Ed Young Jr. Update: Tries to Hide Behind Copyright Law – What a Wuss

“Shun, as you would the plague, a cleric who from being poor has become wealthy, or who, from being nobody has become a celebrity.”
—Jerome

 

 


Ed Young Jr.

 

 

 

Well, well, well-Ed Young Jr. , who harangues the men to act like men in his congregation, just put on his little girl panties and had videos removed from VIMEO, claiming "copyright infringement." What a pile of codswallop!  Tom Rich, over at the FBC Jax Watchdog, first reported on this story a few days ago. Here is the link. The comments at the site are fascinating. Way to go, Dawg! 
 

As some of our readers know from our previous series on Young, I was a member of Fellowship a number of years ago. So this story holds no small measure of fascination for me. We promised our readers that we would update this story as events unfold. And with Ed at the helm, combined with his love of media face-time, you can bet that this will not be our final post on the matter.
 

There is some controversy that the removal of the VIMEo videos may be a violation of Fair Use laws and there are some folks looking into the matter. There is a possibility that these videos may go back up. We will keep our readership posted.

 

I bet our astute readers can figure out which videos are MIA. That’s right. The ones that showed him giving a sermon on how to sign over routing numbers and automatic deductions to Ed, whoops, I mean the church. You can read about this asinine sermon on TWW entitled "It's All About the Money"  at this link. However, thanks to Ed’s inability to stand the courage of his convictions, you won’t be able to watch the embedded video.
 

That’s OK. Here’s a quick synopsis of events. Ed appears to be a bit concerned about money flow into his church ever since he was discovered living in a mansion, owning a beautiful condo in Miami, flying around in a private jet, using an espresso machines that most of his congregation could never afford, driving sweet cars and generally making bank with his salary. Apparently, his congregation, which once figureded in the 20,000 range, saw some slippage when a number of members took exception to their pastor living high on the hog on their tithes and decided to bolt. We received a number of comments on this blog, purportedly by some of said renegades.
 

“Tithes?”, you say. Yep-ol Ed claims he has all of these wonderful playthings because he gross tithed all of his life. And he wants his church members to have nice stuff as well. How do you obtain such niceties? Gross tithe to Ed’s church! And, just so you won’t be tempted to use your tithe to pay for food or your creditors, he wants you to give him your checking account number and your bank routing number. And dear Ed will remove the money from your account to HELP you be godly and, in so doing, you can get a mansion, just like Lisa and Ed.
 

This informative video showed Ed, bleeding heart that he is, giving an expository sermon on how to fill out the tithe card. On big screens, located around the auditorium, there is a check featured with all the significant numbers circled. Then he lets everyone know that, if they don’t tithe, they are stealing from God. He even said that people who don’t tithe to God might even steal from their fellow church members. You know, once a thief, always a thief. Takes one to know one, I always say.
 

Needless to say this did not go over well and he received bad press, all over the blogosphere as well as all over some pulpits, for his lack of social graces. We received comments at TWW, which you can read, which report that more people are leaving Ed’s flock. I am not sure how many more excuses people need to exit stage left. The ones who are left are living testimony that there are suckers born every minute.

 

I guess this action is supposed to be damage control but it will not work. We refer you to a story we did on secrets called “Shhh Don’t Talk." Here is the link.

 

Pastors believe that they can deep-six sinful actions on their part by telling people not to talk about it . They spiritualize this mandate by calling it “gossip” and, of course, gossip is unbiblical, isn’t it? They define gossip as negative speech pointed in the pastor’s direction.
 

One would think that pastors, along with politicians, would learn from famous bad examples that you cannot keep negative press at bay for long. John Edwards (sorry, he's in the news here in NC again today), Mark Sanford, Ted Haggard, Eddie Long, etc. are living testaments that bad news travels fast.

 

The Solution
 

Mark Twain said “Always tell the truth, that way you won’t have to remember what you said."


Ed Young should put the videos back up and do one of two things. Either say “So what-I stand behind it” or “I am so, so, so, so, sorry and can you forgive me?” Then he needs to sell the mansion, plane, condo and espresso machine and do a David Platt or a Francis Chan. He would redeem himself immediately because people love a good redemption story and are usually quite willing to forgive.
 

 

Pastors, in general, need to stop hiding behind lawyers and start acting like real men instead of wusses. Yes, a church might get sued for copping to the truth. So what? The church is held in God’s hands, not ours. If we really trust Him, we will relinquish control and actually start acting like Christians instead of Infomercial pitch men.

 

 

I know that my tone is sarcastic but I have to admit that I am tiring of Ed Young Jr.'s game. He appears to be just another charismatic pretty boy who has used the church for personal financial gain. However, his veneer is starting to wear thin and he is morphing into the person he used to preach against-just another "same ole, same ole."

 

Lydia's Corner: Leviticus 7:28-9:6 Mark 3:31-4:25 Psalm 37:12-29 Proverbs 10:5

 

 

 

 

Comments

Ed Young Jr. Update: Tries to Hide Behind Copyright Law – What a Wuss — 56 Comments

  1. “he only thing I object to in your post is the fact that you called him a pretty boy”

    Well, I have met him…back stage…and he does not get that wind swept hairdo by accident…it takes lots of work and hair product to get the “tousled” look. I don’t know a lot of men who are into that. But the ones I do know are “pretty boys”.

    But I guess it is snarky to say that…even though it is truth that he is quite concerned with his hair.

  2. D and D,

    They literally do not know what to do when the money stops flowing freely. They panic. Nevermind that the media just a few months earlier did a lifestyle of the rich and famous hit piece on your “leased” jet and bloggers are passing around your youtube video of your $10,000 espresso machine you are showing off…nevermind that….the money is not flowing and it is panic time.

    Most of them are not as obvious as Ed….poor Ed is just a microcosm of a much bigger problem. He is the exaggerated version of every mega churches problem…too much money..

    They are addicted to it and cannot operate without the flow. It is a lot to keep afloat in the same grand style. When your electric bill is 20,000 per month for buildings that are empty 2/3 of the time, you can imagine the problem. Think of it, even the problem of cutting back means it takes a long time to heat or cool a building that size before the “guests” come.

    I think the part that really bothered me the most (aside from the fact the leaders never offered to take a cut in pay) is that they always nickled and dimed the vendors to death trying to get freebies. That was normal procedure…as if the businesses should sell to them at cut rate because they are a church. I worked with mega’s who make a deal then AFTER the product was delivered, beg for a deep discount and imply that they would never do business again without it. .

    But then the church bookstore sold everything keystone! And expected the members to pay full retail because it was a church.

    These people have lived in a bubble so long they have no real clue. But what is amazing is that people think it is normal because it is a “church”. They never really look at the big picture and ask the hard questions. They never see the hypocrisy in how they do business.

    I think Ed is actually helping people do that. I expect some other mega church pastors wish he would go away….

    An old friend of mine called me the other day becaus she went to the Christmas Eve service of a former mega I worked with. She was really put out about the service. It was nothing but a story about his Christmas present to his wife: New dining room chairs. (very expensive ones) He had many pictures of them on the IMAG and went on about them in detail. She was wondering what this had to do with the Birth of our Savior but was even more upset because she knows how many people have lost jobs in that area and are wondering how they are going to pay their mortgages….yet this is what the “pastor” talks about.

    I just told her that they don’t really get it…that particular pastor has been a kept man since he was about 26 when he started there as a junior pastor and is now almost 50. He has no clue because that church has kept him in a very nice income all those years. About 10 years ago, he built a huge home on a golf course. He really ignorant of the real world. Yet people will listen to his 3 pt sermons on how to live. (Most of them are lifestyle sermons).

    This is a man who told the elders years ago, he needed much more income because his wife was pregnant with their 3rd child. Why don’t you all try that one at work and see if it works for you…..of course, they gave it to him.

    These guys have NO clue. So, why are people hanging on their every word? Because they have no clue what a true eklessia is really like.

  3. Lydia

    If i remember correctly, I received a comment about Fellowship Church having some issues with paying vendors. If that is true, why do I get the feeling that Fellowship church had no trouble paying the Ed vendor?

  4. Deb

    I have been laughing an laughing over that video. If the newspaper reports are true, he is going to marry Rielle soon. What a mess. And to think he could have been president or vice president with this all happening.

  5. Tom

    I think that a few of our megachurch guys believe that the cuter they are, the more relevant they are. However, they don’t realize that, as they age, they start looking a bit long in the tooth-kind of like Mick Jaegger.Old Jumping Jack Flash is looking a little worse for the wear these days. 🙂

    Funny thing, Jesus was considered nothing to look at physically. His draw was not his looks or his dress. It was the burning spirit that compelled those around HIm to seek Him out. So, those without the burning spirit substitute veneers and fancy britches.

  6. Dee,

    You ladies are like the muckrakers (investigative journalists) of old. Keep putting the info (so long as it’s lawsuit-proof) out here and exposing these charlatans for what they are; predatory wolves.

    No wait! , that’s an insult to wolves, who happen to be some of the better stewards of God’s eco-system.

  7. “Just another charismatic pretty you.” You have got to be kidding. With that elongated face, over-sized teeth, extra large, wide-set eyes, accompanied by ample ears and a shaggy yellow mane, he doesn’t resemble any tv or movie star today. However, there was one from the 60’s and 70’s. Come to think of it, his name was Ed, too. Just another horse’s…oh well.

  8. QUESTION: Does anyone have any hard evidence and/or facts about the actual attendance at the Fellowship Church these days? In there info, I am sure they publish what Ed says print/publish, but I wonder what the “real attendance” has been since the leased Jet debacle, and now the tithe fiasco was brought before the public. If indeed people are catching on to what is going on behind the scenes, then many will start leaving and going else where. So, if anyone knows the attendance trend, PLEASE post it here on this webiste ASAP. Of course, the giving records will also follow the attendnace trends. Thanks, as I would love to see the figures soon.

  9. We, too, are interested in the attendance. I know this blog is followed by recent members. If you can get us some numbers, we would be happy to highlight them in another post.

  10. Jim
    By pretty boy, I mean those guys who spend time trying to look younger and hipper than they are. That doesn’t mean they look good. In fact, some of them end up looking like parodies of their former selves-Mick Jaegger comes to mind. Ah to grow old gracefully.

  11. Lydia, you are kinder than I am. I was not defending the guy. I was saying that calling a man “pretty” who looks like he had his face stretched and pulled by the same doctor that worked on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills is incredibly generous of you. I’d have accepted “awkward” in place of pretty. Or just plain “creepy”.

    Sorry*, I just want to vomit over 95% of the Christian famous people who are referred to as attractive ’cause most of them look way too fake in a “I got caught in a make-up/hairspray/tanning booth fight and I lost” kinda way. So the only criticism I had about your whole post was that you were being too generous. Yes, normally I am not mean, but when I see a man wearing hair-spray, it speaks volumes to me about his social skills and ability to relate to others. And yes, I know, some man reading here may be wearing hair spray. And I know the “right” thing to do should be to apologize and say I’m sorry. But the loving thing to do would be to tell you to go wash it out and throw all of your hairspray out.** (This does not apply to women.) Then find a new hair person stat. Trust me, you’ll feel better in 6 months.

    *And when I say sorry in this case, I’m not really sorry, just aware that I am coming across as a heartless person, but trust me, I’m only helping someone here. If nothing else, I know and understand hair in our culture and since it is no longer 1980 and Ronald Reagan is no longer our president, hair spray for men speaks more about a man’s desire for control than it does about any fashion statement.

    Signed,
    Stunned
    a woman born with a truly crappy head of hair

    ** Unless, of course, you are Goth or any other alternative lifestyle that would require to wear your hair in spikes or standing straight up in the air. But uber fake hair needs to go in all other cases. (And yes, I’m pointing my sights directly at you, all my southern baptist preacher friends. 😉 )

  12. Lydia said, “An old friend of mine called me the other day becaus she went to the Christmas Eve service of a former mega I worked with. She was really put out about the service. It was nothing but a story about his Christmas present to his wife: New dining room chairs. (very expensive ones) He had many pictures of them on the IMAG and went on about them in detail.”

    I think I am going to be sick.

  13. Opps, opps, opps, opps! I’m so sorry. I attributed the post to Lydia, rather than to Dee. Dee, you are the one who is incredibly kinder and more generous than I am. (Judging by my post above, that’s not a hard feat to accomplish.)

  14. Stunned

    Once again you made me laugh. i agree. he is no pretty boy but he is trying to be. And the slicked back pastor hair thing has always been a private source of amusement for me. Who started that deal anyway? Its kind of like CJ Mahaney’s clones shaving their heads. Its all rather bizarre if you ask me.

    BTW, I like being called nice. It is not usually the first thing people think about me especially after they read this blog. Now I can say that someone thinks I’m nice!

  15. Dee said, “Funny thing, Jesus was considered nothing to look at physically. His draw was not his looks or his dress. It was the burning spirit that compelled those around HIm to seek Him out.”

    Amen! I love that scripture points out that Jesus was probably not one to attract others, physically. It is a comfort to many. Think about it, Jesus could have made himself the most attractive person ever. Instead, he chose to take on a more humble form. So glad that He can relate to the rest of us!

  16. I agree with Tom, that video of Edwards was frightening.With Ed, it is silk shirts, jeans and the tousled look.

    You guys might be shocked at how much plastic surgery that goes on in certain Christian circles….

  17. I have been reading your blog for sometime and have never been disappointed – until now.

    Ed Young announced today that he and his family are moving to the slums of India to minister to the poor for the rest of Young’s expected life in ministry.

    Young said that’s worked so well for Francis Chan, that he thought God was calling him to do the same.

    One reason Young and the church lease (or bought?) the jet, is to get the Young family to India quickly.

    In addition, the Youngs are adopting children – 4 to be exact. One from the African Continent, one from China, one from Central America and one from Russia.

    The removal of the videos was all part of a plan leading up to making the Fellowship a low key place – in advance of the Young’s upcoming public taking of vows of poverty, which he is negotiating to be covered by all of the local network stations as well as CBN. Paul Crouch has lined up an exclusive one on one interview.

    If you had been following the news coming out of the Fellowship recently, you would have known these facts and would have seen how the removal of the videos is actually glorifying the Lord and not to hide something embarrassing, as you suggest.

    I wish both the best in your continued blog activities, but hope that in the future you will get all of the background info before posting something like this.

  18. Anonymous

    Darn it! I thought I knew it all. How wonderful that Paul Crouch has the exclusive-my understanding he is praying that God will miraculously transport the family to India so he can have the jet- to bring them supplies and clean water, of course.

    Since you have the inside track, could you help me with the following questions

    -Will there be a tanning booth brought along so he can still look good on location?
    -Will he enter a 12 step program to deprogram from fancy espresso to Folger’s Instant?
    -Will Lisa cut her own hair?

    Also, we are always interested in having crack background fact checkers join our multi-million dollar blog enterprise. Have your people give my people a call. And while you’re at it, can you check if John Edwards proposed to Rielle?Its a hot story here in the boonies.

  19. Hi Anonymous,

    There are a few things (just a couple) you said that either confused me or gave rise to a few questions. I hope you don’t mind if I ask you about them.

    Above you said, “Ed Young announced today that he and his family are moving to the slums of India to minister to the poor for the rest of Young’s expected life in ministry.”

    I am curious. Did he define what he meant by the rest of his expected life in ministry? I don’t know how old he is (I am guessing in his 50’s), but did he say at what age he was planning on retiring from ministry? (Sometimes people retire young and others never retire from ministry, choosing to stay in ministry until death.) So it made me wonder if this was going to be a short term thing (15 years or less) or if his vow of poverty was going to be for the rest of his natural life.

    You also said, “One reason Young and the church lease (or bought?) the jet, is to get the Young family to India quickly.”

    This confuses me. It is much quicker to buy a ticket and get on a commercial airline (Air India for example) than it is to shop for and purchase an airplane. Much quicker. Even if it is leased, it is still much faster to buy a ticket from an already set up airline. Just for the heck of it I just went to travelocity and found a flight that leaves from the airport near his home and goes to Mumbai. It leaves in less than 21 hours. They have flight every single day. Can you please shed some light onto what I am missing here?

    “The removal of the videos was all part of a plan leading up to making the Fellowship a low key place – in advance of the Young’s upcoming public taking of vows of poverty, which he is negotiating to be covered by all of the local network stations as well as CBN. Paul Crouch has lined up an exclusive one on one interview.”

    These sentences confuse me. He wants to make it a LOW KEY place so he’s taking a PUBLIC vow of poverty? AND he is negotiating to have this public vow covered by TV stations, both locally and nationally. What exactly is he negotiating with? I mean, negotiations imply give and take. What is CBN and the others offering if there are negotiations involved? And how is this LOW KEY? Can you see how I am confused?

    “If you had been following the news coming out of the Fellowship recently, you would have known these facts and would have seen how the removal of the videos is actually glorifying the Lord and not to hide something embarrassing, as you suggest.”

    Again, I may be completely missing something. How is the removal of the videos glorifying to God?

    You also said, “In addition, the Youngs are adopting children – 4 to be exact. One from the African Continent, one from China, one from Central America and one from Russia.”

    Wait, they are adopting four children at once? From all over the world?! At once?! This is extremely disturbing. I am a HUGE proponent of adoption. Half of my neices and nephews are adopted. The trauma of children having to go from their home culture into a new one with a new family is more than most of us realize. (It’s quite often a wonderful thing in the long run. Not bad at all.) But children in these situations often need an AWFUL lot of individual attention. To adopt four different children from four different parts of the world at once, and then at the same moment, move them to a culture that no one in the family (including the parents) are a part of is a terrible trauma that should not be visited on anyone. This one is not a question on my part. Just more of a “That is horrifying!” statement. If they are so concerned for these four children, by all means, provide for ways so that four families who would kill for a child but can not afford to adopt these precious ones can do so. But please, Young family, I beg you not to put these four children through that special kind of hell.

    Wait, I just realized. He is taking a vow of poverty but is adopting four new children? Do they not realize the responsibility of raising children? When one takes on the responsibility of children, one must also provide for these children. To take a vow of poverty when one does not have to and then bring four children into your new lifestyle is selfish beyond measure. Again, I beg you, please bring those four children into four individual homes so that they can be properly cared for, fed and loved.

  20. Stunned,

    Thank you for making those great points so clearly. I had a neighbor adopt a young girl from Russia, if I recall (and this was 10 years or so), the price tag for her was upwards of $15k and I’m not sure if that included the round trip airfares, so imagine my surprise when someone wants to take a vow of “poverty” and simultaneously adopt not, 1 or 2 but 4 children…yeah some poverty.

  21. Moreso, given the costs of not only the international adoption, but the on going needs of children, any children,…. Let me restart this sentence.

    Like I said, I have a lot of secondary experience with adoption. I have looked into it for myself at one point in life. (For me to adopt, not be adopted. Though after some family get togethers, getting adopted into another family DOES cross my mind. 😉 ) Anyway, one of the earliest hurdles to leap when you want to adopt is proof that the children will be raised with a certain income level and in a certain manner. And yes, this is applicable to children coming from poor countries, as well. I have never, in all my years, heard of ANY country or adoption agency that would allow a child to be adopted into a family living in poverty in the slums of Mumbai or any other slum in India.

    Am I missing something? Anyone else involved in adoption have any information I am missing?

    This all is not just fishy. It reeks of deception and lies.

    And to LIVE in a slum? Does this mean to live in the neighborhood of, where one can hire a maid for a few pennies a day? A nanny and cook for a few pennies more? Where one can acquire many things for little money?

    And now that I am thinking about it—- what are the Young’s standards for their vows of poverty?

    The 2008–09 poverty threshold in the US was measured according to Department of Health and Human Services Poverty Guidelines. The US standard for Poverty in 2008-2009 are in the table below.

    1 person- $10,830
    2 people- $14,570
    3 people- $18,310
    4 people- $22,050
    5 people- $25,790
    6 people- $29,530
    7 people- $33,270
    8 people- $37,010
    For each additional person, add $3,740

    They already have four children, but I don’t know how old each one is. They are supposedly adopting four more. That makes 8 kids. Ten people- so the US standard for a family of ten is approximately 45K. If we assume that all four of their first set of kids are grown, it may be as low as 29.5K. Now the question is, are they going to give up all their stuff and live on 29.5-45K per year? If they have to find housing and give up ALL of their belongings, then yes, they will be living at the US poverty level. Along with 39.1 million Americans. Welcome to the crowd, my friends!

    Now if they move to India and try to live off of between 29.5-45K a year, they wil be relatively rich there! (If I were them I’d start with making appointments for daily massages!!!!!) So is their vow of poverty then flying to India in their personal plane (wait, wouldn’t a vow of poverty mean that they have to forgo a plane?! If not, I’ll take a vow of poverty if it comes with a private plane and all accoutrements!)…. so if they take a vow of poverty then move to India, is this a vow of Indian poverty standards?

    By World Bank estimates, 80% of India’s population lives on less than 2$ a day. According to a 2005 World Bank estimate, 41% of India falls below the international poverty line of US$ 1.25 a day. So will the Young family be taking a vow of “american” poverty and then move to India and live as rich people? Or will they be taking a vow of Indian poverty and live on less then $2/per person/per day for life?

    You can see how that would be two extremely different lives, can’t you?

    And, how long will this poverty last? Till death for Ed and his wife? Will they live in an old age home paid for by the government as all others who live a life in poverty have to do?

    I have lived poor and I have lived comfortable. For me, the worst part of poor was the fear. Was worrying for the future. If the Youngs have money in “storage” for their future or for medical emergencies, then they ain’t living poor baby. They’re just slumming it for a while. Heck, that makes the whole thing FUN in my book.

    Sign me up for a private plane ride to India and a little living among the peeps any day.

  22. St Paul, writing with regard to what the leaders in the church should be like, states:

    1 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, NOT GREEDY FOR MONEY,but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; 4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?)1 Timothy 3

  23. “One reason Young and the church lease (or bought?) the jet, is to get the Young family to India quickly.”

    This is a good one! Nevermind he had it for quite a while so it could take him to his condo in Fla and all over. Nevermind his church did not know about it but was paying for it.

    Methinks Anon is having some fun with Ed. But you know, when your church is disintegrating before your eyes after media exposure, the routing number debacle did not work, perhaps this is another Ed Show. He is a showman and needs some shock and awe to win some folks over….

    I was hoping he would leave ministry and get on as a promoter with WWF which his persona fits to a T. He is not slick enough for Madison Ave.

  24. Anonymous said (among other intriguing things):

    “Ed Young announced today that he and his family are moving to the slums of India to minister to the poor for the rest of Young’s expected life in ministry.”

    — and —

    “I wish both the best in your continued blog activities, but hope that in the future you will get all of the background info before posting something like this.”

    Anonymous,

    I just listened to Ed’s sermon which aired on television January 9, 2011.

    http://www.edyoung.com/watch.php

    Are these Fellowship Church messages broadcast on TV a week after they are delivered? If so, I can hardly wait to hear the one you have described!

    I did see Ed’s advertisement of his upcoming C3 conference, featuring Joyce Meyer and Brian Houston. Will they be joining him in India?

  25. Deb
    Rumor has it the Al Mohler and John Piper, along with Mark Driscoll and JD Greear, are also joining in, launching the first wave of evangelical ecumenism . However, Mark Dever cannot because he would be forced to share communion with John Piper- the evil pedobaptist. He will be starting a separate mission to Asia, attempting to ally himself with Francis Chan. KUMBAYA,baby!

  26. Shepherding Survivor

    You should hear the spins I have heard on this verse. “I wasn’t looking for money, God just blessed me because I tithed.” “If you tithe, you aren’t greedy. God wants you to use your money to have nice things.”

    We will doing our series on spiritual abuse with a few new spins. One thing I have learned in this study is how people misuse the Scripture for their own ends, and that includes Young, SGM, etc.

  27. Lydia

    WWF- great idea! A great second career for him although I kind of pictured his as a new incarnation of Billy Mays pitching pitching WWJD magnetic bracelets- guaranteed to make you strong physically and spiritually (believe it or not, there is such a product on the market and it is in a kiosk at a local mall). Good grief!

  28. I hope all of you guys know I was kidding about Ed Young. He is NOT going to move to India or adopt a bunch of kids – unless there is a big PR splash involved.

    But the comments about adoption are interesting.

    The only thought that I have about that for now is this – I like it that many Christians are seeking to adopt unwanted children from around the world. That is a great thing and we should continue to promote that.

    I am uncomfortable, personally, with the concept that someone wanting to adopt would be asking other people to pay for the adoption.

    It would seem to me that one of the ways a person would know if adoption was God’s will for them is if God provided the resources to take care of the adopted child.

    Some people hold off on having children until they are stable financially and can afford to raise a child. I think that kind of planning and analysis is a good thing and is an exercise in practical wisdom. I would not think it is a good thing for people wanting to have children to ask the church to take up offerings to help them add a room to the house or for college tuition or the other expenses associated with raising a child.

    People who want to adopt should engage in the same type of applied wisdom.

    Also, if the church starts providing large amounts of funds to those seeking to adopt, it will put a lot of money into the adoption process. That is likely to have the unexpected consequence of making adoptions more expensive.

  29. Deb, no the January 9 message you linked to was not this past weekend service. It is a 3-D series right now called Honorable Dimension. Bringing ‘Honor’ back. Hopefully.

    Dee, interested in attendance. Way down since last February when the lifestyle story broke. For example, the Saturday night service would typically be completely full downstairs (approx 3,000) with some nights with people in the balcony. Over the Saturday nights in the Fall, 2010, the attendance dropped so dramatically, the ushers put up these huge black drapes, covering the area up under the balcony, and effectively cutting off another 1000 seats. And still the downstairs does not fill. Now, the drapes serve to push people to the front, making usher duties easier (pass the plate, etc.) but it also has another effect, to make the room appear to be full on the TV shots, when in fact the room is significantly lower in attendance.

    I can’t speak for the other campuses, but the Grapevine campus is way down on attendance on Saturday night and the early service on Sunday morning. The late service on Sunday morning is still fairly attended, but rarely people in the balcony. I would estimate that attendance is down 25-40% since the lifestyle story broke.

  30. “I am uncomfortable, personally, with the concept that someone wanting to adopt would be asking other people to pay for the adoption.”

    This is off topic but what you say here is becoming a huge issue in my area. What we are seeing is that certain people are donating so that those who COULD afford overseas adoption don’t have to pay for it themselves. Those who really want to but do not have the resources are not benefiting.

    Russell Moore of SBTS is one of these guys involved in the fundraising. Years ago, an SBTS donor walked into his office and gave him a check for 10,000 grand to offset costs for his Russian adoption. The only problem is that Moore makes a 6 figure salary off SBC donors now and also makes a real nice income preaching, writing books and speaking gigs. If a guy making a nice 6 figure income needs financial help adopting overseas then we have a bigger problem in Christendom and need a reality check. Especially with those who think they can teach us or future pastors!

  31. Stunned

    No you are not. A few others were confused. That is the best form of satire-one that actually traps people into thinking it might could be true. (“might could be” is a tired and true southern expression). So you have given anonymous a major compliment.

  32. Still goes there

    Thank you for your information, I have posted it with your tag line over at FBC Jax who was looking for this info as well.

    I hear that there are some other churches who lose members that use the black curtain approach as well.

  33. Lydia:

    I admire Dr. Moore’s adoption and I don’t find fault with a friend giving him money to help with the costs.

    It’s the idea of institutionalizing that support that is not a good idea. That is not a good idea, regardless of who promotes it.

    Not only because it has the potential of bypassing a realistic view of one’s own finances, but also because it truly will distort the “market” with respect to adoptions. If you throw money at a matter, the prices will go up.

    If taxes were raised so that anyone who wants to buy car gets a $4,000 payment from the government to assist in the purchase, the price of cars would go up by $4,000.

    So, it only exacerbates the problem.

  34. “I admire Dr. Moore’s adoption and I don’t find fault with a friend giving him money to help with the costs.”

    Oh, I have much bigger problems with Moore than just the process of his adoption. ESS would be a bigger problem.

    What you might not understand is that Moore, making 6 figures PLUS all his other money making activies related to the Gospel, is now out speaking on behalf of people donating to a special fund so more people can adopt. He is their poster boy. How many people do you know who are going to hand you 10,000 to adopt? And what is worse, many who are chosen really do have the means to come up with the money. it is a bit of a club.

    Moore did not need help but he gladly took it. The typical life of our celebrity Christians.

  35. Anonymous, where is most of the cost of foriegn adoption? On the US side or the foreign country side?

  36. Lydia:

    I don’t know about the cost of foreign adoptions. We have had folks in our church adopt from China, Korea, Russia, Central America, Ethiopia, Kenya and Somolia. I will ask and the next time this comes up, I’ll let you know.

    I am aware of Moore’s efforts to create a fund etc. I disagree with that approach.

  37. We adopted from China and it cost us $25k. Adopting from Russia tends to be more expensive: $30k and up. We didn’t take any money. I don’t fault those who do – even those who make significant salaries. Don’t jump on Moore too hard as you might not have a full picture.

    And as an adoptive dad, I think having a foundation where others can apply is a great idea. I’d contribute financially and in PR.

  38. Slight edit to the above: someone gave us $200 in cash contained in a card with thoughtful comments on it. We did take that.

  39. JB
    I really need to explore pirate christian radio. I am hearing good things about it. Thanks for the sermon. I may try to link to it in an update in the body of the post. Further rumor: I happen to know that there is a very credible movement afoot to get the videos back up under the Fair Use deal. It may be happening very, very soon. We will keep everyone updated.

    Your comment is proof that Ed can’t hide from the consequences of his actions. I would respect him more if he stood the courage of his convictions. Instead he tries to hide behind lawyers and financial guys.

    In my book, he is now a” lily-livered” wuss for removing the videos.

  40. JB

    Woohooo!!!!!!!!! I will update our post on this matter and will alert a couple of other bloggers. Thank you for being on the ball or are you the impetus behind this effort? Whatever, TWW is thankful for your alert.