So, you base truth and spirituality on numbers? So does Rick Warren.

How do you square that with this:

66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.

Read the whole passage of John 6. When there is the hard teaching, many will leave. And by saying this, I am not saying that DJK preached the hard stuff. He was mostly political.

Thank you for your comments. Obviously, from our post, you can see our concerns.

I am totally opposed to the “oath” of loyalty. This is showing up in hyper-authoritarian churches all over the US. Jesus never demanded such an oath from his disciples, even when he knew He would be betrayed by Judas. He knew Peter would deny HIm. Jesus didn’t need an oath and Peter didn’t need to have signed an oath. He felt the depths of his guilt mightily.

Can you imagine on the night in which Jesus was betrayed, if Jesus had waved a sheet and said, “Hey Judas, you signed it. You are hereby removed from your position?” Instead, Jesus humbly told Judas to do what he must and bore His pain with quiet dignity. Quiet dignity-hmmmm how many of the Calvinistas reflect such a strength????

Such an oath is a manmade attempt to control the flock. It won’t work. It causes turmoil. And, unfortunately, it shows a lack of inner strength on the part of TT. How sad.

Tulllian has never said he has all the answers and he has not said the congregation should follow along or they are rebellious. It’s not a dictatorship and he has not emphasized his authority. He never stated he had the authority. In fact he often says that he plays a small part in this whole ministry. In fact I think he’s very humble. He admits when he’s been arrogant in the moment. He asks for forgiveness. We forgive him. We don’t make him our Jesus. In fact he said today that he’s trying to leave a legacy for Christ not him. In fact he says that he hopes people forget about him when he dies. If that’s not biting a piece off the old humble pie then I don’t know what is. He stated that he didn’t want to be a TV preacher because he’s seen the criticism Dr. Kennedy and his grandad got. He’s a radio, local preacher and author. I respectfully say I don’t look forward to your book because to me it’s ancient history. That’s one downside to a former megachurch is that no matter what you do you always are going to be talked and written about on a national level.

TWW tries to present the stories in a fair fashion. When we begin our book, we plan to look carefully at church conflict from an MBA case study method. Part of that method is evaluating what went right as well as what went wrong.

Of course the church membership picked TT. But, the interview process often does not reveal the true intent of the pastoral candidate. The same is true for the congregation. We believe that it is imperative to take a careful approach to major changes in the church. A hot to trot, new pastor may have great ideas but does not understand congregational dynamics.

One question that we were taught is to first ask the question, “Why is this company (church) doing well? What are the things it is doing right?” Once that analysis is well underway, then one begins to assess what is going wrong. If the process has been followed, the pastor will have more buy in from his people since he has first focused on the positive and what is right.

We wonder if seminaries today are producing arrogant pastors who think they are the ones that have all the answers and the congregation need to follow along or they are “rebellious.” This is a partnership not a dictatorship yet so many pastors emphasize their “authority.” The moment the pastor must state he has the authority, he has already lost the battle. True authority is earned and recognized by those who follow.

I pray for your church as well as the new one spawned from it. It reminds me of the growing Anglican movement in America. The Anglican church was founded on false pretenses in order to let Henry VIII to marry Ann Boleyn. But look at the fruit of that church. So from bad comes great good.

Finally, we have great faith that TT can cope with a little bit of criticism from two middle aged women bloggers.If he can’t, then the church has real problems.

Once again, thank you for your comments. TT has a great friend.

Once again, I thank you for your interest in what we have written. TT is blessed to have a great and loyal friend.

-Could you please clarify your first sentence? I am not sure I know what you mean.

-I think you may not understand the life that I have lived. I worked two years on the Navajo Reservation. I was a public health nurse for years-often working with alcoholics and even one or two prostitutes in my time. I think these folks would tell you that I am a most caring individual. I have also spent close to 20 years volunteering with children and adults in low income settings. I am willing to put my caring for the “least of these” up for observation and comment. However, I tell you this to say that you need to be cognizant that, although we may disagree, that does not mean I haven’t been out there in the trenches.

-I am not sure how thoroughly you have read this blog. We have done stories on Haggard, Baker and others and their issues. Please look under categories for those articles.

-How do you know that we haven’t looked in the mirror and confessed our sins?

-We wrote a series on your friend, TT and we have moved on. If you have noticed, he has not been the topic of conversation for quite awhile. You are the one who just brought it up again and i am merely responding. This blog is taking a hard look at church conflicts and we are considering writing a book on the subject. CRPC is a church that has seen conflict and there is much that can be learned from it.

-As for Pharisaical hypocrites who sit on the sideline…are you referring to me? I am most definitely not on the sidelines and I am intimately involved in my church and Christian ministry. As for Pharisaical…well, the Reformed community has more than their share of these. Please read out posts on Reformed ministries who dictate, to excruciating detail, many secondary and tertiary issues.

-Did you read my comment to you from before? It is really, really important to understand those who you are criticizing and to acknowledge what they have said. Note how i am responding to you point by point.

That is one of the problems in church conflict. The pastor has one view and often does not listen carefully to what is being said by others. Disagreement is looked as a terrible thing instead of an opportunity to grow and learn.

-We have not “kept up bringing up TT’s sin”. As far as I know, TT has not acknowledged his fault in this matter but that does not mean that we haven’t forgiven him and moved on. Is it your opinion that a pastor can sin and that it shouldn’t be written about or acknowledged? Even the Scriptures outline the embarrassing sins of many-Peter, James and John, etc. We can all grow and learn from others sins and mistakes. A real Christian can man up and admit he screwed up. I think TT is capable of handling criticism from an obscure blogger.

We are all recipients of God’s grace. All of us have fallen short of the glory of God. However, that does not mean that we can’t discuss the issues, pains and struggles in the fellowship of believers.

Once again, thank you for your thoughts.