Comments on: LIVING THE CROSS CENTERED LIFE: A “Deficient Gospel” http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/10/living-the-cross-centered-life-a-%e2%80%9cdeficient-gospel%e2%80%9d/ Dissecting Christian trends. Posting Monday,Wednesday, Thursday and Friday Wed, 08 Feb 2012 12:52:09 -0500 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: dee http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/10/living-the-cross-centered-life-a-%e2%80%9cdeficient-gospel%e2%80%9d/#comment-3286 dee Fri, 07 May 2010 20:31:05 +0000 http://thewartburgwatch.com/?p=562#comment-3286 Dave This is not directed at you. Just because you like a book, doesn't mean that you are a Mahaniac.We are trying to get our archives transferred, you will see what we mean by this. Mahania is a syndrome marked by excessive devotion to Mahaney et al, while ignoring the problems of his thinking and how it is lived out in his denomination or "family of churches" if you like. He utilizes the cross as a means of control of his followers. He stops them at the foot of the cross, lets them know what wretched sinners they are and how they have very little to contribute to the polity of his church. He, and his guys, somehow get a pass on the effects of sin and therefore need no input from the sinful little guy. Please refer to SGM Survivors or SGM Refuge for a complete understanding of this ministry which we believe has serious issues.YOu may find it interesting how he uses some of the concepts in his book to cause pain in his people. Thank you for your question. Dave
This is not directed at you. Just because you like a book, doesn’t mean that you are a Mahaniac.We are trying to get our archives transferred, you will see what we mean by this. Mahania is a syndrome marked by excessive devotion to Mahaney et al, while ignoring the problems of his thinking and how it is lived out in his denomination or “family of churches” if you like.

He utilizes the cross as a means of control of his followers. He stops them at the foot of the cross, lets them know what wretched sinners they are and how they have very little to contribute to the polity of his church. He, and his guys, somehow get a pass on the effects of sin and therefore need no input from the sinful little guy.

Please refer to SGM Survivors or SGM Refuge for a complete understanding of this ministry which we believe has serious issues.YOu may find it interesting how he uses some of the concepts in his book to cause pain in his people.

Thank you for your question.

]]> By: Dave Joyce http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/10/living-the-cross-centered-life-a-%e2%80%9cdeficient-gospel%e2%80%9d/#comment-3280 Dave Joyce Fri, 07 May 2010 19:08:54 +0000 http://thewartburgwatch.com/?p=562#comment-3280 Why start out your post by calling me a Mahaniac just because I've been blessed by CJ's book? Why start out your post by calling me a Mahaniac just because I’ve been blessed by CJ’s book?

]]> By: dee http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/10/living-the-cross-centered-life-a-%e2%80%9cdeficient-gospel%e2%80%9d/#comment-1030 dee Sun, 21 Feb 2010 04:11:25 +0000 http://thewartburgwatch.com/?p=562#comment-1030 P That is the point. You experience much joy in the Cross. CJ and others take away the joy. I am with you. Until I realized how others misuse this Good News, the Cross was, and is, a source of joy. But for those who are oppressed, the Cross is used to bring chronic shame and sadness. You mentioned what CJ believes about the resurrection and that the Cross is not that helpful to us without the resurrection. Could you please expand about what he believes in this regard? P

That is the point. You experience much joy in the Cross. CJ and others take away the joy. I am with you. Until I realized how others misuse this Good News, the Cross was, and is, a source of joy. But for those who are oppressed, the Cross is used to bring chronic shame and sadness.

You mentioned what CJ believes about the resurrection and that the Cross is not that helpful to us without the resurrection. Could you please expand about what he believes in this regard?

]]> By: P http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/10/living-the-cross-centered-life-a-%e2%80%9cdeficient-gospel%e2%80%9d/#comment-1027 P Sun, 21 Feb 2010 03:58:02 +0000 http://thewartburgwatch.com/?p=562#comment-1027 I think it's possible to have joy and still recognize the pivotal moment that the cross was. Regardless of what CJ may or may not have done, emphasizing the cross as the seminal moment when our sin was paid for has provided me much joy over the years. I think it’s possible to have joy and still recognize the pivotal moment that the cross was. Regardless of what CJ may or may not have done, emphasizing the cross as the seminal moment when our sin was paid for has provided me much joy over the years.

]]> By: dee http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/10/living-the-cross-centered-life-a-%e2%80%9cdeficient-gospel%e2%80%9d/#comment-971 dee Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:39:47 +0000 http://thewartburgwatch.com/?p=562#comment-971 P We know that CJ believes in the resurrection. But, we believe there is a deeper reason for his insistence on only emphasizing the Cross prior to the resurrection. Please don't take this personally, but your first statement says it all. CJ agrees....that without the resurrection, Christ's death "isn't that helpful" (your words). The resurrection is everything as is the cross as is His birth as is the Second Coming. They need to be viewed as a whole. How sad and limited to emphasize only one aspect of this Miraculous Coming. Isn't it cool that the Sinless One loved us enough to spend 33 years with us? How about the Omnipotent One becoming a Vulnerable Baby? Stop at the Cross and continue on. We, at TWW, believe that CJ uses the Cross to emphasize our sins in order to control his ministry. CJ has a history of involvement in controlling ministries such as the shepherding movement. There has been so much pain and sadness as indicated by the number of survivor sites. We want to emphasize the Good News to the sad and beaten down. Christ overcame death on the Cross and we are FREE!!!!! And, it is important to emphasize the Great Joy.There is much to be merry about. My question for our readers is this? Are you merry and joyful? Do you look forward to your church services and Bible studies or have you become burdened trying to live up to a perfect standard and trying to deal with chronic guilt imposed by your leaders? Don't! Join the Fellowship of Merry Christians!!!! P
We know that CJ believes in the resurrection. But, we believe there is a deeper reason for his insistence on only emphasizing the Cross prior to the resurrection. Please don’t take this personally, but your first statement says it all. CJ agrees….that without the resurrection, Christ’s death “isn’t that helpful” (your words).

The resurrection is everything as is the cross as is His birth as is the Second Coming. They need to be viewed as a whole. How sad and limited to emphasize only one aspect of this Miraculous Coming. Isn’t it cool that the Sinless One loved us enough to spend 33 years with us? How about the Omnipotent One becoming a Vulnerable Baby? Stop at the Cross and continue on.

We, at TWW, believe that CJ uses the Cross to emphasize our sins in order to control his ministry. CJ has a history of involvement in controlling ministries such as the shepherding movement. There has been so much pain and sadness as indicated by the number of survivor sites. We want to emphasize the Good News to the sad and beaten down. Christ overcame death on the Cross and we are FREE!!!!! And, it is important to emphasize the Great Joy.There is much to be merry about.

My question for our readers is this? Are you merry and joyful? Do you look forward to your church services and Bible studies or have you become burdened trying to live up to a perfect standard and trying to deal with chronic guilt imposed by your leaders? Don’t! Join the Fellowship of Merry Christians!!!!

]]> By: P http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/10/living-the-cross-centered-life-a-%e2%80%9cdeficient-gospel%e2%80%9d/#comment-917 P Sat, 20 Feb 2010 04:20:04 +0000 http://thewartburgwatch.com/?p=562#comment-917 CJ agrees that without the resurrection Christ death isn't that helpful for us. I'm not so sure that the fact that he put a period after Christ dying for our sins is a denial of the resurrection. I think it could be a statement that the cross was the moment that our sin was actually dealt with. The resurrection was an affirmation of the accomplishment of redemption, not the actual accomplishment itself. I think CJ emphasizes the cross because it was on the cross that the redemption was actually accomplished, thus the pivotal moment in our salvation, without which the resurrection would be insignificant. Having said that, I agree that we need to be careful not to so emphasize the cross that we neglect the resurrection. The resurrection shouldn't be something limited to Easter Sunday, but something we celebrate year round. CJ agrees that without the resurrection Christ death isn’t that helpful for us. I’m not so sure that the fact that he put a period after Christ dying for our sins is a denial of the resurrection. I think it could be a statement that the cross was the moment that our sin was actually dealt with. The resurrection was an affirmation of the accomplishment of redemption, not the actual accomplishment itself. I think CJ emphasizes the cross because it was on the cross that the redemption was actually accomplished, thus the pivotal moment in our salvation, without which the resurrection would be insignificant.

Having said that, I agree that we need to be careful not to so emphasize the cross that we neglect the resurrection. The resurrection shouldn’t be something limited to Easter Sunday, but something we celebrate year round.

]]> By: Deb http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/10/living-the-cross-centered-life-a-%e2%80%9cdeficient-gospel%e2%80%9d/#comment-847 Deb Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:36:47 +0000 http://thewartburgwatch.com/?p=562#comment-847 I just posted a comment over at SGM Survivors (www.sgmsurvivors.com) that ties in with this post, and I thought I'd share it with our readers here at TWW. It's comment #173 under the heading "SHOW ME THE MONEY". Here it is: Deb February 19th, 2010 at 8:15 am Claireon said: “In his youth, Mahaney was a drug pusher. People bought a substance from him that altered their reality, provided an escape, and kept them coming back for more. In order to sell drugs, he had to have an awareness of the effect drugs had on people, and knew how to keep them interested so that they would purchase more – from him.” Claireon, I knew about this, but I have just had an epiphany! The way you have described C.J. has suddenly allowed me to see what’s truly going on in SGM. Instead of pushing drugs, C.J. is now pushing a deficient gospel, which isn’t the “REAL” gospel. He has created a dependency in SGMers by pushing “indwelling sin” – his current “drug” of choice. And it’s truly mind-altering! Emphasizing ONLY Jesus’ death and not His resurrection is a HALF-TRUTH, and I believe a half-truth is always a LIE! I just posted a comment over at SGM Survivors (www.sgmsurvivors.com) that ties in with this post, and I thought I’d share it with our readers here at TWW. It’s comment #173 under the heading “SHOW ME THE MONEY”.

Here it is:

Deb
February 19th, 2010 at 8:15 am

Claireon said:
“In his youth, Mahaney was a drug pusher. People bought a substance from him that altered their reality, provided an escape, and kept them coming back for more. In order to sell drugs, he had to have an awareness of the effect drugs had on people, and knew how to keep them interested so that they would purchase more – from him.”

Claireon,

I knew about this, but I have just had an epiphany!

The way you have described C.J. has suddenly allowed me to see what’s truly going on in SGM. Instead of pushing drugs, C.J. is now pushing a deficient gospel, which isn’t the “REAL” gospel. He has created a dependency in SGMers by pushing “indwelling sin” – his current “drug” of choice. And it’s truly mind-altering!

Emphasizing ONLY Jesus’ death and not His resurrection is a HALF-TRUTH, and I believe a half-truth is always a LIE!

]]> By: Deb http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/10/living-the-cross-centered-life-a-%e2%80%9cdeficient-gospel%e2%80%9d/#comment-843 Deb Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:53:49 +0000 http://thewartburgwatch.com/?p=562#comment-843 Dan, You have truly blessed my heart with your comment. The Holy Spirit was pressing me to write about SGM's "deficient" gospel, and now I understand why. Dan,

You have truly blessed my heart with your comment. The Holy Spirit was pressing me to write about SGM’s “deficient” gospel, and now I understand why.

]]> By: Dan http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/10/living-the-cross-centered-life-a-%e2%80%9cdeficient-gospel%e2%80%9d/#comment-833 Dan Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:42:16 +0000 http://thewartburgwatch.com/?p=562#comment-833 I hope you don't mind but I'm quoting you on my Twitter! You can't imagine how encouraging it is finding this amazing writing about the importance of neglecting the resurrection! Having spent 2 years in SGM in England, I grew so concerned at the truncating of the gospel. Even on Easter Sunday misty-eyed songs were sung about the old rugged Cross! So the quote I loved, loved, loved was; "You see, a crucified “Savior' ... is of no use unless He is resurrected". So true! Thank you and keep up your amazing work! I hope you don’t mind but I’m quoting you on my Twitter! You can’t imagine how encouraging it is finding this amazing writing about the importance of neglecting the resurrection!

Having spent 2 years in SGM in England, I grew so concerned at the truncating of the gospel. Even on Easter Sunday misty-eyed songs were sung about the old rugged Cross!

So the quote I loved, loved, loved was;

“You see, a crucified “Savior’ … is of no use unless He is resurrected”.

So true! Thank you and keep up your amazing work!

]]> By: Arce http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/02/10/living-the-cross-centered-life-a-%e2%80%9cdeficient-gospel%e2%80%9d/#comment-421 Arce Fri, 12 Feb 2010 01:26:33 +0000 http://thewartburgwatch.com/?p=562#comment-421 Of course. As an attorney and as one who has studied how we "know" what we know (epistemology), and who has also had to understand what we mean by "truth", I find that the concept of sovereignty is terribly misunderstood. Sovereignty is the having of the power to reign by nature of who the sovereign is and who the subject is. It is a relationship between two parties or entities or persons that gives one authority or power over another. However, sovereignty is not necessarily the exercise of that authority or power. That is, the sovereignty exists whether used or not. In human relationships, unused power tends to erode over time, as the subject and third parties will come to reject or doubt the legitimacy of power. However, in the case of the human and Almighty God, there is no question as to the Creator's legitimacy possession of sovereignty. God's use of his sovereignty is mitigated by his love. Hence, the offer of salvation, which is the replacement of sovereign power of justice with the power of love. Thus, the frequent biblical implication that it is by his love that we are saved, not by his sovereignty, but both preserve us once we have said that Jesus is Lord. Of course. As an attorney and as one who has studied how we “know” what we know (epistemology), and who has also had to understand what we mean by “truth”, I find that the concept of sovereignty is terribly misunderstood. Sovereignty is the having of the power to reign by nature of who the sovereign is and who the subject is. It is a relationship between two parties or entities or persons that gives one authority or power over another. However, sovereignty is not necessarily the exercise of that authority or power. That is, the sovereignty exists whether used or not.

In human relationships, unused power tends to erode over time, as the subject and third parties will come to reject or doubt the legitimacy of power. However, in the case of the human and Almighty God, there is no question as to the Creator’s legitimacy possession of sovereignty.

God’s use of his sovereignty is mitigated by his love. Hence, the offer of salvation, which is the replacement of sovereign power of justice with the power of love. Thus, the frequent biblical implication that it is by his love that we are saved, not by his sovereignty, but both preserve us once we have said that Jesus is Lord.

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