Many blessings!

We encourage debate on an honest level and obviously some will disagree with us on this point. There is an individual on another post trying to convince me that the prosperity gospel is OK.We are adamantly opposed to that position as well but are pleased that he would be willing to debate the subject with us.

We are most concerned with the treatment of those who would struggle to remain celibate. There seems to be a stigma attached those who have struggled with the gay lifestyle. One man was told that if he even thought about homosexual activity, he was in sin and he was kicked out of his church (Sovereign Grace nonsense-per usual). Of course, said pastor probably has difficulty with his own thought life. So, if a guy struggles with an occasional thought of illicit heterosexual sin, he would be told to confess and it is normal.I say that SGM pastor is a hypocrite.

We seem to be OK with those who have struggled with drug addiction, alcoholism, pornography, etc. Some churches even seem to want to reach out to pedophiles and those who have an obsession with child pornography. But, mention homosexuality and folks get a little queasy. I was told by one person that if the person really, really wanted to be healed of his homosexual orientation, it would occur. Therefore, the struggling, celibate homosexual really doesn’t want to be healed. What a burden we place on those who want to follow Jesus! Paul had his thorn and he was not healed of it either.

We condemn those who would burden folks who struggle mightily to overcome their issues. Where is the compassion?
As for Ken, he needs to know that his views are allowed and welcome on this blog even if we disagree. We also need to hear where Ken is coming from. So many times there is an “us against them” mentality.We shut down folks instead of offering them friendship. I want him to know that he is loved and that his ideas matter even if we disagree.

Does this make any better sense to you?

The most that I do agree with this whole thing is that the church has failed – not surprising, since we are not in heaven yet (can’t wait!) – and I do hurt for those who are dealing with this struggle personally and wish I knew how to better lead my church in understanding and love… I think the main point is that a lot of churches “say” that homosexuality is a sin like any other sin, but then do not treat it in that context…. And on the opposite side, those who are struggling with homosexuality or any sing for that matter – I know for myself – would not like to hear what they are doing is a sin… but does that make it ok? I don’t know about you, but I find it all confusing… my head hurts

Sorry if I was rambling… just looking for answers/thoughts…

I hope people learn that just claiming to be a “pastor” or “minister” or whatever doesn’t in any way make that person one. The proof is in their deeds, not their titles.

Ha – great stuff, glad I’m not the only one!

I agree – I think “turning people over to Satan” is held (particularly in SGM circles) as the ultimate threat. Thing is of course – if we are consistent with the New Testament, Paul seems to indicate that turning someone over to Satan occurs “for the destruction of their flesh” (i.e. – a premature physical death) for the salvation of their souls. Alas – I’m still alive and kicking! So either Satan didn’t want me. Or …. some other reason!

Rather disturbingly the phrase that has been used consistently by the SGM pastor in my situation is the word; “Disfellowship”. I’ve googled and researched the term very soundly since I first heard it used and one of the few places I can find it used is by the Jehovah’s Witnesses. So obviously one of my questions to this individual will be – why that phrase?

Thanks Dee – that makes a lot of sense to me.

Something occured to me last night – I was thinking about how pastors are sometimes likened to “shepherds”. I know that phrase attracted some negative press in the Shepherding Movement (Mumford, Simpson, Basham et al) but it happens. Ironically – shepherds as I understand it fiercly protect their flock from mauraders – wolves, lions etc. Shepherds pick up their lambs when they are damaged and hurt. I don’t know of any shepherds that stab their sheep when they’re wounded.

When I was only out of high school I got involved in a very conservative church and because I was an artist (and still am!) I was immediately on the “homo watch” list, though I was oblivious to it at first. But after a few years I began really questioning things, and, the ulitmate sin, quit tithing. So the “pastor”, not surprisingly, immediately got the revelation from God that I was one of “them”. By that time I knew that they saw homoness as the ne plus ultra of sins, and routinely started rumor campaigns accusing anyone who got out of line of just that, including one woman who dared to wear pants -proof enough!

The painful part, though, was how many people who I had thought were friends were so quick to believe such nonsense against me.

I should also mention that the “pastor” was such a dope he clearly thought “turning someone over to Satan” was some kind of way scary Jesus voodoo, which only the high priesthood of pastors could perform, rather than simply excommunication, as Paul makes clear.

There is always a remnant even when the church is messed up. Frankly, I believe that SGM is a problem laden entity that treats its people as stupid and its pastors like mini-gods.

Here is one thing you might like to ask the so-called pastor of your former church. Since “thoughts” are as bad as actually committing a sin, would he like to have his minute be minute thoughts written down and broadcast to the church??

Here is what I think. He has serious problems and would never, ever tell them to anyone at SGM.He would be de-gifted by men who would never, ever tell their thoughts and struggles to another pastor in SGM. He is a blind fool and doesn’t have the faintest understanding of what the Gospel actually means beyond the fact that you and everyone else are sinners and he is a demigod that somehow is unable to really, truly sin like the rest of the poor slugs out there.

Don’t worry Dan. A former pastor(who really gets it) once defined our struggle with sin in our life as this. We are on track as long as we struggle on. When we fall, we stand up, brush ourselves off and go on. As long as we are willing to keep getting up, we are following HIm. Sometimes we never fully overcome certain sins in this life. It is the “want to” that counts.

Your UK friend thought he’d drop back and thank you for the prayers and really kind words – it really means a lot. I’d agree with Ken – I don’t like the labels; “Heterosexual” or “homosexual” either – I’m a person and my name’s Dan. Lol!

Interesting though; “What is homosexuality? How is it of itself a sin?”. An SGM friend of mine (I have a few – still!) got involved in a discussion on my blog and made the statement that it’s not just homosexual activity that is a sin but the thoughts are too. Guess that totally scuppers me one way or another! But this is the thought mentality that is in SGM – this family of churches. And it really worries me that although I made it out (well – was booted out) there are still young guys and girls in SGM too scared to speak out or share.

Just an update – yesterday I exchanged emails for the first time with the SGM pastor who “disfellowshipped me” from the church. I am trying hard to bring some resolution to this for my family’s sake as they are still in SGM. For some time there had been some confusion in my mind as to whether I actually imagined being disfellowshipped … Mainly because the impression was given to my parents by the church that I exaggerated (like you can exaggerate being ‘handed over to Satan’).

So I am trying to meet with this senior pastor and discuss and clarify what happened, why he did what he did with biblical justification and where I stand now.

Interestingly enough he made reference in his email “your disfellowshipment from” the church – so clearly in his mind – there is no confusion.

Thanks so much for your on-going prayers and support – you guys are just … great! And it really makes me hopeful that change can come in the church!