Dear SGM Interim Board . . .

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever."
Hebrews 13:8 (NASB)

Dee and I first learned about Sovereign Grace Ministries in the fall of 2008, and we are grateful to the SGM Survivors and Refugees who have spoken out against the hyper-authoritarian leadership and spiritual abuse they have experienced.   From the hundreds of blog posts and thousands of comments we have read about SGM, we have heard a common refrain that characterizes this "family of churches".  It is C.J. Mahaney's mantra – "Constant change is here to stay."

What a contrast from Malachi 3:6"For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed." (NASB)

Changes in SGM have accelerated in recent weeks, and they may be just the tip of the iceberg.  As we explained in a previous post, C.J. Mahaney has been reinstated at President of Sovereign Grace Ministries.  You can read about it here in Christianity Today (January 25, 2012).  Mahaney has made it clear that his reinstatement is temporary and that he will be replaced in the near future. 

Just last Sunday Dave Harvey stepped down from the Interim Board as well as from leadership at Covenant Fellowship Church, where he has served as an elder for an extended period of time.  It appears he has some family issues that need his attention. 

Within Sovereign Grace Ministries, change has always come from the TOP down; however, that trend may be changing.  In recent days the pastors of Sovereign Grace Church Fairfax have composed a letter addressed to the SGM Interim Board which outlines their concerns about the current process that is taking place.  This letter has been circulated to select churches in SGM, and other pastors have added their names to the letter.

Jim at SGM Refuge published this letter, and he has given us permission to share it with our readers.  Please take note of two updates from Jim at the bottom of the post. 

It appears that changes in Sovereign Grace Ministries may not always come from the top down…  Only time will tell.  We pray that the priesthood of the believers, which has been terribly marginalized by SGM polity, will become involved in these changes.  That is a change which definitely needs to happen!  We welcome any comments regarding the letter below that was penned by the Fairfax pastors.

Dear SGM Interim Board

See update at the bottom of this post.

Dear members of the SGM Interim Board,

“May the God of endurance and encouragement grant you to live in such harmony with one another, in accord with Christ Jesus that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (Romans 15:5-6 ESV)

We write to you on behalf of the Pastoral Team of Sovereign Grace Church (SGC) Fairfax in response to “An Update from the Board,” that we received on February 27, 2012. These have been very troubling times for our family of churches, and we thank God for you, as you have labored many hours serving as Interim Board members. We continue to pray that the Lord himself will preserve your souls in peace and that as fellow brothers in Christ, we all will remain focused on glorifying God our Savior.

When we received your update, the SGC Fairfax Pastoral Team discussed the changes in the leadership structure, the functions of the permanent Board, and the nomination and affirmation processes. We also reviewed the list of nominees for Board membership. In the light of our discussions, we are declining to participate in the process of affirming these nominees because we believe the process is premature and unwise.

Our Concerns

The process is unnecessarily rushed.

You ask that the online feedback form with affirmations and concerns be submitted by March 7, just 10 days after we received the update. You do not explain your rationale for the urgent timeline. We suggest that it would be better to wait until after Ambassadors of Reconciliation releases its report of findings. We understand that this report will include key weaknesses and strengths in SGM’s cultural norms, polity, and structure, all of which could inform the way we move forward in seating a Board.

Ongoing lack of or contradictory communications

We see an established pattern of a lack of communications, including the absence of regional meetings, over the last several years. The most recent example is that we received your February 27th update without any meaningful conversation about the process involved or the contents of the update. Within the update itself, there is very little explanation about how and why the new Board nominees were selected.

In addition, we have received contradictory communications that make it difficult to know what to believe about the actions being taken by the Interim Board. For example, you had explained in “Sovereign Grace Board’s Response to the [Panel] Reports that your “mandate as an interim Board was to evaluate Brent’s allegations,” leaving a “thorough examination of SGM’s leadership structure … to the next Board.” With your latest update, however, it is clear that you have made determinations about polity outside of your self-described scope.

Lack of diversity among the nominees

There is no doubt that the nominees are upright and godly men. However, the lack of diversity of opinions is of great concern. Such diversity would come by including broader perspectives on polity from all of our churches, as well as representation from the international churches, and would greatly enhance the pursuit of much-needed reforms in our family of churches.

Ongoing polity problems

SGM’s new Board, like the previous and Interim Board, will have great authority without strengthened accountability. In effect, the Board remains self-appointed and self-perpetuating because we have no commitment that you will act on the concerns that SGM pastors express.

In addition, there is a lack of sufficient clarity about SGM as an entity. There needs to be a theological document that lays out the Biblical explanation of SGM that is published, peer-reviewed by those outside our movement, and discussed as a whole by all SGM pastors.

Proposed Way Forward

The plans of the diligent lead surely to abundance, but everyone who is hasty comes only to poverty. (Proverbs 21:5 ESV)

Our dear brothers, we appeal to you to slow down. Please stop and listen to the churches you are connected to and emerge from; create forums for pastors to speak together and with you; and call a council of pastors from each church together to discuss our future and make decisions together.

We make these appeals as one of the founding churches in our family of churches and as fellow followers of Jesus Christ, our Savior, who can redeem all circumstances and make right all relationships. Also attached is a list of churches and their Pastoral Teams who agree with our concerns and proposed way forward.

Please receive this letter as an expression of the desire we all share for the reform of our family of churches. For over three decades, we all have been walking together for the sake and advancement of the gospel. We hope to continue doing so fruitfully for decades to come.

The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you,

Lou Gallo, David Hinders, Vince Hinders, Luke Middleton, Mark Mullery, and Seita Sakaguchi

Sovereign Grace Church Fairfax


The Pastoral Teams of the following Sovereign Grace churches have reviewed, and are in general agreement with, the concerns expressed in the March 7, 2012 response letter from the Sovereign Grace Church Fairfax Pastoral Team to the Sovereign Grace Ministries Interim Board:

Christ Church – San Francisco, CA

Toby Kurth, Tim Chao, Jeff Locke, Jon-Paul Momsen

Christ Our Redeemer Church – Vancouver, WA

Daniel Morse

Covenant Life Church – Gaithersburg, MD

Joshua Harris, Robin Boisvert, Dave Brewer, Don DeVries, Braden Greer, Isaac Hydoski, Grant Layman, Jamie Leach, Joe Lee, Matt Maka, Adam Malcolm, Kenneth Maresco, Corby Megorden, Mark Mitchell, Kevin Rogers, Eric Sheffer, Jon Smith, Ben Wikner

Crossway Community Church – Vancouver, BC

Pat Sczebel, Fred Eaton, Marty Jones, David Smith

Grace Christian Fellowship – Spokane, WA

William Farley, David Farley, John Kershinar, Dave Nelson, Jim Spurgetis, Mark Williams

Grace Covenant Church – Jacksonville, FL

Joe Calabello, Craig Eddy Sr., Ed Edwards

Gulf Coast Community Church – St. Petersburg, FL

Jerry Cisar, Steven Brunson, Daryn Kinney

Sovereign Grace Church – Cleveland, OH

Darren Lander, Roman Bibyk, Bob Digney, Eric Grover, Jonathan Putnam, Brian Reebel, Keith Schifano

Sovereign Grace Church – Greenville, SC

Matt Rawlings

Sovereign Grace Church – Indiana, PA

Mark Altrogge, Stephen Altrogge, Joe Ryer

Sovereign Grace Church – Oswego, IL

Josh Fenska, Jamie Maxim, Tab Trainor

Wellspring Church – Pleasanton, CA

Sam Shin, Justin Chang, Chris Feng, Dan Kim, Thomas Ki


March 8 Update:

I have nothing but respect for the men listed above. Knowing that other SGM pastors are in general agreement the FFX letter, my first response was disappointment by the lack of participation by some teams. I was wrong. One of the participating pastors posted late last night that, “Only a few churches even knew about this letter – it was just voluntarily shared amongst like-minded friends. We are all hoping for reform and in faith that God will help us all honor and please Him in the process.” This was confirmed by another source via email. Makes sense, given the unreasonably short time frame given to pastors to “affirm” the new board nominees.

I think it would wise for other pastors to express their general agreement with the FFX letter to the interim board immediately.

Kudos to the FFX pastoral team for taking a leadership role in this matter.


Update #2:

I’m hearing from other church leaders who were unaware of the FFX letter. Some are sending “in general agreement” notes to the board, some are sending their own letters, and some already have.

The distaste for the interim board’s actions is not limited to 13 churches.


Lydia's Corner:  Jeremiah 23:21-25:38   2 Thessalonians 2:1-17   Psalm 84:1-12   Proverbs 25:15


Dear SGM Interim Board . . . — 32 Comments

  1. Hmmm… I didn’t know there was a SGM church in Greenville. One would have thought it was a terribly plowed-over field considering BJU and all the churches affiliated with that entity, not to mention the strong SBC presence.

  2. Interesting. It’s still hard for me to tell “Who’s on First?” with this group, except that it looks and sounds very controlling.

    I read the CT article for the first time.

    Dee or Deb, one of you posed the question of when Mohler, Dever and others would seriously look at Mahaney and his situation, and make a break from him.

    If CT keeps writing stories like this, that day will never come. CT or some unaffiliated Christian press organ is going to have to really look into this, and report the abuse and problems.

    When that happens, there will be serious questions raised by objective, uninterested third party observers. Until then, Mahaney has cover.

    The blog world has done a good job of writing about this, given the summaries I have read. But the criticism needs to move to an objective, nationally recognized source, such as CT.

  3. Pingback: Dear SGM Interim Board . . . | The Wartburg Watch « CHRISTIAN PARENT HUB- CHRISTIAN PARENT NEWS AGGREGATOR

  4. Anonymous,

    The Ambassadors of Reconciliation report will be coming out sometime this month, and I believe it will expose the serious problems within SGM. We will be watching to see how nationally recognized Christian news sources like Christianity Today deal with this report.

    You may find it interesting to read through the comments under the CT article linked in this post.

  5. I am thrilled to announce that a relatively new blog sgmnation has also published the letter to SGM’s interim board.

    Here is an excellent post over on that blog that is a must read:

    Five Questions Every Sovereign Grace Member Should Be Asking

    Kris over at SGM Survivors has posted this list. Let’s pray that SGMers will be moved to address these important questions.

    SGM Nation features a brief biographical sketch (see below):

    “Follower of Jesus Christ – happily attending a SGM church. This blog is a hopefully reasonable voice of one regular member calling for reform in SGM. It’s important to understand – I’m not disgruntled. I am a current, not former member, and I’m not going anywhere…I’ll be attending my SGM church until they kick me out. Also, this is not about CJ or picking sides. I respect my pastors and count them as my friends.

    However, SGM needs to change if it’s going to continue to effectively serve the members in local SGM churches. All change is hard but let’s get on with it. Let’s not be afraid to disagree. Strong disagreement isn’t rebellious or divisive if it’s done respectfully and in pursuit of truth. I believe disagreement and love for the brethren can occur at the same time and is not an incompatible state.

    And, another thing – I will not be posting often but hopefully when I do, it’ll be something meaningful. Thanks for stopping by”

  6. Deb:

    I did read the comments, and I did find them interesting.

    I don’t know who Ambassadors of Reconciliation is. I don’t know how long they have been around or how much recognition they have.

    I will be interested in the report.

  7. Deb –

    Thanks for posting this on TWW. The questions on SGM nation are spot on – I’m there, doing that. So is the church I belong to. What is amazing to me is the number of people who don’t ask. Many don’t know this “side” of church; not that this “side” of church should exist! And some people, as well as pastors, totally believe in the “way” SGM is run.

    I can tell you I have seen a 50 page paper, written this year by a current SGM pastor, in defense of the top-down apostolic structure with mega scriptural support – proof texted of course. Most people reading it would say, “Well, it’s in the Bible.” I didn’t read it in entirety. I was skimming and got to a flow chart with (A structure something like this) Apostles on the top, senior pastors, then elders, laity, with arrows in between pointing down to the next level — I stopped reading!

    If you read the letter that was sent to the pastors (some now saying stop!) to vote on the new SGM board, you would see that the nine men chosen as possible candidates were chosen by the interim board. The interim board was chosen by Dave Harvey. We see the top-down workings at play. There was a list of qualifications for men to be considered (chosen by interim board, who were chosen by Dave Harvey**). One of the qualifications was “approved by their own local leaders.” The local leaders are chosen by the man who is now seeking their approval. (Hmmm – we see how that works. Could they dare NOT commend him?)

    Another qualification for your name among the “nine” was that their church leadership had signed and, therefore, been in agreement with the church membership agreement with SGM – HUH? Most members in SGM churches don’t even know that a signed membership agreement exists between their church and SGM, OR what is in it! Considering members are told that there is an affiliation with SGM, that SGM “serves” this local church. But the considering member is not given the document to read and see if they agree with it – HUH? Members don’t even see this agreement – HUH? Back to the MAIN point about this agreement . . . this agreement is not in a final form! Many of the churches (maybe half) have not agreed to this document yet and have been evaluatung it with SGM (how this is happening I don’t know, since most of the SGM leaders have literally and sadly fallen). So — these churches are in no way represented in the group of “nine” men who have been chosen** as possible SGM Board Members. (Anyone feeling the love and care yet?)

    On top of the ridiculousness already stated above, the interim board gave the (ONLY ORDAINED) elders on any leadership team 10 days to respond with a vote – WHAT? SGM couldn’t get polity written for three years (still has none) but you-aaawwll have 10 days to vote! JUMP ordained pastors! Especially those who aren’t even on board with the membership agreement!

    Anyone out there screaming yet?

    CJ was – then Dave Harvey was – CJ is again. Oh, maybe that explains some of the crazy! The AoR report is to be out this month. Maybe that is the reason for a quick vote? Gotta get that new SGM board** in place before that report comes out.

    And, FINALLY, some churches (some of which have issues as well) say TIMEOUT! (This article by Deb.)

    Oy! Oy! Oy! God have mercy!

    This is just a “portion” of the goings in the whacky world known as SGM in the last two weeks! I guess CJ CREATES his constant change is here to stay?!

  8. Deb –

    I don’t think it’s alleged. The information came from a real estate listing that anyone can see.

    I think he is off to Kentucky. I have heard that SGM is moving to Kentucky. Someone also posted on Survivors (angrily) that SGM employees were “having” to move and/or losing their jobs. This was somehow the blogs fault! Why would SGM need to be in Kentucky? Why all the expense? Why all the upheavals? Why is their a split with CJ and CLC? (Which is portrayed as Josh’s fault). I don’t know where CJ is getting his “counsel” from for such actions – even his withdrawal from CLC. The letter he sent to CLC was apparently a notice, not a request (as posted by Kris on Survivors). Why no true repentance from anyone at SGM? SGM leaders who are responsible for what has gone on for the past 30 years have ALL stepped down or were demoted, without repentance, or are moving? What does that sound like to you?

  9. By all means let’s just think the best of SGM leaders, and please don’t think about any of those scriptures that talk about being known for your good fruit, wisdom, seeking wise counsel, or weighing a matter. Just be quiet and think the best! (Sarcasm run a muck!)

  10. Bridget
    CJ has never needed anyone’s counsel before. He is the Head Apostle in actuality if no longer in name. He is the big cheese and you all better stop your complainin’ He never cared for the people and this is on more example.You all were means an end. I’ll leave that up for all you to discover what the end is. From my view in the mid range seats, you guys are the bugs on his windshield of life.

  11. Dee –

    It is interesting that you write about his care for people. I have something I should send your way.

    Thankfully, my Savior, King, and brother has a different view of the bugs and their siblings than CJ. I’m stickin to His windshield 🙂

  12. Deb – I don’t hold out much hope for the AoR report, given their association with Ken Sande, and given his association with SGM.

  13. “I’m stickin to His (Jesus’) windshield…”


    Bridget2 you made my day!


    Sopy ;~)

  14. Deb:

    Just read your post on Ambassadors of Reconciliation.

    I am glad that lay people have started groups like this. Who knows? Maybe they can help in some situations.

    I was asked to mediate a dispute in a church recently. Without going into all of the details, there was a lawsuit that had been filed by a man against the member of the church. The plaintiff’s lawyer was the spouse of a staff member at the church.

    My recommendation was basically that it was going to be impossible to figure out who had sinned per Matt 18. That was basically going to be decided in the lawsuit.

    My recommendation was that the parties should not talk about it at church and that the courts should sort it out.

    The spouse lawyer and the staff member seemed o.k. with that. The pastor and elders did not. They kept trying to intervene on behalf of the defendant church member and trying to require the staff member to tell the spouse to withdraw from representation. I kept telling them that the lawyer had an independent professional duty under the law and that the church really did not have a right to intervene in that. And I said that the staff member, even it told the spouse to withdraw, the spouse did not have to.

    What I found is that people often go into situations with such strong expectations, particularly the pastor and church leadership, if they are not affirmed, it is a very hard shock to the system.

    I also found that people look for proof texts to solve all of their problems.

    There was not a verse directly on point in the Bible about this.

    After I gave my advice – stay out of it, and let the courts deal with what appeared to be a legal dispute, the pastor and elders initially agreed. But they could not resist and kept picking it back up, especially when activity in the lawsuit seemed to pick up.

    I would think that groups like Peacemakers and AoR may actually be so “biblically based” that you end up with a proof texting war and what I have often found in Christian disagreements – a very dishonest way of relating and speaking about difficult things, for which there is no easy answer.

    But maybe there will be a good report.

  15. I would think that groups like Peacemakers and AoR may actually be so “biblically based” that you end up with a proof texting war… — Anonymous

    To the tune of “Dueling Banjos”:





    (Banjo riff: both stop quoting and go for each others’ throats…)

  16. Hmmm… I didn’t know there was a SGM church in Greenville. One would have thought it was a terribly plowed-over field considering BJU and all the churches affiliated with that entity, not to mention the strong SBC presence. — Tikatu

    Ah, but those are all FALSE churches. This is the One True Church.

  17. Anonymous
    That was an excellent perspective on the situation at your church. You are a most reasonable and thoughtful man, as this analysis demonstrates. The early church was not above going to the civil authorities to plead their case. For example, Paul was going to Rome to plead his case as a Roman citizen. Although it did not turn out well, it showed his view that clemency deserved a shot.

    I had an interesting conversation at lunch today after church. If one wants to use Matthew 18 as the proof text, then the verse is somewhat null and void if the church covenant was vetted by an attorney. If they church does not advise the signee that (s)he is signing a legal document, then they have not been straightforward. in fact, I contend that they have already gone outside the church for legal advice.

    Now don’t get me wrong. I do not think such advice is wrong. In fact, I think it is advisable. But, the average church member has no idea of the legalities of such a thing and sign these things in the dark, so to speak. I find this practice somewhat deceptive.I wish the churches would advise the signees of this issue.

    The major problem with Peacemakers, et al is that they are indebted to church leaders for their business. They market to the leaders, not to members of the congregation. Human nature makes if very, very difficult to be impartial when your paycheck is dependent on church leaders giving you a call.

    Hmm, I am rambling. I do this every year on the DST. Hope this makes sense! I really loved your comment!

  18. Dee:


    One clarification – it was not my church, thankfully. Our church would know better than to try and direct the professional obligations of the spouses of our staff members.

    It was a church in another state that asked me to come and mediate the dispute.

    The staff member eventually resigned and found another position. The spouse moved to the new church with the staff member spouse and continues to represent the plaintiff.

    The defendant member of the church, who had convinced the pastor and elders that he was being wrongfully sued eventually left the church, too. I don’t know what is happening to the lawsuit, but it continues on.

    So, in the end, no one was happy.

    I had known the pastor for years. We are still friends, but we haven’t talked about this since I concluded the mediation recommendation. The pastor told me that the reason the elders did not like my advice was that it was “too secular” (i.e. did not contain enough proof texting!) They eventually followed my advice, but not until the made several runs at trying to affect the litigation by getting the plaintiff’s lawyer to withdraw.

    My father and mother in law attend a church that went through a big fight over a polity disagreement. Peacemakers was one of the groups that they had looked to as a possible solution. My father in law told me that Peacemakers was going to cost $35,000 or so to mediate the dispute.

    By the way, I did my work for free. Maybe if I had charged $35,000, they would have seen my advice as worthy of following from the get-go.

    I don’t think they ended up using Peacemakers.

    Peace came to their church 2 or 3 pastors later. It just took time and finding a pastor who could live with that congregation.

  19. Dee:

    Our church has a church covenant, but it was not drafted with any lawyer’s advice. It is very short. It basically says that the person is joining the church and agrees to support and pray for the church and the fellow members.

    We have never, nor would we ever, use that as a document to force something on someone.

    It has proven helpful recently. Usually when couples divorce (and we have had a handful over the years) people “get it”, in that they understand that it is helpful for one of the ex spouses to leave the church.

    We never choose which one stays. We don’t pick the so-called innocent party. But it’s pretty typical that one of the spouses is more active than the other, and the other moves on to another church.

    But recently we had a divorce where the husband and wife fought over the membership like it was a country club membership.

    Before the divorce, the wife hardly came. Who knows why. Could have been that the husband was such a jerk that she did not want to come to church with him.

    At any rate, we encouraged them to work out church attendance and let us know what they wanted to do. Neither wanted to leave.

    We did not want to get in a situation where we end up with divorcing couples staying, re-marrying other people in the church, having kids with the new spouse etc.

    So, we said that the church covenant basically says that the member will live in Christian covenant with the other members in the church, and that would be hard to do with an ex-spouse with whom you refused to reconcile. That seemed to make sense to them, and they worked it out somehow. Obviously, the departing spouse is welcome back any time to visit, pick up kids, kids programs etc.

    That is the only time that we have referred to the covenant in any sort of negative way.

    Recently, the suggestion was made that we flesh out the requirements for membership. Right now we have a doctrinal statement and our bylaws simply say that the elders can determine the requirements for membership. To date, that just means belief and confessional baptism (doesn’t even have to be immersion if they were baptized previously as believers by another mood).

    I suspect we will keep simple.

  20. Anonymous
    Most likely I would be quite happy in your church. I wish more churches adopted that line of reasoning. But, they don’t. These covenants are getting more and more explicit. I reviewed one recently that had 8 pages of dos and don’ts. I often wonder when they will decided which diet any overweight person must adhere to in order to avoid church discipline.

  21. Dee:
    Can you imagine church discipline for gaining weight? They’d call it ‘not treating one’s body like a temple’, which would be ‘rebelling’ against the Holy Spirit, the Bible, and thus God. *eyeroll*

  22. mot
    The more I contemplate such things, the more clear it becomes. We want someone to tell us what to do, how to do it and then we can be sure that God will love us. Some people struggle with the concept of grace and prefer to check off a list of rules so they can feel saved.

  23. The problem is these guys are so steeped in this garbage that they don’t smell how rotten the garbage is.

    Brent Dettwyler, for example, was so disgusted with Jared Mellenger’s defense of Dave Harvey that he outed Harvey’s four kids on his blog (that gets quite a few hits in a day.)

    I’m disgusted but he goes on about how he tried to bring the Harveys to face their children’s sin and rebellion and he ended up going on facebook and posting his defense (he thinks he’s suffering like Jesus, too, that almost made me hurl my lunch.)

    So here is my response….

    o I do not approve of the way either you, Dave Harvey, or Jared have handled this situation. I know Harvey and I know his children. His children aren’t perfect but they’re not spawns of satan, either.
    9 minutes ago • LikeUnlike
    Debra Baker What Harvey *did* that was wrong was to hold other people up to standards that were unrealistic and that he could not maintain within his own family…THAT was and continues to be Harvey’s sin.
    8 minutes ago • LikeUnlike
    Debra Baker You, however, have *continued* the practice of sin-sniffing and legalism by nitpicking Dave and Kimm instead of extending grace and love to them. See, the irony is that Dave Harvey kicked me out of covenant for my parenting views. Ohhh, the irony
    6 minutes ago • LikeUnlike
    Debra Baker But legalism, sin-sniffing, holding people up to standards that cannot be obtained, making sin out of normal childhood behavior; these practices do noting to bring honor to God or further the Gospel. Oh, right, the Gospel, that’s right…all of this legalism is for naught because our sins and shortcomings have been taken care of by Jesus on the cross. We don’t need to throw Harvey’s kids under the bus. We don’t need to dismember Debra Baker or her family. All we need to do is accept His free gift off salvation; when was that message preached or blogged?
    3 minutes ago • LikeUnlike
    Debra Baker Jared M. should hang his head in shame, too. In my opinion, he was the cause of children being thrown under the bus. Telling boldfaced lies and broadcasting the same lies across the WWW. Jared, it is a new day and the First Ammendment is en force outside your church’s walls and your lies have been found out and you are the partial cause of the pain that those four innocent children are experiencing.
    12 minutes ago

    Before I could post the last one, Dettwyler ironically deleted it.

    They just don’t get it.

  24. DB – I don’t think any of them will ever get it.

    Which is one reason that I don’t look a Survivors or Refuge very often, as so many of the comments seem to go in circle. (No blame on my part; just an observation.)

    I don’t think that something as messed up as SGM deserves to have any more time spent on its “rehabilitation.” There are times when things have to be scrapped, and I think this is one of them.

    (I also have a lot of sympathy for those who are going through the process of realizing what’s happening around them and trying to figure out what to do next. It can be a long, drawn-out and painful time.)

  25. DB –

    They believe they are the holders of correct doctrine and that the doctrine is the means to the end. They would say that they DON’T believe this, but this IS their functional belief. Thus, it is what we see play out in their day-to-day lives. People have become objectified and Jesus is not capable of leading His Church without their help. “eye roll”

  26. Here is a brief update regarding the leadership at the SGM Fairfax church:
    In November 2011 we gave our story to Ted Kober from AoR in an effort to receive help in reconciling with Pastor Lou Gallo. However, Senior Pastor Mark Mullery and his staff rejected the offer from AoR to intervene.
    During my communication with AoR, they said they were receiving this type of response “across the board” with SGM leadership.
    It is interesting to note that Mark Mullery would challenge the SGM board without first dealing properly with sex abuse issues in his own church.