as SGM internal functioning. And then they will process it as a group, with access to a judge for legal direction, and to all the documentation from the trial. It’ll be a legal MRI …

The questioning of SGM defendants under oath will not be unbiased, but likely include some very rough stuff, designed by experienced lawyers to squeeze out the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, the testimony from SGM defendants will not be on nice and easy “home turf,” but in a relatively hostile environment. [An odd thought … an “objective” legal arena is partially hostile toward all who must give testimony.] And the testimony given by plaintiffs will serve as a foil to which defendants must respond. But, assuming the plaintiffs have credible accounts (and from the reading thus far, I don’t doubt them), this is not an “SGM-positive” environment. Each and every defendant must prove his case by the “preponderance of evidence.” Thus, EVERY negative impression, EVERY attempt to divert around the facts, EVERY “slicky-boy” manipulative maneuver that works on one’s home turf – could well be the very one that docks the defendants in the courtroom and pushes them under the dreaded “preponderance of evidence” line.

From what I think I understand of the SGM system, the lawsuit, and those who are currently on the defendants list, I don’t expect them to do so well in presenting themselves. My observation from several situations I’ve personally had to deal with is that authoritarian leaders, especially those at the pinnacle of the organizational pyramid, may seem perfectly capable and calm when their underlings carry out all their orders. They can always deflect questions and criticism: “The vice-pastor is in charge of that. You need to go see him.” But they rarely do well when confronted one-to-one or in the presence of witnesses and the full facts are brought out before them. They play poker well when they have what seems to them a good hand. But their “tells” start showing up when the stakes go up and they are holding a bad hand. They may look calm overall, but show characteristic micro-expressions of fear and/or fury. They may sound cool, calm, and collected, but their body language says otherwise.

And if they all “pass the buck” by saying “the SGM network does that, not the local churches” or “the local pastor is in charge of that,” how is that going to look to a jury panel? When no one ever claims personal responsibility, then clearly the system is IRresponsible. Couldn’t that one little thing put the SGM corporation under the preponderance line …?

Anyway, good question, Bridget, and we’ll see how this unfolds.

For some reason, to be the author of a book called Humility and seeing all of these videos hailing CJ seems off to me. — Julie Anne

Hailing him as Comrade Humble Leader in a North Korean Spectacle BECAUSE He is so Humble(TM).

Look at His Armorbearers before him, blowing long trumpets to announce how Humble(TM) He is!

This is my comment to JW. I admit, I couldn’t wait for it to be deleted to post it here 🙂 I’m so willing to admit I was premature if he actually allows it!

“Jared, good job, sir, on the specificity of these guidelines. Now will you have the godly character and fortitude to call out CJ Mahaney and SGM, who are well-documented with many first hand accounts AND are the subject of a current lawsuit for bungling in this area? Will you?”

Ok, here’s my attempt at a comment. I think Jared will probably remove it. I’ve had comments stay before when I was real general, but this might be too close for comfort:

Jared – I’m glad to see this list. It’s a great start. What about accountability among church leaders, not specifically subordinates. How do you see this taking place? I’m referring to a specific lawsuit among one in your group. I don’t see that there is a solution to that loophole. If you have a president of an organization who has failed to follow appropriate steps, do his close connections within a group such as Gospel Coalition have an obligation to address this situation at a private level and then at a public level if they see no action taking place? This is a real problem and we will continue to see this happen until someone addresses it. Jared, I applaud you for taking the first step, but we as a church must do better.

Hmm – I’m also wondering if in the future I should create a different name for commenting because (1) I’m a woman and (2) I’m a blogger = not a good recipe for successful commenting on TGC blogs.