A commenter who goes by the moniker “info” graced us with her presence at TWW this morning. Here’s what she wrote on Dee’s Hank Hanegraaff post:
Ladies –
Still waiting for that dedication you promised over at Survivors.
Who Cares, you are right. Dee doesn’t answer any of your questions. Signed statements from CRI employees carry less weight than anonymous critics of SGM. HH’s lack of education carries less weight than SG pastoral training or Ken Ham’s schooling. HH’s lavish life style and nepotism gets less of a look than Mahaney’s charitable giving. A website by the family of the CRI founder has less weight than the sites that criticize SG.
And on and on.
Ladies, keep your yellow background. It symbolizes and warns of the yellow, biased views you dish out. I’m confident that you will remaining intentionally and pleasantly confused.
XOXOXO
Dee responded as follows:
Info
We like “ladies” far better than “witches.” Thank you for your thoughtful comments and concerns. May God bless your day.
Why is info commenting here at TWW, why did Dee respond as she did, and why is this post dedicated to info?
Here’s some background information. Kris over at SGM Survivors posted a portion of our article “The Mahaney Money Machine” on her blog with the clever title “Show Me The Money”. You can find it at this link: http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/?paged=2
It was a much read post, which garnered 328 comments.
Here’s the BOTTOM LINE (pun intended) of what we discovered: both C.J. Mahaney and Sovereign Grace Ministries have given over $100,000 to Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. If you read our post, then you know that Mahaney began contributing to SBTS in 2002 (as far as we can determine) and achieved the $100,000 level in 2007. PDI made a contribution to SBTS in 2002 before morphing into Sovereign Grace Ministries that same year. SGM contributed to SBTS for the first time in 2003 and by 2007, this ministry had given at least $100,000 to Southern Seminary, where Al Mohler sits at the helm.
The question many SGM Survivors had was simply this – WHY?
“Why is SGM funneling money from its ministry into another denomination,” they pondered. Sovereign Grace Ministries doesn’t send its future pastors to SBTS. It’s a conundrum to be sure…
That is the backdrop for what follows. You see, SGM loyalists like info are not happy with us for uncovering and then publicizing this information.
Here’s info referring to Dee and me in Comment #200 under the “Show Me The Money” post at SGM Survivors.
A, thanks for showing in pictures how I feel about this site along with SGM Rejects and Wartberg Witches…
If you’d like to read info’s entire comment, go to this link: http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/?p=1455&cp=4#comments
I replied to info in Comment #217, as follows:
“Wartberg Witches”, eh?
Info. is just another SGM sycophant who resorts to name calling when he refuses to discuss the issues… Well, it’s not working…
Then Dee chimed in with Comment #218, as follows:
Wartburg witches hmmmmmm? Funny thing about all of this… I grew up in Salem, Massachusetts (I promise I am telling the truth-Deb will confirm). I can assure, I am not. Neither were the supposed “witches” that were executed in Salem. 18 were hung, one was pressed. And it was the church leaders who condemned these poor women. It seems like history is doomed to repeat itself.
Blessings in the midst of this anyway.
The reason info is looking for a post dedicated to her is because of what I wrote in Comment #222 over at SGM Survivors. See below.
Guess what info…
You have inspired an upcoming blog post over at The Wartburg Watch, and it will be dedicated to YOU!!!
BTW, Martin Luther would be upset that you don’t know how to spell the name of the place where he translated the New Testament into his native language. Actually, we know you misspelled it on purpose to poke fun at us, but that’s O.K. “For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction”, and that’s what is about to take place over at TWW. Look for our response sometime this week…
Here’s a “sneak peak” of what we will be discussing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_witch_trials
SOCIAL CONTEXT (Salem Witch Trials)
“The patriarchal beliefs that Puritans held in the community added further stresses. Women, they believed, should be totally subservient to men. By nature, a woman was more likely to enlist in the Devil’s service than was a man, and women were considered lustful by nature. In addition, the small-town atmosphere made secrets difficult to keep and people’s opinions about their neighbors were generally accepted as fact. In an age where the philosophy “children should be seen and not heard” was taken at face value, children were at the bottom of the social ladder. Toys and games were seen as idle and playing was discouraged. Girls had additional restrictions placed upon them and were trained from a young age to spin yarn, cook, sew, weave, serve their husbands and bear their children, while boys were able to go hunting, fishing, exploring in the forest, and often became apprentices to carpenters and smiths.
In accordance with Puritan beliefs, the majority of accused ‘witches’ were unmarried or recently widowed land-owning women; according to the law if no legal heir existed upon the owner’s death, title to the land would revert to the previous owner, or (if no previous owner could be determined) to the colony.[citation needed] This made witch-hunting a possible method of acquiring a profitable piece of property.”
What makes this exchange so “providential” is that Dee really did grow up in Salem, Massachusetts and has extensive knowledge about the Salem Witch Trials. Of course, you know that there weren’t any “witches” in Salem, don’t you? Back then, as you have witnessed here, if someone was displeased with you, they resorted to name-calling. Not much has changed, has it?
Now that you have the background information on our exchange with info over at SGM Survivors, imagine my surprise at Lydia’s remark made just two days ago (http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/24/the-danger-of-personality-cults-among-the-new-calvinists/#comments)
Lydia wrote:
“BTW: Some of the well known profs at SBTS told a reporter that a friend of mine (someone who is a dedicated Christian who did a presentation on the problems with patriarchy) was a new age witch. I kid you not. They actually said that to a reporter!”
The Puritans have made a BIG comeback among some in the Calvinista crowd, and we plan to discuss this trend next week. Dee will enlighten us with her extensive knowledge of the Salem Witch Trials. I can hardly wait!
Furthermore, I will explain why some SBTS professors resorted to calling one of Lydia’s friends a “new age witch”. I’m really looking forward to sharing exactly what happened. I became apprised of this unfortunate situation well over a year ago, and now I finally get to write about it. Stay tuned…
You know the saying…
Those who don’t learn from history are destined to repeat it.
Despite your harsh comments info, thanks for refraining from calling us “witches” here at TWW. “Ladies” is a very much appreciated!
So Deb
Taking on the Puritans, eh? Bet it will get the same rise out of some of the same crowd who didn’t like us following the money. You like to live dangerously.
Funny thing about the money, it is interesting who is contributing to Mohler’s Roll Call. One of my former churches and a pastor or two are doing the same thing. They all also hang with the Mahaney crowd at T4G and the usual gatherings.
Perhaps, after I get to expound on the lovely happenings in Salem brought to us by the often quoted Puritans, we can also illuminate where money is flowing in the SBC as well. Is this all just a strange coincidence of charitable giving? Or, is there more???
Yes, I would encourage SBCers to follow the money trail, too. Just click on the links in the “Mahaney Money Machine” article to see whether your pastor and/or church is giving to the extremely “reformed” Southern Seminary.
Money talks…
Ouch! You called me “he”. No fair! Don’t make me call you “witches” on your own blog!
Don’t forget to warn your bloggers about Hank’s money trail. Let’s play fair, sisters!
info,
I will make the necessary changes regarding gender. You sounded more like a “he” than a “she” to me…
Info, I do not get it. Are you bragging about CJ being as sinful as HH, in your view?
Dee and Deb, As to the Puritans…I, for one, have had enough of it. A dear friend of mine, who graduated from SBTS recently, did a thesis on the Puritans. Before the paper, it was Puritans, this and Puritans, that. After the paper, his comment to me was this: There is a reason they died out.
No kidding.
BTW: Did either of you read this:
http://www.amazon.com/American-Jezebel-Uncommon-Hutchinson-Puritans/dp/0060562331
Lydia,
Loved your friend’s comment about the Puritans: “There is a reason they died out”.
This will ALWAYS be the case.
Lydia,
I haven’t read it, but I did go to Amazon and read some of the reviews.
“Despite your harsh comments info, thanks for refraining from calling us ‘witches’ here at TWW. ‘Ladies’ is a very much appreciated!”
I thought the term was “wenches.” As in “o glorious wenches.”
Oh yeah,”wenches”, a vague memory from the distant past. What’s with all the name-calling, and what does this indicate about our critics?
If rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft then perhaps all of us were witches(or warlocks) at one time.
But great is so great is the kindness of the Lord that leads to repentence!!
Here’s the problem Casey. Dee and I have totally surrendered our lives to Jesus Christ who is our Savior and Lord. We are TOTALLY sold out to Him, and that’s the reason we are so passionate about TWW and proclaiming God’s truth in this forum.
Neither of us is living in rebellion, so we are not guilty of the “sin of witchcraft”. The Holy Spirit lives inside of Dee and me, and He guides and directs us.
Info’s ad hominem definitely deserved its own blog post.
I said that in all humbleness of heart and believe all “us” were in that propensity to do so…merely theological perspective not an inference at all. That is why I said “us”
Grim but nonetheleast profound…if you think about it.
Casey
There were no witches tried and executed in Salem. They were the victims of superstititous Puritans and others groups. Many of the so-called witches who were in jail were there because of a land grab by the locals. We will talk about this in depth next week.
The sins of the Puritans are found in today’s church. For example, people like Ken Ham accuses anyone who does not believe in the extraordinarily poor science of the YE crowd of being in danger of “denying the doctrine of the atonement” which is code language for potential heresy.
As for the land grab, look at pastors today who live excessive lifestyles and cheat their congregations out of their time in order to write books, travel to conferences, and hang with their cohorts who plug each other on the circuit.
I agree with you. We are all guilty of sin but it isn’t the sin of witchcraft. For many in the Calvinista crowd, it is the sin of superstition and greed, just like the Puritans. Thanks for weighing in.