You have given us the favorite verse of all those pastors who wish to be in charge and rule over others. It is the crowning verse of many groups that have been reported to have a high degree of spiritual abuse. I think of Sovereign Grace Ministries as one example.

Here is a link to a site that deals with spiritual abuse. http://www.spiritualabuse.org/mywritings/obedience.html

In NH, an elder raped a teen and got her pregnant. She was made to apologize and sent away to have the baby. The pastors and elders colluded. I suppose she could have kept her mouth shut so that she would be a “joy” to her leaders.

Paige Patterson bragged about sending a woman back into an abusive situation and rejoiced when she got two black eyes because hubby showed up at church-click on article on our site regarding Patterson.-we have the transcript. This lady added to Patterson’s joy at the risk of her life.

Then there was the pastor who covered up a sexual molester on his staff. Perhaps people shouldn’t have complained-it kind of upset him.

Then there is the lovely practice of care group leaders in Sovereign Grace churches who write up reports on all members in their small groups. If said member says something judged to be a bit non-supportive to the pastors, a lynch meeting ensues and the person who said things in confidence is raked over the coals, put under discipline, etc.

Then there are the pastors who pursue former members to new churches and call their new pastors and make up hogwash about them being “under discipline.” And elders who spread rumors about people’s marriages being in trouble (happened to me.) Guess we should have given him a hug and let him keep on lying.He would not have had to have the uncomfortableness of being confronted-not a joyful time at all.

And what about Ed Young Jr- of jet and mansions fame. I guess we keep our mouths shut and not upset him because he is really flying around the country to “spread the word.”

I joyfully follow my current pastors as well as some past ones. They have earned it. They are servant leaders who are quick to point out their own failings. They lead humble and modest lives. And, surprise, surprise, the encourage people to speak out and disagree because they get that the Spirit speaks through the members.

Scott, please read the book The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse. It is an excellent resource and clearly shows how some take verses out of context and use them to hurt others. And I pray that you are not such a person who would misuse this verse to hurt others.

Hebrews 13:17 is a wonderful verse; however, it’s extremely important for discerning Christians to be able to recognize a “true leader” who is qualified to keep watch over their souls.

Matthew Henry makes several important points in his commentary of Hebrews 13:17 that address this. Here are the highlights:

“(1.) The duty – to obey them and submit themselves to them. It is not an implicit obedience, or absolute submission, that is here required, but only so far as is agreeable to the mind and will of God revealed in his word…”

(2.) The motives to this duty . . . They have no authority to lord it over the people, but to lead them in the ways of God, by informing and instructing them, explaining the word of God to them, and applying it to their several cases. They are not to make laws of their own, but to interpret the laws of God; nor is their interpretation to be immediately received without examination, but the people must search the scriptures, and so far as the instructions of their ministers are according to that rule they ought to receive them, ‘not as the word of men, but, as they are indeed, the word of God, that works effectually in those that believe’.”

I am well aware of the fact that Hebrews 13:17 is a favorite verse among SGM pastors and one they like to quote to the flock. Here’s the solemn warning to anyone professing to be a leader:

“as those who will give an account.”

Matthew Henry explains that “they must give an account how they have discharged their duty, and what has become of the souls committed to their trust, whether any have been lost through their neglect, and whether any of them have been brought in and built up under their ministry”.

So how are C.J. Mahaney and his apostles doing in this regard? If I were them, I’d be extremely concerned about having to give an account to Almighty God for their leadership (or lack thereof).

Great comment.

Today’s abusive churches use “sin” as the control factor for their flock. The pastors get a pass (and how sinful they can be has been well documented here as well as other blogs) and the flock should just shut up because they are so controlled by sin that they have nothing to add to the discussion.

I think it is important for folks to read beyond the cross to the Resurrection but many people just read books like “the Cross Centered Life and get mired in pain and self doubt.

I pray God allows this “victory” mentality to replace the tendency of many believers toward self-condemnation, doubt, and defeatism.

“Personally, I’d like to see a lot less book reading and a lot more Bible reading.”

What a concept.

Halfway through my sophomore year, I changed majors to both English and Economics. I credit God for influencing me to choose English. How I graduated on time without attending any summer school still amazes me. Because I had to write so many term papers for my English courses, I really had to work on my writing skills. I owe much of my writing ability to my professors because they really challenged me.

Before I married my husband, I worked as a Trust Officer at a large bank for almost 5 years, and I had to write important letters to clients, attorneys, CPAs, etc. All of the correspondence was kept in trust files for years and years. I believe that written communication skills are often sadly lacking in the business world, so I made it a priority to write professional letters. I even edited some of my colleagues’ important correspondence.

In the fall of 1987 I was accepted into the Executive MBA program at UNC-Chapel Hill, where I attended classes in the evenings. My husband and I married in 1988, and I stopped working; however, I continued pursuing my MBA, earning my degree in May 1990. Two wonderful daughters came along, and I have been a stay-at-home mom for all these years.

In June my “baby” will be graduating from high school, then she will be going off to college in August. Next year will be a radical change for my husband and me (the empty nest), but we continue to be extremely close after all these years, and we have some very special years ahead of us.

I have always had a passion to write, and I am in awe of this new communication tool called the internet. I give my Heavenly Father all the praise and glory for how He has gifted me to communicate through the written word.

Please continue to comment here. We love hearing from our readers!

I couldn’t agree with you more! It’s not a coincidence that we named our blog “The Wartburg Watch”. Martin Luther is a hero to both Dee and me. I hope you will continue to comment here because what you have shared is extremely important.

As an attorney and as one who has studied how we “know” what we know (epistemology), and who has also had to understand what we mean by “truth” (everyone has a differing perspective and innocent people get convicted), I find that the concept of sovereignty is terribly misunderstood. Sovereignty is the having of the power to reign by nature of who the sovereign is and who the subject is. It is a relationship between two parties or entities or persons that gives one authority or power over another. However, sovereignty is not necessarily the exercise of that authority or power. That is, the sovereignty exists whether used or not.

In human relationships, unused power tends to erode over time, as the subject and third parties will come to reject or doubt the legitimacy of power. However, in the case of the human and Almighty God, there is no question as to the Creator’s legitimate possession of sovereignty.

God’s use of his sovereignty is mitigated by his love. Hence, the offer of salvation, which is the replacement of sovereign power of justice with love and grace, to which we can respond freely. Thus, the frequent biblical implication that it is by his love (aka grace) that we are saved, not by his sovereignty, but both preserve us once we have said that Jesus is Lord.

Piper picked up on this and preached it at a Resolve conference a few years ago. It is simply shock jock preaching.

Ironically, I have a problem with the word ‘damned’. We tend to think of it in biblical terms as final. Yes, He was cursed for that time but NOT damned. He was victorious over DEATH for us all. That is not damnation.

“We are thinking about willing the blog to you in the event of any trials of heresy and subsequent burning by the YE crowd.”

I’d be honored. But I need a partner in crime. Think the other German speaking, Star Trek knowledgeable, teen would be up to it?

Oh and you are completely right about the Vulcan thing. Considering I can name every Voyager episode from the opening credits I am completely ashamed of myself.

Did you ever see the episode where Nelix left and Tuvok moved his foot in a little “dance”.? I was almost moved to tears! *Sigh* Blame my mother. I think it was passed on through the genes.