Comments on: THE SCREAM OF THE DAMNED AND THE LAST STRAW… http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/12/the-scream-of-the-damned-and-the-last-straw/ Dissecting Christian trends. Posting Monday,Wednesday, Thursday and Friday Mon, 21 May 2012 16:16:50 -0400 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Lydia http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/12/the-scream-of-the-damned-and-the-last-straw/#comment-573 Lydia Tue, 16 Feb 2010 15:15:37 +0000 http://thewartburgwatch.com/?p=604#comment-573 At one former mega, they brought in a staff minister to visit old people and do the funerals of members who died... UNLESS it was someone famous then the senior pastor got to to it because the media was covering it. Even if the deceased did not go there which happens a lot because famous people need a large church so many can attend. Of course the new guy did not know most of those for whom he was officiating. Some folks got very incensed over this but like good little sheeple, they went along. At one former mega, they brought in a staff minister to visit old people and do the funerals of members who died… UNLESS it was someone famous then the senior pastor got to to it because the media was covering it. Even if the deceased did not go there which happens a lot because famous people need a large church so many can attend.

Of course the new guy did not know most of those for whom he was officiating. Some folks got very incensed over this but like good little sheeple, they went along.

]]> By: dee http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/12/the-scream-of-the-damned-and-the-last-straw/#comment-520 dee Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:59:34 +0000 http://thewartburgwatch.com/?p=604#comment-520 Lydia I know a former pastor who thinks that pastors should not be compensated ala "Pagan Christianity." In a former church there were 17 paid pastors and they were all too busy to visit the congregation, do Good Friday services, etc. Lydia

I know a former pastor who thinks that pastors should not be compensated ala “Pagan Christianity.” In a former church there were 17 paid pastors and they were all too busy to visit the congregation, do Good Friday services, etc.

]]> By: Lydia http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/12/the-scream-of-the-damned-and-the-last-straw/#comment-471 Lydia Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:35:55 +0000 http://thewartburgwatch.com/?p=604#comment-471 Are we sure the Word teaches that "pastors" are to be compensated? Who in the Body is paid "single honor"? Are we sure the Word teaches that “pastors” are to be compensated? Who in the Body is paid “single honor”?

]]> By: Deb http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/12/the-scream-of-the-damned-and-the-last-straw/#comment-468 Deb Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:09:19 +0000 http://thewartburgwatch.com/?p=604#comment-468 Lydia, Isn't it incredible that the Apostle Paul is such a role model for some of these mega pastors; yet he wasn't dependent on his followers to fund his lifestyle -- he was a tent maker. I'm not saying that pastors shouldn't be compensated fairly, but is $180,000 a year fair to the congregation? No wonder churches, like those in the SBC, aren't able to send more money to the IMB... Lydia,

Isn’t it incredible that the Apostle Paul is such a role model for some of these mega pastors; yet he wasn’t dependent on his followers to fund his lifestyle — he was a tent maker. I’m not saying that pastors shouldn’t be compensated fairly, but is $180,000 a year fair to the congregation? No wonder churches, like those in the SBC, aren’t able to send more money to the IMB…

]]> By: Lydia http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/12/the-scream-of-the-damned-and-the-last-straw/#comment-467 Lydia Sun, 14 Feb 2010 16:07:38 +0000 http://thewartburgwatch.com/?p=604#comment-467 I was just thinking of a high level staffer I know real well who goes to a "conference" on missions in Poland every year all expenses paid by the mega. Nevermind his job with the mega has nothing to do with missions. He loves Germany and gets to take Holiday time around his missions coference every year. That might not be so bad but he also makes 180,00 per year as a staff minister at this mega. He can afford a Holiday on his own dime. I was just thinking of a high level staffer I know real well who goes to a “conference” on missions in Poland every year all expenses paid by the mega. Nevermind his job with the mega has nothing to do with missions. He loves Germany and gets to take Holiday time around his missions coference every year. That might not be so bad but he also makes 180,00 per year as a staff minister at this mega. He can afford a Holiday on his own dime.

]]> By: Lydia http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/12/the-scream-of-the-damned-and-the-last-straw/#comment-466 Lydia Sun, 14 Feb 2010 16:04:25 +0000 http://thewartburgwatch.com/?p=604#comment-466 "Deb, I know that at least one church I previously attended DID have the pastor’s conference fees and expenses as a part of the church’s annual budget. While that likely is not the case at all churches, it is at some." Oh, I agree with this totally. Many mega churches have hundreds of thousands designated in the budget for conferences for staffers at almost all levels. The pew sitters have no clue how much is spent if they are elder led and never see a real budget. Beinga low level staffer in a mega, conferences are one of the perks of the job...all expenses paid. For the high level staffers, they are usually incorporated as holidays and of course, they choose which ones they want to attend usually the ones in Europe. The conference/seminar business is big business in Christendom. Even smaller churches designate money for a pastors conference. In the SBC, the church pays for the pastor to attend the annual convention in most cases. even the small churches. “Deb, I know that at least one church I previously attended DID have the pastor’s conference fees and expenses as a part of the church’s annual budget. While that likely is not the case at all churches, it is at some.”

Oh, I agree with this totally. Many mega churches have hundreds of thousands designated in the budget for conferences for staffers at almost all levels. The pew sitters have no clue how much is spent if they are elder led and never see a real budget.

Beinga low level staffer in a mega, conferences are one of the perks of the job…all expenses paid. For the high level staffers, they are usually incorporated as holidays and of course, they choose which ones they want to attend usually the ones in Europe.

The conference/seminar business is big business in Christendom. Even smaller churches designate money for a pastors conference. In the SBC, the church pays for the pastor to attend the annual convention in most cases. even the small churches.

]]> By: Lydia http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/12/the-scream-of-the-damned-and-the-last-straw/#comment-458 Lydia Sun, 14 Feb 2010 01:28:35 +0000 http://thewartburgwatch.com/?p=604#comment-458 There is a very cultic environment with Amway folks, I think. I really think guys like Mahaney have incorporated Amway tactics into their church system. Demanding respect for the leader...carrying his briefcase, etc...his word is in stone...all this if you want to be in the inner circle except with CJ he claims it is about obedience to God. Neither one is a place for someone who thinks for themselves or studies for themselves. That is why I think CJ focuses on sin so much. it is the hook to keep them in subjection to his teaching. And he does the humility thing really well. It is why they all focus on authority in the Body. They need that to keep followers of men. There is a very cultic environment with Amway folks, I think. I really think guys like Mahaney have incorporated Amway tactics into their church system. Demanding respect for the leader…carrying his briefcase, etc…his word is in stone…all this if you want to be in the inner circle except with CJ he claims it is about obedience to God.

Neither one is a place for someone who thinks for themselves or studies for themselves. That is why I think CJ focuses on sin so much. it is the hook to keep them in subjection to his teaching. And he does the humility thing really well. It is why they all focus on authority in the Body. They need that to keep followers of men.

]]> By: Amanda http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/12/the-scream-of-the-damned-and-the-last-straw/#comment-456 Amanda Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:24:56 +0000 http://thewartburgwatch.com/?p=604#comment-456 Deb, I know that at least one church I previously attended DID have the pastor's conference fees and expenses as a part of the church's annual budget. While that likely is not the case at all churches, it is at some. Deb, I know that at least one church I previously attended DID have the pastor’s conference fees and expenses as a part of the church’s annual budget. While that likely is not the case at all churches, it is at some.

]]> By: Deb http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/12/the-scream-of-the-damned-and-the-last-straw/#comment-455 Deb Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:21:53 +0000 http://thewartburgwatch.com/?p=604#comment-455 And Lydia, the $150 conference fee I mentioned (which is probably closer to $200 now) doesn’t include the cost of the hotel. I guess the Amway people you consulted combined that fee with the hotel room. And Lydia, the $150 conference fee I mentioned (which is probably closer to $200 now) doesn’t include the cost of the hotel. I guess the Amway people you consulted combined that fee with the hotel room.

]]> By: Deb http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/12/the-scream-of-the-damned-and-the-last-straw/#comment-453 Deb Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:05:04 +0000 http://thewartburgwatch.com/?p=604#comment-453 Wow Lydia! I have been gathering 'insider information' about Amway for over 20 years, but you've got me beat! You said: "The church pays the pastor's way. Not sure about all the wanna be seminary students and how they can possibly afford this stuff. For a conference like we are describing, they have to pay for their own room, right? Travel and meals. It can easily get up to almost a 1000 bucks before it is over." The wanna be seminary students probably do what the struggling Amway distributors do -- they pack 'em in to the hotel rooms with 8 or 10 people to a room... Thanks for the info Lydia. I think we are getting a behind the scenes look at Christian conferences. Whatever happened to the pastors whose primary concern was to nurture their own flock? Times they are a changin' but definitely NOT for the better! Wow Lydia! I have been gathering ‘insider information’ about Amway for over 20 years, but you’ve got me beat!

You said:

“The church pays the pastor’s way. Not sure about all the wanna be seminary students and how they can possibly afford this stuff. For a conference like we are describing, they have to pay for their own room, right? Travel and meals. It can easily get up to almost a 1000 bucks before it is over.”

The wanna be seminary students probably do what the struggling Amway distributors do — they pack ‘em in to the hotel rooms with 8 or 10 people to a room…

Thanks for the info Lydia. I think we are getting a behind the scenes look at Christian conferences. Whatever happened to the pastors whose primary concern was to nurture their own flock? Times they are a changin’ but definitely NOT for the better!

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