Eagle – that perfectionism seems (to me) to have come from certain streams within low-church theology. (Especially Methodism and associated Holiness movements – not meant as a slam against Methodism!)

I honestly think that a lot of what you encountered is peculiar to American evangelicalism… and for me personally, learning more about the history + the history of Pentecostalism (and later, derivative movements) has helped me be able to see where certain things – things that deeply affected me – came from.

I have an analogy that I want to use, but I want to preface it by saying that I don’t want to sound like I’m letting abusers off the hook. I can’t – because I’ve been hit hard, too.

But here goes… Did you ever play “telephone” when you were a kid? You know, that game where you sit in a circle and someone whispers a sentence into the ear of the person next to them, and then they do the same – and by the time it gets to the last person in the circle, the sentence bears about zero resemblance to what the 1st person started out with?

I think we are often like that about God, and about religion (no matter what religion it happens to be). We hear garbled “transmissions” from the pulpit (or wherever) and instead of investigating on our own, we accept them as The Truth. (I think younger people are especially prone to this – at least, I believe that I was… even though I had plenty of questions, there were others that “slid” for a long time.)

So often, I think people are in the pulpit to get a reaction from others… that there are MANY people in the ministry who are emotionally and spiritually immature, if not downright messed up. (Of course, there are the good folks, too.) But… someone who cannot deal in a mature, adult way with their own life is NOT going to be able to give much real help to those who are seeking it.

And i fear that far too many denoms allow people to become minsters (ordained or not) without any real evaluation of whether these people are fit for pastoral work.

All this to say that I am so sorry that you were hurt so badly. It should not have happened.

I wish I could take it away.

Lynne Tait,

In some ways I feel like we are just getting started in helping those who have suffered from spiritual abuse. I believe the first step on the road to healing is acknowledging that it has occurred. We hope that those who have been hurt know that they are among friends and supporters here.

Here’s another quote from Luther along the lines of what Dee was saying to Eagle: “May a merciful God preserve me from a Christian church in which everyone is a saint! I want to be and remain in the church and little flock of the fainthearted, the feeble, and the ailing, who feel and recognize the wretchedness of their sins, who sigh and cry to God incessantly for comfort and help, (and) who believe in the forgiveness of sins.”

I’m not sure one could ever find a church where all the people are imperfect and know it. I think that the “super pietistic” phase is just something Christians often go through when they are young. And, as Numo was saying, the “holiness” “perfectionism” “Keswick theology” “prosperity gospel” stuff makes it much worse.

What has really helped me was finding a circle of friends that have grown past that. Perhaps we started out with those ideas; it’s what we were taught. But as we got older, the storms of life, our own failings, disappointment in the false guarantees, etc, forced us out of this point of view. In Lutheran-speak, I’d describe that as moving from a “theology of glory” to the theology of the Cross. — We can still love those who are in the “trying to be super Christian” phase, but i’ve been so blessed to have as my closest friends those who also have had many of their previous ideas trashed by real life, and are aware of their ever-present “old Adam” and how small our steps toward holiness in this life really are.

Re: saints.

A saint is one who is a redeemed sinner, knows that, lives humbly, and works to live as a priest to those around them, loving them in the name of Jesus. A saint is not someone who is holy, but someone who strives to be the hands, feet, face and voice of love to those around them. A church should be full of saints, and an ego desert.

Shato,

Thanks for the posting the link. I’m an LU grad, and this is tremendously shameful. I commented there too.

Wendy,

Thank you for your kind words. Looking forward to reading your thoughts.

Incoming:
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/faithbased/2012/02/mars_hill_pastor_mark_driscoll_faces_backlash_over_church_discipline_case_.single.html#comments

Dee – I LO’d over “‘Slate’ is considered ‘lefty.'” 😉

Sophia will be happy to know that her blog got linked and mentioned in Slate! Congrats Sophia! I hope that it brings more readers and responders to the issue.

Have you guys heard of TrueFaced? It’s a book that has encouraged me in my situation. I’ve been reading 2Peter today. My question is is how do you know if you’re not a wolf or divisive person? I feel like I have to keep reminding myself of the dysfunctional “rules.” What is the difference between a pastor writing their thoughts that make it unhealthy, whereas my story is having a voice? But then, I swing back around and go back to the Word, am astounded by God’s grace, and looking back at the monuments in my life to point back to the victories in my life. In my marriage. In my family. But, I really hate having to process and fight the battle in my head again and again. It gets easier, though, the farther I’m from it… I’m going to check out some of those sites.

Eagle,

“When I think of church I think of a place for the perfect, the elite and when I think of a Christian I think of a self-righteous, arrogant individual who is condescending toward the world and superior.”

I’ll preface my comment by saying that I know genuine, loving Christians who are committed to Christ and truly live out their faith in their relationships with others and the world. They aren’t arrogant, elite, or exclusive. They know they’re imperfect and their lives are imperfect. They’re out there. I know several of them.

With that said, there are many out there who fit your description, Eagle. My husband and I have often seen this too. I’ve witnessed materialism, superficiality, exclusivity, callousness, and “country club” church attendance that left a bad taste in my mouth and is completely contrary to Christ’s teachings.

One time my husband was meeting with two other men in a church we attended. The three of them were leading a large ministry in the church called Celebrate Recovery. At the time, my husband had left a job in which his commission sales had gone down quite a bit, so he decided to try another business. We were spending gobs of time and money (we didn’t have) trying to get his business off the ground. He kept plugging away despite the obvious, because he continued to get (futile) promises of success by the company. It was a nightmare. We had a toddler, a baby, and another baby on the way. When asked how we were doing, my husband shared his troubles with these two men, who were his “friends”. He didn’t ask anything of them, and he only gave them the highlights of the situation (as is my husband’s style – unlike mine). 🙂 He said he will never forget it – they just sat there and stared at him “like I’d just eaten a turd” (my husband’s words), then there was a moment of awkward silence until one changed the subject.

Sometimes, when Christians see other Christians struggling, it contradicts their prosperity beliefs. It doesn’t jive with what they’ve heard for so many years – Come to Christ (and tithe by all means), and you’ll prosper, you’ll have plenty of money, all your prayers will be answered, everything you want will come to you, you’ll be free of sinful struggles and lusts, and so on.

On some level, it’s easier to give money, food, goods, or time to ministries for the poor or to go out witnessing to the unsaved. After all, those are God’s commands to us. It’s MUCH harder for some to reconcile their prosperity gospel with a fellow Christian’s real hurts and problems. (Ironically, that’s what Celebrate Recovery’s mission is – to help one recover from their hurts, habits, and hang-ups.)

By the way, I thought Peter Lumpkins was being sarcastic about going to Caner’s school. I don’t know the history.