On Christian Cruises, Ergun Caner and Random Acts of Culture

"God has landed on this enemy-occupied world in human form…The perfect surrender and humiliation was undergone by Christ: perfect because He was God, surrender and humiliation because He was man." CS Lewis

 

Jamaican child from Breadbasket.com

 

 

This is an example of American Christianity in all of its mediocrity. Come on a cruise, eat, drink and spend money. Then make yourself feel “spiritual” by pretending that you are on a mission trip and studying the “Bible” as presented by the finest of Bible teachers who will “train you up in the way you should go.”
 

Let’s take a look at one recent cruise listing. This was sent to TWW courtesy of Dr. Butch who does a bag up job of imitating Ergun Caner. Here is the video presenting the cruise from Inspiration Cruises.
 

 

 

From the website we read:

I am so excited to invite you to be a part of the 4th installment of the Cruise with a Cause. PraiseFest Ministries has fully chartered the Carnival Destiny May 30th – June 4th, 2011 as we sail to Montego Bay, Jamaica. You will be joining Pastor John Hagee, Dr. Johnny Hunt, Josh McDowell, Bishop Dale Bronner, Hezekiah Walker, Dr. Ergun Caner and numerous other speakers and artists for this unique experience of a lifetime. The Cruise with a Cause is the perfect combination of a cruise vacation, Christian conference and a mission trip. You will enjoy all of the food and fun that comes with an all inclusive cruise. On board the ship, you can choose to be a part of more than 50 concerts and conferences throughout the week.”

(Well, well, well lookee at who is showing up as a speaker, Ergun Caner.This guy is everywhere!)

 

If you go to the website, you will see a listing of all the other speakers. It goes onto say:

“If you are a pastor, student leader, leader of any kind within your church or an up-and-coming artist…WE NEED YOU!! We need leaders who are willing to share the Gospel in each school assembly. We also need talent for each school whether it be singing, dancing, drama, etc. If you are interested, please see our “How to Get Involved” section. We will also have an amateur talent competition on board with celebrity judges.”

 

Let’s see how they advertise Ergun Caner’s credentials.

"Dr. Caner has come a long way from his roots. Raised the son of an Islamic leader until his conversion to Christ in 1982, he was disowned by his father. Well known in both Christian and secular media, Dr. Caner has been featured on national media networks such as CBS, NBC & ABC. In addition, he is known throughout the world appearing on such Christian shows as Billy Graham’s Decision Today and Moody Open Line, just to name a few. Dr. Caner travels the world defending the faith and persuading audiences of the truth of Jesus Christ. Currently, he is dean of The College at Southwestern (TCS) on the campus of their Baptist Seminary. Today, Dr. Caner’s ministry has reached millions along with his brother Emir; they have authored 11 books translated into six languages. Unveiling Islam won the Gold Medallion Award from the Evangelical publishers Association.”

 

Here are some of my thoughts regarding  this trip. However, I do want to stress that I am not against cruises. It is the pretense that this cruise is some sort of “mission” trip and Bible seminar that is patently ridiculous.
 

-The Egun Caner bio is patently false.

This man is a proven liar and has been removed from his position as Dean of the School of Theology at Liberty University. However, his resume on the cruise seems to indicate that he is Dean of the College of Southwestern when in fact it was his brother, Emir, was the founding dean, but is not even at the college at this time. His supposed speaking engagements around the world “defending the faith” have also been called into question.

It would behoove anyone signing up for this cruise to check the bios on the teachers.

 

-The teachers on this cruise are profiting from this venture in the form of free cruises and other perks.
There is an incentive given to pastors and leaders to bring their fans and congregants along on the trip with them. In fact there is a discount given to groups of 20 or more people. As we saw with Mac Brunson at FBC Jacksonville, the pastors use their pulpit and church to advertise for the trip. In other words, they potentially become the shill for the cruise agency. They are not doing this out of concern for their flock. It is out of concern for, at the minimum, a free trip and possible other financial incentives. You can be sure that books and CDs will be prominently displayed for sale during the trip.

 

-The mainstream teachers/leaders give credibility to the more questionable speakers on the roster.

When well-known Christian leaders, like Johnny Hunt and Josh McDowell, add their names to this speaker list, they are wittingly, or unwittingly, giving credence to the other speakers on this cruise. There are some speakers on the cruise who have questionable theology and questionable ethics. Do some of these leaders compromise their ethics and theological positions for the simple cost of a free cruise? I fear the answer is “yes.”
I anticipate the objection that it is good that the cruisers hear at least a couple of decent pastors. I disagree. Many will interpret the presence of these pastors, like Johnny Hunt, as giving tacit approval to the other speakers

 

 

-The mission aspect of this trip is questionable at best. 3/10/11-Please refer to this link for a response from PraiseFest .

In fact, this trip could be looked at as a way to pretend that one is “serving God” while lounging and eating. Can you imagine how this looks to the poor Jamaicans who are being “ministered to” by the well off cruisers?
So, arriving on their luxury liner, they go off to a school, shuttled in nice buses, and “witness. “ Then they take a few pictures with the natives and, with a tip of the hat, get back to the ship in time for the grand midnight buffet. In the meantime, many of the Jamaicans, who were just “blessed” by the “sacrifice” of time by the vacationers, return to their homes, amidst poverty and violence, often without enough food or electricity. And, for this “service” the Christians can have bragging rights that they took a mission trip. Yeah, right.

But, one might say, the Jamaican government opened up this “opportunity” to “witness.” I have been to Jamaica and have some news for many. Jamaica is an island that has seen a sharp uptick in violence. It is often unsafe to leave the resorts so tourist money rarely gets out to the small businesses that operate outside of the designated resort. Tourism is sharply down which effects the economy to this tiny country. The government is involved in efforts to bring tourists in to spend money. Here is an interesting article on declining tourism due to violence in Jamaica in Daily Finance.com

I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the Jamaican government would let a boatload of friendly atheists and Wiccans visit the schools so long as they spend money on the island.
 

 

Here is the bottom line for me. Pastors need to stop shilling for the cruise agencies. All Christians should go on a real mission trip and be involved in local ministries on a regular basis. People need to read David Platt’s book, Radical, to learn what real sacrifice looks like. And then, go on a cruise and stop pretending that it is more than a vacation.
 

 

After that cynical rant, I want to leave you with a bright moment. When Jesus was born, on a dark night, two millennia ago, the world was going about its day-to-day business, never suspecting something had changed. Imagine the surprise, fear and delight of the shepherds as they listened in on one of the greatest angel choruses of all time, singing praises to a newborn King.
 

Perhaps it was a bit like this. One Saturday, in a Macy’s Department Store in Philadelphia, there was a random act of culture. May you be blessed.( PS-Etiquette demands that you stand).

 

Lydia's Corner:Exodus 15:19-17:7 Matthew 22:1-33 Psalm 27:1-6 Proverbs 6:20-26

Comments

On Christian Cruises, Ergun Caner and Random Acts of Culture — 41 Comments

  1. I’ll give you guys this, you rag on so much of the modern day forms and actions of Christianity I’d almost be proud to introduce you to all my atheist friends! 🙂

  2. Karl

    I think they might like me. I am a good cook.

    Bill
    Am I rotten to the core or is the subject?

  3. Just seems to me that MUCH of American christianity is ingrown, inbred,… much groupthink going on. Much stale air being breathed, so to speak. Like, enormous groups within this subculture are incapable of objectivity due to being saturated with the same brand of thinking and communicating. Breathing the same stale air. I myself was somewhat saturated until a few years ago — I’ve since come up for air (oxygen-rich!) and am relishing the freshness and cleanness and clearness of it, having removed myself from church culture (not from God, mind you). As I am now able to look back at how I had been, I am amazed at how I was willing to buy “the party line” on this or that without objective consideration (“is this true? is this wise? is this even necessary? why are we doing this? why do we think this?”).

    Yes, below the inspirational veneer, this cruise seems riddled with… what is it… dishonesty, compromising of priorities, QUIRKY PRIORITIES…. hmmm, just something unsavory about the whole thing.

  4. Casting Crowns was a part of this? Great, does this mean I can never by a CD from them without feeling guilty? *sigh*

  5. Elastigirl, awesome for you .. it’s not easy to leave something, I’m glad you can now see it from the outside…different huh? Now, just one more thing to leave and you’re home free 🙂

  6. Hi, Karlton.

    I may have had a season of groupthink which I have removed myself from and am much the better for — but that’s not the entire story. It’s not nearly as neat and tidy as that. There are a number of things that are observable as well as experiential which are in a category apart from science and the rational mind. But which are extremely “impactful”, I could say. Powerful experiences which end up changing a human being in ways beyond the physical world. I cannot discount these things — i have experienced enough in my own life that is as true as 2+2=4 and as real as the feel of pine needles on my skin (just a random example), but which simply doesn’t fit any scientific category. And there has been enough trial and error to see a pattern…. perhaps somewhat like the amalgamation of experiments which finally led to the conclusion of how to make “bread” (lots of things to try to cook with, a good deal of information passed down from those who have been working at it, a pattern emerges that if this and that are combined a certain result seems to happen, what if i add some heat, wow — bread. Very basic bread. As time goes by and more and more people are working with bread, bread becomes more complex and more is known and understood about it. This is kind of a goofy analogy and by no means a perfect one — just what came to mind in the midst of my puppy barking up a storm.

    Needs to be fleshed out quite a bit more — but I think it has potential.

    Something unseen which seems to have a personality, an intelligence, which seems to operate in ways which are somehow felt and recognized, which by golly seems to fit the pattern of what human beings have described in a collection of ancient writings ….

  7. Concerning my 1st comment at 9:54, it didn’t come across like I wanted it to. Too much puppy barking and kids mischiefing in my midst to temper my philosophical frustrations. I apologize for sounding judgemental and self-congratulatory (horrible combination).

    The point I was hoping to make was that I’m surprised that apparently so many would embrace this cruise idea (or at least that’s the impression the video clip gives) with actual conviction about its merits. Gives me a very icky feeling. I’m surprised not everyone sees it that way. And the only explanation I can come up with is people not being able to think & evaluate clearly.

  8. Dee,

    Your rant is not one bit cynical. It makes me think of the prophets in ancient & wealthy Israel & how God told them that their solemn convocations & religious “sacrifices” made him sick to his stomach, especially when they forclosed on widow’s houses and kept bread from the hungry.

    Sad truth be told? Your message would sail right over their heads and righteous excrement cuz’ they’re up to their ears in it. Watch though, how fast they’d mobilize for jihad if they found out one of their own Heathers had two mommies.

  9. Elastigirl

    Thank you for your thoughtful comments. You remind me of the Internet Monk. He often talked about those who walk away from the American perversion of the faith and find Christ more clearly on the outskirts. You might look at his book, Mere Churchianity. It was completed just before his death. So much of what he says seems to be echoed in your experience.

  10. Lise

    Listen, Casting CRowns is a good group who sing for profit. They don’t pretend that they are pastors who are trying to help their flock by providing a mission trip. I have no problem with them. Its the pastors who are shilling for the man or is it moola?

  11. Muff
    Whoops, you are the one with the good joke about “sailing over their head.” I need another cup of coffee. I put it in a comment on Elastigirl so I am moving it here.

    For a real like example about mobilization, one only has to look at the SBC which is a living laboratory of schizophrenia. They recently kicked out a church that had a woman as a pastor. However, they refused to deal with some churches who have kept on pastors that have hidden pedophiles, even some on staff. They also refuse to set up a pedophile database, claiming that churches are all “independent” and so it is impossible. And they wonder why people outside (and those like me, formerly inside and now outside) shake their heads and walk away.

    Liked your joke about “sail over their heads.” Not bad for a woman coping with house full of dogs and kids! You’ve still got it, girl!

  12. “Just seems to me that MUCH of American christianity is ingrown, inbred,… much groupthink going on. Much stale air being breathed, so to speak. Like, enormous groups within this subculture are incapable of objectivity due to being saturated with the same brand of thinking and communicating. Breathing the same stale air. I myself was somewhat saturated until a few years ago — I’ve since come up for air (oxygen-rich!) and am relishing the freshness and cleanness and clearness of it, having removed myself from church culture (not from God, mind you). As I am now able to look back at how I had been, I am amazed at how I was willing to buy “the party line” on this or that without objective consideration (“is this true? is this wise? is this even necessary? why are we doing this? why do we think this?”). ”

    You go, girl! Sometimes God has to do it in a very hard way to get us to wake up. Of course, I was part of the “party line” for many years. Then over the period of one year, The Holy Spirit started opening my eyes. I had to go home, close the blinds and delve into the Word to find out what the “exchanged life” really meant. Never again will I not be a Berean. In fact, if one holds the title pastor, I am more likely to check everything they teach. (Because of what is being taught in seminary these days)

    A few years later, Pagan Christianity came out and only affirmed what I had studied and the conclusions I had come to. Lewis articulates it with his blog title: the commandments of men.

    Church history is full of the commandments of men, cult of personality and a bloody mess. We are so far off track, the Christian life has become a “worldview” and a set of rules and roles. Where is abiding in Christ? Where is the exchanged life? The INTERNAL changes that MUST COME OUT when we are Born Again? The worst thing to happen to Christianity was making it legal!

    Let us get back to the real definition of Ekklesia. It is so sad how many people call their building “the house of God”. When WE are to be His house. They worship a building, a man on a stage and programs. Where is Jesus in all this?

    One reason I like listening to Frank Viola is he is constantly bringing us back to Jesus Christ as the center of all things. Instead, we have made it about rules and roles, buildings, programs, cult of personality even believing there are official “offices” in the organizational structure within the buildings. There is even sacred furniture! We are so Roman and do not even know it.

    I am not totally against the special buildings as I still go to one. But I recognize what it “isn’t” and can never be. And my goal is to make Jesus Christ the center of all things no matter where I am.

  13. I wonder why the apostles didn’t think of doing missionary work this way-this way seems much easier, and safer. The apostles often were to lose their lives as did those 19th century missionaries- but Jesus knows and will not be mocked.

  14. One more thing…I have to open my big opinionated mouth again:

    About the cruise…this is an attempt by some to help Caner rehab his reputation. I know how this works…it is the circle of reputation management. So many people were compatriots of Caner so when he was found to be a fraud, they could not allow that to tarnish their reps. So what do you do when there is a vast amount of leaders out there who have had him in to speak lies to their people? Blurbed his books? etc.

    You simply circle the wagons. They think so much of themselves they think that people will automatically disregard the truth about Caner and accept him because they, the big leaders, do. I have seen this more times than I care to remember.

    And it is horrible and a perversion of the Gospel. Why would they help someone be a fraud? It is what elastigirl said above: It is inbred. And it is what Christianity has become about: a Career path.

  15. @Karlton, I follow your comments on this site with interest. Your good-natured remark about introducing Deb and Dee to your atheist friends because they criticize the modern forms and actions of Christianity puzzles me. Please elaborate. I would be safe in assuming that you wouldn’t countenance the more primitive or ancient iterations of Christianity, wouldn’t I?.

  16. Surly,

    It was just a joke. Dee and Deb roundly criticize so many Christian activities from Cruises, to Stay-At-Home daughters, to Televangelists.

    It’s just with all the negative things they have to say about so many Christian activities (and rightly so!) I figured they’d feel right at home with my atheist friends.

    BTW,

    Thank you very much for the compliment of reading my posts. Sometimes, as I’m sure others would also express, you’re never quite sure who is reading what you write and who isn’t. Between writing here daily, answering comments in various newspapers and blogs about Christianity and atheism and writing articles for my own blog, It’s nice to know someone is listening. 🙂

  17. Elastigirl,

    I think you and I are just two of a much larger group of Christians walking away from the politico-business machine that is American organized Christianity, and into the arms of Jesus. 🙂

    Karl,

    My atheist friends like me a lot, and I am only a mediocre cook. Sure, I have my signature dishes, but I turned fish to mush the other day- a rookie mistake. *sigh*

  18. I didn’t know there was a college at Southwestern — I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, since Southern started Boyce College, it’s not surprising the other SB seminaries would do likewise.

    But when did Ergun Caner become dean at the College of Southwestern? I haven’t followed the SB blogs lately — has anyone blogged on that topic? Last I heard, after he was removed as dean at Liberty Seminary, he was still on faculty at Liberty but not teaching any classes.

  19. Nevermind — I didn’t read carefully — you noted that it was Emir who used to be dean there.

  20. With all due respect, it seems to me that you two have a whole lot of spare time on your hands. Perhaps the time could be better spent. Just saying.

  21. I would also add that anyone who sits on the computer reading blogs like this one has alot of spare time as well. This is my first visit to this blog, and no, I am not a liberal, money hungry “christian.” I’m a follower of Christ who has little time to follow this unhelpful, unfruitful blog.

  22. Wow, Another authoritarian who knows how folks should spend their time! It is a sin to discuss and warn about spiritual abuse. How clever they are. If they can make you feel guilty and sinful by doing so they can get by with murder!

  23. “I would also add that anyone who sits on the computer reading blogs like this one has alot of spare time as well. This is my first visit to this blog, and no, I am not a liberal, money hungry “christian.” I’m a follower of Christ who has little time to follow this unhelpful, unfruitful blog.”

    Yet you are on a computer reading a blog. I am sure you never watch tv or sports.

  24. All I’m saying is…There is a difference between defending what is true, correcting a brother or sister in Christ, and doing what you’re doing on here. I’m well aware of the misuses of the Scripture, the Church, and all the hypocrytical stuff that goes on. But I’m going to seek to be maintain a clear conscience before God and men, and tell men and women how Jesus has radically changed me and saved me. I will also try to be an encouragement, not sowing dissention in the church. I’m sorry if my first posts were insensitive. It’s not my place to tell you how to spend your time. I just get frustrated when I see my sisters pointing out the bad in seemingly every minister of the gospel. Let us be discerning in our warnings and liberal with encouragement. We’ve got enough enemies without turning on each other. God bless!

  25. I would add that the real issue here is submission to authority. It’s a Biblical principle (Romans 13:1-2). Yes, we must be careful that we’re not swayed by every wind of doctrine, but let us be careful not to “throw the baby out with the bathwater” either. We’re all being made into the likeness of Jesus Christ (Rom. 8:29). None of us have arrived yet. Let’s stand together as one body in these final days. And lastly… Yes, people abuse authority, but we are called to submit to authority. We are to obey God rather than men, but let’s show a little respect.

  26. Gunter

    I am impressed that you have the spiritual gift of being able to count the “fruit” of others’ efforts. In heaven, there will be a full accounting and I am content to put this in the hands of the Almighty or perhaps He intends to delegate this function to Gunter?

    Actually, I have no doubt that we trampled on one of your “things” whatever it may be-SGM, Caner, one of the speakers on the cruises, or even one of the Christian cruise purveyors…whatever.

    If you were truly trying to “correct” this “christian” you would outline the problems that you have with what I write.Jesus and the Apostles specifically pointed out issues. If you have a problem with us, let us know. If we have misrepresented anything, we are willing to be corrected. Or are you a weenie who is afraid to defend his point of view?

    Finally, unlike you, there are some here who have been deeply wounded by the church and find this a place where they can be heard. I am sorry that it does not meet your standards whatever they might be.

  27. Gunter

    Now you are hinting at your issue. Authority. Could you please let me know who you think my authority is? How do you know that I don’t respect authority? Have I dissed someone who YOU consider an authority? Is it some guy who I have no contact with?

    How do you know we are in the final days? The disciples thought they were in the final days. Also, lets imagine for a minute that we are in the final days. If I am actively serving the Lord in my life now, why would I change what I am doing? Shouldn’t every day be spent in the service of God so that when he returns, as a thief in the night, He will see that we are working diligently for His kingdom. Why would I need to “ramp it up” if I take each day seriously?

    Now, if we are in the final days, there is a also a warning about false teachers that will be running around messing with the church. Take these verses from 2 Timothy 4 “For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.”

    Finally, I will NOT submit to any person who abuses the other Christians and I will do my darndest to get the word out so that my sisters and brothers will not be hurt by them and waste their hard earned money and time on them. I remember one pastor who was being confronted about a grievous sin. He looked at a few sincere people who were trying to correct him and said “What about my authority?” Another man said, “until you wash the feet of the people you serve, you can forget about your authority.”

  28. Gunter — had a thought about your comment “that the real issue here is submission to authority. It’s a Biblical principle (Romans 13:1-2).”

    Yes, it’s clear that authority structures exist in many realms (even the animal kingdom) which keep groups of human beings organized so they can exist and hopefully flourish.

    Yet, where religion is concerned, seems it’s often “authority gone wild!!”

    I propose that much of American Christianity has gone haywire with manufactured, contrived authority structures, tying up unsuspecting folks who simply want to live for God into all sorts of knots — tangled up in so many cords of ridiculous “spiritual” bureacracy — whose favorite penalty is the good ol’ fashioned guilt trip.

    “Who the Son sets free is free indeed” surely has a number of nuances if not interpretations — yet it is very clear to me that to be “free indeed” because Jesus Christ has made it so and declared it so does NOT obligate a person to these complex & unnecessary power structures.

    (which largely exist, I suspect, to create jobs)

  29. Elastigirl

    Amen. The Garden of Eden outlines man’s essential sin problem-wanting to be like God. The sins inherent in authoritarianism is just a replay of the Fall-over and over. We humans do not learn very well.

  30. ” But I’m going to seek to be maintain a clear conscience before God and men, and tell men and women how Jesus has radically changed me and saved me. I will also try to be an encouragement, not sowing dissention in the church.”

    Christ WILL present a Pure (not perfect but PURE) Bride to Himself. You call it sowing dissention. I call it warning folks to run away from evil so one is not enabling and even financially supporting evil. We will answer for that.

  31. Gunter, Romans 13 is about the governing authorites. Not about the body of Christ. Just look at when Romans was written and WHO the governing authorities were. Then go and read Peter before the governing authorities saying he must obey God not man.

    Hebrews 13:17 is an errant translation from those laboring under a state church with a “divine” king as leader of the church. A better translation of the Greek (checking how the Greek is used in other passages) is we should listen and be persuaded by our leaders who go before us.

    The Body of Christ is a Holy Priesthood. There are NO laity. All are ministers with different spiritual gifts and functions. NO ONE Is more important than the other.

    It always astonishes me that so many want to ignore context or look at translations because they want to be in authority over another adult human in the Body instead of encouraging them to be led by the Holy Spirit. Lots of folks wanting to be the Holy Spirit for believers. Even long time believers who should be feasting on meat.

  32. I too have been hurt by the church, but I didn’t turn my back on it. Is there any pastor or leader that would pass the scrutinity of this blog? Please share.

  33. Gunter

    Here are a few:the pastors in my current church, pastors in a number of my past churches except for two, pastors of many of my friends. But, they aren’t the big name pastors who would be asked to headline a cruise lineup. So, do you mean famous pastors or real pastors?

    What in the world makes you think I have turned my back on the church? I have a great church, am involved in Bible study, etc.

    The church I have turned my back on is the big name, big money, hyper-authoritarian, excessive American church. I have turned my back on churches that hide pedophiles and ignore pastors sexual sins. I have turned my back on the churches who hype the famous people who “bless” the church with their presence. I have turned my back on churches where pastors are untouchable and have achieved rock star status. These pastors are around for a quick shake of the hand and an intense shakedown of your money to build their edifices that honor them, not God. These churches and pastors pervert the Gospel.

    Instead I have found the churches who care for the poor, who stress love for their people and have pastors who actually pastor instead of running around to conferences to hype their books. I have found a church where pastors go out to lunch with folks after church.

    I have given up “churchianity” a term coined by Michael Spencer and have joined the church of our Lord.

  34. “I too have been hurt by the church, but I didn’t turn my back on it. Is there any pastor or leader that would pass the scrutinity of this blog? Please share.”

    Gunter, why use hyperbole when it is not warranted? To change the subject and try to force folks to defend their words. That is not a dialogue. I can explain. I feel no need to defend anything.

    I know a few “pastors” with calloused knees who drive beat up cars and are totally sold out to Christ and His Body. A few of them are bivocational and do not depend on others to support them financially. I have found them to be the most serious and dedicated to the growth in holiness of those in the Body so they can go and minister to others as they grow in holiness and maturity in their faith.

    I think it helps if people define what they mean by “church”. Are they speaking of the institution, building, programs, paid professional staff? Or are they talking about the organic expression of faith among believers?

  35. Gunter, you may not understand this but I never turned my back on the “church”. I simply found out about the REAL true ekklesia. Most of what we see around us is not it.

  36. Pingback: “It’s hard to find God in a megachurch” and other stories « Half a bridge