Wade,

Your description of this “divine appointment” with Allen is truly inspirational! I remember reading your blog post over a year ago about this horrific experience, not having any idea that I would ever have the opportunity to meet you much less post your sermons in this forum.

I pray that I will recognize those “divine appointments” that Almighty God orchestrates in my life.

Happy Easter to you, Rachelle, and your family!

Eagle

Don’t forget to add EChurch to the total. 🙂

Let us know how it goes. Still praying for your dad.

Happy Easter!

What a blessing this Easter service has been for me! Thank you, Dee, Deb, and Pastor Wade for making it possible.

Happy Resurrection day to all!

Because He lives, I can face tomorrow…..

Anybody here like old Papa Bach’s “Saint Matthew Passion”?

Dee, you wrote

Remember the old Bob Dylan is a Christian deal? How did that work out?

How do we know he’s not?

Eagle –

Wowser! You had quite the experiences this weekend. Isn’t it funny how things can work out sometimes. You, the self-proclaimed agnostic, go to three services; and I, who have not missed an Easter Sunday in probably 32 years, went to no services. It was probably good for me. We have much going on in our household at the moment, some good, some bad, some sad, some confusing, so not sitting at a meeting/service (whatever it is called) was probably better. We have been visiting colleges as well.

It sounds like you made it through the weekend unscathed, so to speak 🙂 Good for you. God is really good at meeting us where we are at. No need to put on any airs for him. He takes us as we are . . . don’t forget about the murderer on a tree next to Jesus.

The whole large family thing is what it is. We have maybe 120 families in our church and have three families with over 5 or more kids. In other parts of the SGM world the numbers differ. In the east and south there seems to be more large families. But some people really want large families. We can’t assume that women are forced. I was one of nine myself, so I don’t find large families odd. And, no, I was not brought up SGM. We were brought up Catholic, my mom was brought up Methodist and converted to marry my father. She always wanted a large family, so it was what it was — no underlying religious weirdness there. Other weirdness later on, but that is another story.

I LOVE little boys in suits! That’s not odd. The world is so casual these days that I think some people just like to dress up for the holidays for fun. I did it with my boys – not complete suits, just nicer clothes 🙂

The testimony . . . well, I think they do have most people right out what they are going to say. I always thought that it was just so people would know what they were going to say and know how long it was going to take. I don’t know how much editing or changing goes on, and that probably varies by church/pastor. I really don’t like feeling like a testimony is for the purpose of manipulation, though. A testimony is, IMO, to share what God has done so that people can rejoice with you, not for the purpose of wanting some result out of the people you are sharing with. It sounds like you sensed some manipulation in the what and why of the sharing. We have never had people share testimony more than once on a particular subject. A repeat would be really strange . . . but it is SGM.

As far as Eric SImmons is concerned, I know nothing about him. I do know that SGM pastors, as a whole, are not always very good preachers. They seem to preach more towards a purpose, rather than opening up scripture to people for understanding. They definitely preach with a Calvinistic bent. Seeing as most of the pastors have only been to a 9-month pastors college, I wouldn’t expect them to be great at really unfolding Truth in an orderly, factual (meaning checked their facts) sort-of way. This is not to say that I think everyone needs to go to seminary either. You can go to seminary and be an awful preacher. Some preachers are naturally good at this and some are not. But a 9-month pastors college doesn’t an orator make (IMO). Preaching isn’t mentioned in the Bible, so I don’t give much ear to preachers these days. In my experience, I have found that they can be helpful AND harmful. I am a Berean these days and the rest of my days!

——

Last week you asked me about SGM being a cult. I think many of their churches are cult-like. I don’t know if I would call any of them an actual cult. We really have to look at each church separately with SGM. So much of what an individual church is like in SGM is tied to the “head” pastor. (I don’t believe in a “head” pastor myself.) But since the head pastor (who is an elder) and any other elders are not accountable to anyone in their own church, there can be many unseen issues that arise that go unchecked. The congregation of a church are the only people that know and see what elders are really like – the good, bad, and the ugly. Much also depends on the heart of an individual man, along with his particular church doctrines. There is a lot that comes into play in anyone church.

Here is another questions I have been pondering —

Can a group be a cult without intentionally being a cult?

I don’t think SGM set out to be a cult. I believe that a culmination of many factors came together to create what is known as SGM. Many of the pastors, as you know from your own reading, are pretty much fine with how SGM is running things but would make a few adjustments (CJ believes this), otherwise they would leave or would be highly considering leaving.

The people are the same way. Some are not even batting an eye over all the issues, while some have left, and still more are on the doorstep. I can’t possibly know the hearts of these people, except to say that some may be a little hardened because of the doctrines that are taught. When you are inside the organization and “your” life is going well, you naturally think all is good for everyone. Because of the doctrines, if all is not well, you have been taught that it is just the Lord’s sovereignty, or God’s purposes, or God’s pre-determined will for your life. When you look at others pain with this perspective, you don’t always see the need to DO anything to show compassion, care, comfort, instruction, etc. To me, this equals “not loving” people where they are at the moment. This is not how Jesus interacted with people. There is something wrong with the doctrines. I see it in many of the Calvanista organizations. It comes across as unloving and cold (i.e., some of Piper’s comments).

Don’t know if any of this is helpful, but I wanted to interact with some of your questions – cause I like talking to you 🙂

Well, as we all know, “membership” is the big doctrinal stance among the NC at the moment. I think they feel like they have more control “biblically” when you are a member. Why would you talk about membership on Easter when you have more than a usual amount of visitors? Is that the plan . . . get a first time visitor signed up for a membership class. That would be foolish – no?

Eagle – I’m not surprised about the pressure you felt; ditto for the relative value of women compared to men.

The 3 services that I’ve attended (two at Fairfax; one at Cov. Life) *really* creeped me out.

*

Dee – I’m kind of playing devil’s advocate about Bob Dylan. 🙂 (Though I do think that only God knows the disposition of our souls…)

Mine too!

Eagle –

Hope the rest of your sleep time went better. Those are good words from Dee. Jesus has a lot more good and perfect things to say than Piper or any of the other Calvinista men.

I wasn’t thinking that the sermon was on “membership.” Announcement time is when they would be pushing
membership. I thought it was weird to talk about membership even at announcement time on Easter Sunday. New visitors don’t need to hear all that. Just welcome people on Easter Sunday for goodness sake. Be other oriented not “our church” oriented. Besides, there are plenty of other venues to get the membership word out. But, alas, I imagine that a women wouldn’t know much about hospitality (eye roll).