FALSE HUMILITY, TRUE HYPOCRISY: A REVIEW OF C.J. MAHANEY’S BOOK HUMILITY, True Greatness

TWW first posted this article on April 9, 2009., a few weeks after we started blogging. In light of current events, we find our thoughts even more relevant today. We have made no changes to the post, so you will see our fledging efforts. We have placed it here for your review for a few days.

 

 

So, C.J Mahaney, the self-professed “Head Apostle” of Sovereign Grace Ministries (SGM) has decided to teach the rest of us egotistical Christians how to be humble. What is so alarming about his book is that many churches are buying hundreds of copies and distributing them to their pastoral staff, church leaders, and congregants. Why alarming? Are we being a bit over the top? Absolutely not and we intend to prove it.
 

A brief history is in order. C.J. barely survived high school and briefly attended college, but dropped out because he became a drug addict (he publicly admits this). He was saved during the Jesus Movement in the summer of 1972 and became a charismatic Catholic. C.J. obviously learned little from the abusive shepherding movement of the 1970s, as his book Humility clearly indicates. Please refer to a previous blog post on topic. He then morphed his ministry into People of Destiny, along with Larry Tomczak who is no longer associated with C.J. Many problems ensued during this permutation as well. Remember the famous quote by Edmund Burke, eighteenth century British statesman and philosopher? He wisely said, “Those who don’t know history are destined to repeat it.” History is DEFINITELY repeating itself in C.J. Mahaney’s ministry.
 

C.J. then got “Reformed”. By this we mean HYPER-REFORMED. See our blog post on this topic. We are coining a new term for this Calvinistic crowd. From this point forward they will be identified as “Calvinistas” on our blog. As the “young, restless, and reformed” Calvinistas attempt to dominate Christendom, we will keep you informed of developments stemming from their divisiveness.
 

Back to history . . . C.J. and Larry Tomczak started a church several decades ago, Larry left the ministry when it became “reformed”, and Sovereign Grace Ministries slowly formed. Today this movement has approximately 75 declared churches. What we are discovering is that there is a growing number of churches that follow the teachings of C.J. Mahaney and Sovereign Grace Ministries without declaring their affiliation. These churches include Southern Baptist, Presbyterian (PCA), and other denominations.
 

Our next statement really goes without saying. Any ministry that spawns three survivor websites should be suspect. These three blogs (there are actually more) clearly elucidate abuses that purportedly occurred within SGM churches. The websites include sgmrefuge.com, sgmsurvivors.com, and ikissedsgmgoodbye. blogspot.com. Please visit these websites for an eye-opening experience. They will most likely cause you to pack up the babies and head to the hinterlands.
 

With C.J.’s participation in these questionable ministries, one would think he would have developed some degree of humility. Incredibly, his prime example of humility in his book by the same title is a broken down car in his driveway. He admits he was embarrassed that he did not know how to fix it. C.J. confesses that he pretended to try to fix it because … ”neighbors might be watching, and we want to at least give the appearance that we have some mechanical knowledge” (p.26). Doesn’t that strike you as a bit narcissistic? Does he really think his neighbors give two hoots about his automotive expertise? C.J. – believe it or not – most of the world couldn’t care less about what you are doing!
 

Incredibly, C.J.’s own words condemn him. On page 34 he says, “Pride also undermines unity and can ultimately divide a church. Show me a church where this is division, where there is quarreling, and I’ll show you a church where there is pride.” C.J.’s history of church leadership is characterized by division and quarreling. Read the blogs we recommended, especially SGMSurvivors.com!
 

He goes on to say that Jesus teaches us that, in order to be great, we must become a servant to others. He claims that that this means nothing less than becoming a slave of everyone. (p.43) He then goes on to give examples of what this kind of slavery looks like in the life of SGM. His examples of slavery run the gamut from parking cars at church to moving across the country to be involved in a “stronger” (read SGM) church (pp 43-46). What baffles us most is that, according to the various survivors’ sites, SGM has little, if any, interest in missions, which is the hallmark of evangelical churches. Instead, SGM declares itself to be a mission as they seek to teach other churches how to do Christianity “the right way”.
 

From what we can tell, “radical slavery” in C.J.’s life looks like this – writing books, speaking at conferences, living in a really nice house, and letting everyone know whom he rubs elbows with, namely Al Mohler, John Piper, and the rest of the Calvinistas. C.J. is a namedropper par excellence! Read his blog as well as his books and listen to him speak. Humility doesn’t exactly ooze out.
 

Finally, it’s mind-boggling that C.J. received no formal theological training; yet, he is the “head apostle” of Sovereign Grace Ministries. In this chief role, he is fixated on indwelling sin. We are amazed by his apparent lack of understanding that God always loves, is always righteous, always merciful, etc. C.J. prefers to discuss what dirty rotten sinners we are and that we are objects of God’s wrath. Yes, we are objects of wrath but we are also objects of His love, mercy and kindness. His emphasis on sin is being terribly misused! You see, if you are sinful, you can’t criticize a problem in your church because your criticism is a direct result of your sinfulness. How convenient that SGM leaders have special grace to lead because their choices are God-directed and not subject to the vagaries of sin like their church members. This certainly seals the deal of an untouchable leadership.
 

One final matter is in order. On page 20, C.J. makes a point that God does not have physical eyes, quoting from John 4:24 that God is spirit. However, at one time in history, God took on human form and, as Jesus, did have physical eyes. He stills has physical eyes in His glorified body. C.J. spends so much time focusing on sin that he forgets that there is a God who so loved the world that He took on human form and dwelt among us. Jesus even enjoyed being with us while he walked among his creation. Where is the portrayal of a loving Savior in this man’s not so humble writings?
 

If C.J.’s book Humility is making the rounds at your church, ask your pastors why they are promoting it. If they become annoyed and tell you that your criticism is invalid, show them this post. Better yet, read the book for yourself and look for the fatal flaws. We have only highlighted a few. If your pastors become angry, you just might be in a church that is going down the troubling road of SGM wannabes.

Comments

FALSE HUMILITY, TRUE HYPOCRISY: A REVIEW OF C.J. MAHANEY’S BOOK HUMILITY, True Greatness — 44 Comments

  1. From Peter:

    Dee, I just wanted to make a comment on your review of CJ’s book Living the Cross Centered Life – comments seem to be closed on that page.

    (1) CJ was raised as a catholic and they obviously emphasise Christ on the cross

    (2) A focus on the cross and our sin, to the neglect of the resurrection, is common amongst reformed evangelicals. I’ve seen statements of faith that include all sorts of calvinist stuff but barely mention the resurrection. It’s unbiblical and harmful.

  2. Your article lists no specific charges for sinful acts or words from Cj nor do you express any hope that he would repent of your unspecific accusations – yet you condemn and chastize him for supposedly loving to focus on someone’s sin.

    I have heard many of Mahaney’s sermons – he is ubiquitous in his proclamation of God’s incomparable love for sinners and it is the centerpiece of every message I have ever heard from him – as it is expressed in Jesus laying down His life for our sins. I urge you to listen to even one and write about it and treat properly in its context.

    Your quote from the book about Cj wanting to view himself as mechanically knowledgable in front of the neighbors is taken out of context by you to serve your view of him (wittingly or accidently I do not know). It was meant as comical self deprecating remark about his own vanity – thus proving him to be proud and vain at times – a trait he admits in his book. You may not have discerned his comical intentions and that may not be your fault – but if you heard the sermon the book was based upon you would find proof you may or may not be looking for.

    You fault him for leading a ministry with no formal education. You shold also fault Peter, John, James and the other disciples (Paul excepted), Abraham, Moses, Joshua and many others in the Bible and many others in Church history over the last 2000 years whom God equips through His spirit and through rigorous informal study. You should also read Paul’s views of the neccesity of man sourced credentials in His letter (2 Cor 2,3,and 4 would be good for a start). They can be helpful and they can also be useless.

    What you don’t know is that he has spent years in non formal degree programs taking classes from theologians like DA Carson and others.

    But after all you have written, it seems obvious you do not know very much about this man’s life or words – rather you place confidence in what you read on blogs and mediums of here-say which may or may not be true and yet, in abroggation of Matt 18, commend themselves as reliable fact for any unquestioning reader.

    It would serve you to know someone well before you seek to malign their character so liberally.

    CJ Mahaney is seeking to put himself before an objective body of believers outside of SGM affilaition – or even an informal relationship – so that accusations against him by one man in particular can be evaluated and he can receive a fair assesment. I hope he finds it and for your own soul’s good I honestly wish you wanted that for him too. But alas – you seem to me to delight in your malice towards him. May God help you not be the very person you accuse him of being. Judgemental, hateful, and arrogant.

  3. Albert,

    We’re learning an awful lot about C.J. Mahaney from the e-mail exchanges he had with Brent Detweiller. Dee wrote this book review over two years ago, and I can assure you that we know MUCH MORE about CJ now.

    Your defense of Mahaney would have been much more believable had it been written before this week’s developments.

  4. Albert

    Could it be your eyes are blind to what is in front of you? This man has led a “ministry” marked by accusations of abuse by those who have poured out their sorrows on blogs. Yet, they have been ignored by people like yourself, until now. CJ has been exposed and those who have revered him are now in a quandary. They have followed a man with serious problems. So, do they admit they were mistaken or take to rewriting the game.

    Do not be further deceived. This man has deep seated issues that have never been dealt with because he has surrounded himself with admirers and weak men who refused to do the right thing.

    Perhaps it is time to reevaluate your paradigm. I am sorry he has hurt you. He has hurt many, many others. Now is the time to face the truth. Please read my coming post on cognitive dissonance on Monday.

  5. I read the wikileaks docs for sgm and the thing that I could not believe about the blackmail cj pulled on Larry is that later on Larry was willing to set up a private face to face meeting between his son and cj. Is he nuts?

    cj not only encouraged Larry’s teen son to confess to him his sexual sin but it was promised to be pastor confidentiality. The only people cj should hve told were the authorities. Instead he used it as blackmail fodder to get Larry to back off about the new focus on Calvinism.

    Then later when CJ needs to shore up his “confession” proof and
    sin stuff Larry is actually willing to set up a private face to face meeting between his son and cj so cj can confess and ask forgivness. What a racket they have going on.

    I wonder why cj cannot put his apology in a letter. We all know why. He can say he confessed and reconciled with no paper trail of pastoral blackmail. There are laws about those things when it comes to confidentiality and even reporting sexual type bullying.

    What I do not understand is Larry. There is no way I would encourage or help a face to face private meeting after that. I would say, write it down and I will let the teen read it but you are to stay away. All Larry did was teach his teen it is ok to be deceitful even when confessing. Now Larry’s son is running for office. Perfect.

  6. Anonymous,

    What you have shared is pretty incredible. Thanks for putting it into words for all of us.

    Do you still think Tomczak will still be a “special guest” at the SGM Pastors’ Conference? Will CJ be there? Will it even happen?

    So many questions…

  7. This is Brent Detwiler’s take on what SGM/Mahaney has said so far:

    On Wednesday, C.J. posted the following. “Over the last few years some former pastors and leaders in Sovereign Grace have made charges against me and informed me about offenses they have with me as well as other leaders in Sovereign Grace.”

    This was a terribly misleading statement by my friend. For many years, men who worked with C.J. tried to help him see his pride, unentreatability, deceit, sinful judgments, and hypocrisy.

    The input C.J. received started in December 2000 and did not come from former pastors and leaders who leveled charges against him because they were offended.

    I hate to say it, but this is an example of Sovereign Grace spin and it was one important reason why I sent out “The Documents” on Wednesday night to all the SGM pastors.

    C.J.’s Blog: http://www.sovereigngraceministries.org/blogs/cj-mahaney/post/Why-Im-taking-a-leave-of-absence.aspx

    The Documents: http://www.scribd.com/sgmwikileaks/info

  8. Lin,

    I just read the post at the link you provided, and it is EXCELLENT!!! Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

  9. One thing about Mahaney is that in the early 90′s Mahaney gave a series of messages on the life of Solomon. In this series Mahaney explained how tragical it was that Solomon started off with such a good start but then had such a sad ending.

    Mahaney went on to list a number of things that Solomon did or didn’t do that contributed to Solomon’s demise. This included not having a “Nathan” that came and rebuked him when he sinned like his father David had. What a shame Mahaney refused to listen to various Nathans in his life. Now he is sadly suffering the consequences of his sin.

    Mahaney also went on to talk about how Solomon became content with conflict and and there being hostility between Solomon and another king. We know how content Mahaney has become with conflict.

    Mahaney also talked about this passage:

    18 When he takes the throne of his kingdom, he is to write for himself on a scroll a copy of this law, taken from that of the Levitical priests. 19 It is to be with him, and he is to read it all the days of his life so that he may learn to revere the LORD his God and follow carefully all the words of this law and these decrees 20 and not consider himself better than his fellow Israelites and turn from the law to the right or to the left. Then he and his descendants will reign a long time over his kingdom in Israel. (Deut 17)

    Maybe C.J. should have followed this instruction. A shame he didn’t follow his own teaching.

  10. Don

    The entire pastoral staff lacked Nathans. The Nathans of SGM are the SGMSurvivors and SGM Refuge, amongst others. The pastoral staff is filled with a bunch of yes men and wusses who, once and for all, prove that women are not the only gender that is gullible and easily deceived.

  11. Did you hear that C.J. Mahaney was coming out with a sequel to his Humility book?

    The title: Humiliation.

    I didn’t think it up but thought it was too good not to post here.

  12. Ted:
    wrt vid 1: How does anyone listen to him preach if he acts like that in (around?) the pulpit. That is real crazy behavior — hyper hyperactive.

    And the second vid is just a little less hyper.

  13. Am I the only one who thinks that video #2 comes off like it was made for a mockumentary?!!!

    I honestly cannot believe anyone takes this guy seriously.

  14. … also: the whole “pre-conversion/post-conversion” narrative in vid #2 is very strange. He was a KID pre-conversion.

    There are so many red flags in this one vid, it’s not funny. (And believe it or not, I had never heard Mahaney speak prior to checking these links, so this is all first impressions.)

    Something seems VERY off.

  15. one last thought on that vid: it’s all “me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me.”

    And – as many, many other people have noted – his body language and speech patterns are (how can I say this politely?)… suggestive of a need for medical evaluation. (*Not* being sarcastic here; there’s a kind of spasticity to it all.)

    I don’t understand why anyone listens to this man, as the way he talks about himself is incredibly self-aggrandizing and … weird. Just plain weird.

  16. Dee said–>”What we are discovering is that there is a growing number of churches that follow the teachings of C.J. Mahaney and Sovereign Grace Ministries without declaring their affiliation. These churches include Southern Baptist, Presbyterian (PCA), and other denominations.”

    I think you are trying to say that there are individual churches within denominations that “follow” CJ and SGM, but this paragraph is a little confusing and makes it sound like denominations are following him.

    I also don’t believe CJ is hyper-reformed. Where are you getting your definition of hyper-reformed and what is it?

  17. Shato,

    You are correct. There are individual churches within the denominations Dee named that hold Mahaney in high esteem. We have made this “observation” of certain churches in our area. It will be interesting to see whether they remove the books written by C.J. and his wife Carolyn off their recommended reading lists.

  18. Shato

    Old Al Mohler came up swinging in defense of Mahaney. If that ain’t proof of certain groups tipping his way, what is?

    We are using hyper in a different way than you are. By this we mean those who are Calvinist+++add secondary doctrines including strong church discipline (not for in but for the sin of asking). That is why I use the term Calvinista instead of hyperCalvinist.

  19. Did you all read this on SGM’s website? The letter from Larry Tomczak?

    http://www.sovereigngraceministries.org/blogs/sgm/post/A-letter-from-Larry-Tomczak-on-his-reconciliation-with-CJ-Mahaney.aspx

    I really think you need to stick to conventional definitions when it comes to terms like “hyper Calvinist”. You could be confusing readers who don’t know what you are talking about. Theologically speaking, SGM is not Hyper Calvinist.

    My take is that CJ does have issues, that SGM has issues but also has a lot of wonderful strong points as well. Maybe they’ll take this opportunity to change their church polity.

  20. Shato

    Agreed on the definition suggestion and will do!

    Can you list the “wonderful strong points?”

  21. Dee,

    I am no theological expert but I am sure there are probably good definitions out there on Calvinism and what is considered hyper and what is not. SGM is not “hyper”.

    I’ve been trying to read some of the documents regarding SGM….there’s so much of it to go through. Even Brent (the writer of the documents) often tells of his love for CJ and the ministry. Clearly Brent loved his time there and loved his family of churches. The man is obviously very deep spiritually and cares deeply for doing the right thing.

    I just wrote down a quote from Brent that I thought was profound…don’t know if it is original with him or not but I couldn’t help but think of LU and Ergun Caner when I read it “Remember, the circle of your sin should be the circle of your confession”. It sounds like a very public repentance is in the works. Rather than delight in the “fall” of CJ Mahaney, we should be praying for things to be made right.

    Well, it’s nearly 100 degrees here…think I’ll go hit the pool.

  22. Shato… I see no “delight” here. I think people have seen this coming for a long, long time – and that it’s brought a certain amount of relief and closure to many.

    That said, there are *so* many wrongs that need to be righted… am sure only God himself knows the whole story. And all the showmanship at CLC isn’t about change, imo, it’s about maintaining the status quo.

    (yes, I’m one of many who characterize SGM as a cult; I’ve been over-involved in similar “churches” and have some scars to show for it. The places where I was are also – again, imo – cults, or at least, extremely cultic.)

  23. First of all, I want to thank Dee personally for spurring me to educate myself on influences and trends in the evangelical world I have lived in for so long. Second, I understand that SGM may or may not be considered hyper calvinist or whatever. However, a couple of years ago, I did visit our local SGM church to hear CJ Mahaney speak for my personal education to see if the things I expected were so. If the bookstore could be considered a window into the theology, it was dominated by Calvinist literature in a very odd sort of way. Lastly, I have had enough of some people’s intense focus or glorification of Calvinism, and legalistic practices,involved in what I see as hijacking of evangelical Christianity. Understand, it is not predestination or Calvinism or reformed theology that I have a problem with- (although I am in the middle where I believe scripture is).

  24. asachild

    Well stated. Also, kudos to you for educating yourself. You sound a lot like us. We, too, went to an SGM church to hear Mahaney.We all have a responsibility as the priesthood to act like it and learn and explore.

    You obviously have come to understand as we have that it isn’t Reformed theology that is the bugaboo, it is a fevered devotion that causes its followers to apologize for Calvin in the same way they would for Jesus. Weird. And it will get worse. We plan to show a few talks by some calvinistas that are down right worrisome.

    As for me, I am neither. I believe that God is far more complex than the simplistic formulas that I am given for answers.

    Thank you for your kind statement.

    Blessings

  25. Shato

    Hmmm, putting Ergun Caner and CJ Mahaney in the same comment sent chills down my spine.Are you trying to give me bad dreams??? Two men, opposite theologies, both appear to have told some whoppers. Funny, no matter the theology, the sin is the same.

    As for delight, I don’t delight in Mahaney’s debacle. I am glad that some things have been revealed to give people, who have been deeply harmed, some validation. They deserve that. And CJ deserves this time of serious questioning. he has escaped the consequences of his involvement in shepherding and has morphed into Shepherding, The Sequel-Calvin Rising.

    I am praying for the healing of those who have been harmed. CJ has tons of people praying for him. How many are praying for happymom, Noelle’s child and many, many others who have experienced terrible pain at the hand of cold, idiots who thought more of their own authority than expressing the love of Jesus.

  26. Ted

    Thank you for the vids.

    There is something mega creepy about a guy proclaiming himself to be the worst sinner that he knows with a great big grin on his face. The smile belies his assertion. If he doesn’t stop with this nonsense, I am going to agree with him and be done with it. OK, let’s do it here and now. CJ Mahaney is the worst sinner in the world. Now, can we get on with real concerns.

    He also has this way of pretending humility. All those other guys are pastor theologians. he is a pastor athlete. This an an athlete who didn’t make it past high school or submit himself to the rigors of anything formalized. He is a pastor dilettante.

    Also, he makes me jumpy when he speaks. I saw him at a church. He spent a long time telling jokes and speaking about games he had attended and where he had sat. This guy is a name dropper extraordinaire. Humility is not something that exudes from this expert.

  27. Deb

    Remove his books????? Good night, he will write more and be insufferable about how he truly experienced why he is the worst sinner in the world. This thing was an orchestrated event and we have been sucked into their screenplay. We’ve been had, big time.

  28. Arce

    This is exactly how he speaks. Deb and I saw him. One has to be of a certain mindset to get his style. I am not one of those. He creeps me out.

  29. TED

    The Jungle Book video was right on. “I just want to give you a big hug sssssssssssssssss”
    I needed a laugh.

  30. Pingback: Sovereign Grace Ministries and Responsible Authority « Questions 4 Christians UNITED STATES

  31. Any further thoughts on:
    PDI/SGM Senior Pastor and Songwriter Caves to Leaders in Early 1990’s

    I don’t know where you stand doctrinally, but why all the fuss? Brent and CJ and all the other SGM leaders and their underlings should not be upset about any of the things that are going on at this time since God foreordained it from all eternity. Right? Over and over again their own theology mocks them.

    My wife and I were part of a PDI/SGM church for over 10 years. I had been an assistant homegroup leader. When the radical change in doctrine occurred I strongly spoke out against it. At that time hardly anyone, if anyone, in our local congregation agreed with TULIP. But they eventually became heavily indoctrinated, (sort of the way the JW’s do), as had our pastor previous to that. At one point, before my pastor gave in, during the second of the two three-hour knock down face to face meetings, I asked him how long he had been a Christian. It was like 25 years. I asked him if during that time he read God’s Word regularly. The answer was yes. Then I asked him if he read it prayerfully during that time. Again the answer was yes. Then I asked him when he came to believe in TULIP. He knew at that point he was just busted and uncomfortably admitted that it had been about two years earlier when CJ started propagating and later pushing it on people. My pastor agreed to read any book of my choice which took an opposing view to Calvinism. I asked him to read Robert Shank’s “Elect in the Son”. He read it and about three weeks later came up to me before a church service he called me aside and very quietly and almost secretively told me that he completely agreed with Robert Shank’s position.

    Now he had to break the news to Brent or Dave Harvey or whoever was “Over” us at that time. They were panicked as he was one of their main songwriters. He had actually discussed pulling some of his songs that had a Calvinistic bent to them. He was asked to write a position paper and he asked me to help. I did, but it was very lengthy. So he wrote his own, which was very pointed and well written. He then submitted it to the PDI leadership. Also during that time he had even seriously talked with me about leaving PDI, and we discussed whether or not he should turn the church building over to them. After submitting his paper he was asked to “dialogue” with them on the subject. When I asked him how the supposed dialogue was going he said that they gave him several books to read and discuss, like Anthony Hoekema’s “Saved by Grace”. Then CJ even invited him to speak at CLC, which of course was PDI’s mothership. I very much doubt if he would have ever smelled CLC’s pulpit had they not been going all out to dissuade him from what he actually believed. It was either conform, conform, conform, or out, out, out.

    Towards the end of our time at that church I continued to address many of the following things listed below, but our pastor refused to hear. I had been saying and have continued to say that:
    - PDI/SGM leaders and local pastors are elitists who think they have a corner on the truth; they are very proud and arrogant; they view themselves as the enlightened ones, while viewing all other Christians and their church affiliations as the unenlightened; in other words, those who do not agree with their theology are looked down on as second-class Christians and denominations; they are manipulative and controlling; much of the time they act like a bunch of clones; and that they are absolutely obsessed with TULIP.

    Over the years there has been lots of hypocrisy and a clear double standard regarding how they treat certain people and the way they treat certain other people. I’ve always likened SGM to the Holy Roman Catholic Church. At the very top you have the infallible Pope CJ. Then the cardinals, arch-bishops, bishops, priests, etc.

    In his 7/10/11 Sunday evening message at CLC it was refreshing to hear Josh Harris finally admit to several of the same things. In Brent’s “documents” I found the part about CJ blackmailing Larry, Doris, and Justin sickening and reprehensible. Isn’t it interesting how even though CJ is supposedly so close and in tune with God, it took him some 13 years to acknowledge his sins of pride, hypocrisy, manipulation and mistreatment of others; and now finally he has gotten around to making things right with Larry. It so obvious, as is evidenced in Brent’s documents what an idol Reformed theology is within SGM. Case in point, within these documents, CJ stated that it would have been OK and that he wouldn’t blackmail the Tomczak family, if Larry left the movement, but did not say that it was over “doctrinal” differences. It has become clear that CJ is not the most humble person on the face of the earth. As a movement they need to realize their facade of humility is nothing more than false humility, which of course is just another form of pride. It is apparent that CJ has always craved adulation and the leaders of PDI/SGM have always fallen over each other when introducing each other. And if they happen to be introducing one of their gods like RC Sproul it is downright scary.

    As a post script I want to state that before CJ changed in the early 1990’s, he was my very most favorite Christian teacher. In my cassette/CD library I have by far more of CJ’s messages than anyone else. Unfortunately, his desire for prestige, power, and recognition made him the lesser man that he is today.

  32. “I don’t know where you stand doctrinally, but why all the fuss? Brent and CJ and all the other SGM leaders and their underlings should not be upset about any of the things that are going on at this time since God foreordained it from all eternity. Right? Over and over again their own theology mocks them”

    I think they are using this idea to their advantage to some extent. Since they are promoting the idea that God is disciplining them doesn’t that suggest they believe God was pleased with their doctrine and behavior from the start?

  33. Zenith

    I am so tired of the lack of kindness and pastoral care exhibited by the SGM leadership. Your story shows, once again, the fallacy of their approach. It is their way or the highway. It’s all about hurry, hurry, hurry, CJ has a new belief. You must march lockstep and shut up that we didn’t always believe this. We will pressure you, cajole you, we will tell you to go and get lost. Sick!

  34. I am sorry this has happened. We all need more humility. And I think taking on the task of writing a book on Humility is one of the most dangerous acts you can engage in. I am a Charismatic Southern Baptist (rare as they are) who would love to engage with more of the same. It is time we “come out of the proverbial closet” and introduce this enormous and important denomination to the third person of the trinity. Please respond to sbckairos@gmail.com